Wanted/For Sale Section to Change in New Year

I feel that is a great thing to do . if you can please look into what is being posting .things like rings,laptops , timeshare and more for cues. I really feel ths can be a down fall for this fourm. If this going to be a billiard SALEING LOCATION then lets just buy sale or trade billiards only.
i'm just saying.
 
The point by AZ is revenue. Other cue makers pay for adds or banners. It would appear the best way for AZ to come out would be to require a "dealer license" for anyone who sells more than three cues per year. Just my opinion, but it works for car traders. For the average member, three cues a year should be easy to stay under. I can see where they are coming from when people can sell 200 cues a year on this site and it costs them nothing.

Maybe make a "For Sale by Individual" section and a "For Sale by Dealer" similar to Craigslist or most publications. Then AZ could charge a fee for use of the "For Sale by Dealer" section.
 
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How about a "Custom Cuemaker" membership, equivalent to the club membership, but allows the cuemaker to post in a "New Cues For-Sale" section? Same thing for dealers, "Custom Cue Dealer" membership, maybe a little more expensive, that allows them access to the same "New Cues For-Sale" section.

And please specify that "test-hit" by the cuemaker or dealer does not qualify the cue as used. That's an idiotic attempt to bypass the rules, and everyone knows there are plenty of dumb-asses that would try it.
 
The point by AZ is revenue. Other cue makers pay for adds or banners. It would appear the best way for AZ to come out would be to require a "dealer license" for anyone who sells more than three cues per year. Just my opinion, but it works for car traders. For the average member, three cues a year should be easy to stay under. I can see where they are coming from when people can sell 200 cues a year on this site and it costs them nothing.

Maybe make a "For Sale by Individual" section and a "For Sale by Dealer" similar to Craigslist or most publications. Then AZ could charge a fee for use of the "For Sale by Dealer" section.

where do you get a dealer license for pool cues?

Look, why not just charge a listing fee,,,,,,say 3 bucks, 5 bucks, whatever,,,,,1st come first serve,,,,,,,,listing retires in say 14 days, or 30 days, whatever,,,,,,,just let it work it's way out through arbitration, no need to bump threads, ever, because they scroll as old threads expire, so everyone gets their turn on the front page, So pay a set fee, for set timeframe, listing goes to the end, and as it gets older it works it's way to the front,,,,,,,,,like ebay's ending soonest filter. If the item doesn't sell, then the seller has the chance to repay, relist, and go back to the end of the pack, or just not list it again. Also, if an item sells, the OP should have the ability to end the thread, so it drops out and the section is never cluttered with sold items.

This really ain't that complicated folks,,,,,,,,
 
Yep, listing fee would work as well. That way it doesn't limit the membership and AZ still gets paid. Also, a customer who received a custom cue and didn't like it at all could still sell it as test-hit without having to buy a membership or ad.
 
Folks,

Sorry that some of you feel we are hurting the community. If all community members who are willing to help cover the legal bills that this section cost us will kindly step forward with a check perhaps we can fulfill your wishes. We will absorb the advertising losses if you will cover the legal fees. At this moment this bill is several thousand dollars and rising. When two of you get caught up in a hassle we wind up in court and shutting down commercial sales here will end that bleeding.

We are more than willing to post a link to any new site that any of you wishes to create where folks can buy and sell new equipment. Some of you get together, create the site, and we will promote it for you. But this cannot happen on our servers or be in any way our responsibility.

Warning: If you do this get ready for lawyer letters arriving regularly in your mail box. This country has gone lawsuit crazy and it will hit you quickly. This is the ONLY forum section that has us incurring legal fees and we just can't handle the hassle or the cash load.

And for those of you who have asked, the definition of a new cue is that it is a new cue. Unhit. Or sold by the maker or his agent. But do not attempt to use this as a legal definition. There is always a way to play the rules. We are not playing. Bottom line is if we feel a post violates event the spirit of the rules we will remove it. We have NO choice in this matter.

Now, if one of you is an attorney who is willing to defend us in court pro bono every time we get a summons, this could also fend this off. Anyone ready to step up? We will keep you busy.
 
I wanna know who is selling 200 cues a year here?.... C'mon show yourself... :D

Seriously, anyone that thinks that dealers are raking in mad cash are really just uneducated. (don't count the island that Jamie, Kenny, Bill, Sean, and I just purchased :p) Does a dealer make money, sure. But in the long run probably less than lets say a guy that got two cues from Dennis Searing and flipped them in three days.

What I think will happen, is when certain people are not allowed to post cues, cases, or whatever, they will decline the club membership. In the short term there may be a dip in funds to AZ.

It's a slippery slope, for sure. Some of us that have club memberships do so in support of the use of these forums.

You want to fix this section...

Wanted for sale
- Custom cues
- Production Cues (Joss, Schon, etc.. sorry, they are what they are)
- Vintage cues (BBC's, Szams, Bushkas, Palmers, Paradises, any cue made up till 1979)
- Custom Cases
- Production cases
- Tables
- Memorabilia
- Accessories such as tips/chalk etc...

ads MUST have the following... cue specs AND price... must indicate if trade is OK. If there is MORE information than there is no reason to ask ????'s in the thread.

This will have an immediate impact on the clutter here. So much so, bumping product will have limited effect.

(away from WFS)
Cues
Add an ID section

JV
 
Folks,

Sorry that some of you feel we are hurting the community. If all community members who are willing to help cover the legal bills that this section cost us will kindly step forward with a check perhaps we can fulfill your wishes. We will absorb the advertising losses if you will cover the legal fees. At this moment this bill is several thousand dollars and rising. When two of you get caught up in a hassle we wind up in court and shutting down commercial sales here will end that bleeding.

We are more than willing to post a link to any new site that any of you wishes to create where folks can buy and sell new equipment. Some of you get together, create the site, and we will promote it for you. But this cannot happen on our servers or be in any way our responsibility.

Warning: If you do this get ready for lawyer letters arriving regularly in your mail box. This country has gone lawsuit crazy and it will hit you quickly. This is the ONLY forum section that has us incurring legal fees and we just can't handle the hassle or the cash load.

And for those of you who have asked, the definition of a new cue is that it is a new cue. Unhit. Or sold by the maker or his agent. But do not attempt to use this as a legal definition. There is always a way to play the rules. We are not playing. Bottom line is if we feel a post violates event the spirit of the rules we will remove it. We have NO choice in this matter.

Now, if one of you is an attorney who is willing to defend us in court pro bono every time we get a summons, this could also fend this off. Anyone ready to step up? We will keep you busy.

Jerry,
This is a different animal all together. I think we would be interested in an example or two because I don't understand how a listing would open AZ up to legal ramifications. It's not like you're advertising massages or adult services. (or am I not privy to that section :) )

JV
 
Jerry,
This is a different animal all together. I think we would be interested in an example or two because I don't understand how a listing would open AZ up to legal ramifications. It's not like you're advertising massages or adult services. (or am I not privy to that section :) )

JV

Barringer.....
 
Folks,

Sorry that some of you feel we are hurting the community. If all community members who are willing to help cover the legal bills that this section cost us will kindly step forward with a check perhaps we can fulfill your wishes. We will absorb the advertising losses if you will cover the legal fees. At this moment this bill is several thousand dollars and rising. When two of you get caught up in a hassle we wind up in court and shutting down commercial sales here will end that bleeding.

We are more than willing to post a link to any new site that any of you wishes to create where folks can buy and sell new equipment. Some of you get together, create the site, and we will promote it for you. But this cannot happen on our servers or be in any way our responsibility.

Warning: If you do this get ready for lawyer letters arriving regularly in your mail box. This country has gone lawsuit crazy and it will hit you quickly. This is the ONLY forum section that has us incurring legal fees and we just can't handle the hassle or the cash load.

And for those of you who have asked, the definition of a new cue is that it is a new cue. Unhit. Or sold by the maker or his agent. But do not attempt to use this as a legal definition. There is always a way to play the rules. We are not playing. Bottom line is if we feel a post violates event the spirit of the rules we will remove it. We have NO choice in this matter.

Now, if one of you is an attorney who is willing to defend us in court pro bono every time we get a summons, this could also fend this off. Anyone ready to step up? We will keep you busy.

Thank you Jerry.

I was just explaining to Russ (poolhustler) last night that all of us participating in this discussion (myself included) were all figuring your motivations were the same as our motivations. I for example, think the For Sale forum is clogged up with nonsense listings, so when you guys change things, I assume you are trying to fix the problems I see, and then criticize you for not fixing it very well.

I was right while I was wrong.

Thanks again

Kevin
 
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Folks,

Sorry that some of you feel we are hurting the community. If all community members who are willing to help cover the legal bills that this section cost us will kindly step forward with a check perhaps we can fulfill your wishes. We will absorb the advertising losses if you will cover the legal fees. At this moment this bill is several thousand dollars and rising. When two of you get caught up in a hassle we wind up in court and shutting down commercial sales here will end that bleeding.

We are more than willing to post a link to any new site that any of you wishes to create where folks can buy and sell new equipment. Some of you get together, create the site, and we will promote it for you. But this cannot happen on our servers or be in any way our responsibility.

Warning: If you do this get ready for lawyer letters arriving regularly in your mail box. This country has gone lawsuit crazy and it will hit you quickly. This is the ONLY forum section that has us incurring legal fees and we just can't handle the hassle or the cash load.

And for those of you who have asked, the definition of a new cue is that it is a new cue. Unhit. Or sold by the maker or his agent. But do not attempt to use this as a legal definition. There is always a way to play the rules. We are not playing. Bottom line is if we feel a post violates event the spirit of the rules we will remove it. We have NO choice in this matter.

Now, if one of you is an attorney who is willing to defend us in court pro bono every time we get a summons, this could also fend this off. Anyone ready to step up? We will keep you busy.


It would have been much more helpful to the community if you explained you position in the first place rather than coming back at us with a sarcastic and demeaning post like this.

These are many, many forums much larger than AZB that have For Sale Sections that are run smoothly with reasonable rules in place. Your issues are not unique. How do the other forums do it?
 
It would have been much more helpful to the community if you explained you position in the first place rather than coming back at us with a sarcastic and demeaning post like this.

These are many, many forums much larger than AZB that have For Sale Sections that are run smoothly with reasonable rules in place. Your issues are not unique. How do the other forums do it?

Jamie

I didn't see it as either sarcastic or demeaning. I think Jerry was honestly explaining to us his reasons for the change (which none of us were addressing with our helpful suggestions at all). What did I miss?

Thanks

Kevin
 
We are more than willing to post a link to any new site that any of you wishes to create where folks can buy and sell new equipment. Some of you get together, create the site, and we will promote it for you. But this cannot happen on our servers or be in any way our responsibility.

Warning: If you do this get ready for lawyer letters arriving regularly in your mail box. This country has gone lawsuit crazy and it will hit you quickly. This is the ONLY forum section that has us incurring legal fees and we just can't handle the hassle or the cash load.

I'm not scared.
The new for sale site is here and already underway.

http://lpcustomcues.forumotion.com/f5-buy-sell-trade

Jerry - Post this link, promote this link, as stated above

Thanks
Lee
 
Other than the Barringer issue, I think the overall issue is the sale of brand new production cues. The paying advertisers are trying to sell those items too, and they want certain prices for the merchandise.

In that respect, I think things would be easy...simply ban the sale of brand new production cues and cases. If someone breaks the rules, delete the thread...if they do it again, ban them.

I don't know of any advertisers on AZ who are the sole promoter of a custom cue maker. I would not think that selling their cues new would be an issue. In fact, being unable to promote cues from small, new and "up and coming" cuemakers would kill them.

Yes, many people are overly litigious...they know that, even if you win the case, it costs you time and money to defend yourself. Big corporate companies can use that to push little people around. The economy is down...pool is dying (I am helping close a pool room down right now after 23 years), and I guess the big boys are feeling the heat, if they are worried about our little community.

Joe
 
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Thank you Jerry.

I was just explaining to Russ (poolhustler) last night that all of us participating in this discussion (myself included) were all figuring your motivations were the same as our motivations. I for example, think the For Sale forum is clogged up with nonsense listings, so when you guys change things, I assume you are trying to fix the problems I see, and then criticize you for not fixing it very well.

I was right while I was wrong.

Thanks again

Kevin

Sorry... uncalled for comment. I have the belt :)
 
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If I were to buy an ad here on AZ, I would buy it to promote a "brand name", not to sell.

My believe has always been that the paying advertisers buy ads here to promote their "brand name" vs. actually trying to sell their products. They have dealers to do that and would prefer that process. I know I would if I were the manufacturer.

It's completely useless for dealers to buy ads here to sell anything. This is a fact. Just look around in this section. I could easily name 20 people in this section who fit "dealers" description. How many have ads running at this moment? ZERO.

I would be happy to share my thoughts here, but it would take several hundreds of pages to get my point across.

If Mike and Jerry want to hear my inputs, I will spend a few hours with them.



Other than the Barringer issue, I think the overall issue is the sale of brand new production cues. The paying advertisers are trying to sell those items too, and they want certain prices for the merchandise.

In that respect, I think things would be easy...simply ban the sale of brand new production cues and cases. If someone breaks the rules, delete the thread...if they do it again, ban them.

I don't know of any advertisers on AZ who are the sole promoter of a custom cue maker. I would not think that selling their cues new would be an issue. In fact, being unable to promote cues from small, new and "up and coming" cuemakers would kill them.

Yes, many people are overly litigious...they know that, even if you win the case, it costs you time and money to defend yourself. Big corporate companies can use that to push little people around. The economy is down...pool is dying (I am helping close a pool room down right now after 23 years), and I guess the big boys are feeling the heat, if they are worried about our little community.

Joe
 
Barringer.....

This would be unfortunate. I also know of another dealer that when the excrement hits the rotary ocillator the threads get pulled very quickly. Now here is what I have to say about that.

If the opinions of others, are false, a reputable man faces the with courage and conviction. If they are truths, his only recourse is to get them pulled, and I guess that requires legal action. Again, this is unfortunate.

This is also why defense attorneys make a ton of money. They use the law to squash the truths of their clients. This is so these people can continue to defraud, hurt, or whatever their criminal forte' may be.

You know, makes you wonder how an Angies list can stay in business....

JV
 
This threa is 8 pages deep and I have no interest in reading it. Nothing said in the first 2 pages will help any situation here on AZ.

One I can hit 1 ball with an uncalled cue and it's technically used.

Two if you think by limiting dealers from posting cues is helping this site you are sadly mistaken. I bet 98% of people log on to see the 3-4-5000$ cues they can never afford.

Third. There are many cues that are 5 years old or more that sell everyday that could be considered "new" bc they haven't seen playing action. However. Once you drive a car off the lot it isn't new anymore.

Once again. I feel this change does nothing to help just will cloudy up the waters and give the newly appointed rules police something else to nit pick on an be wrong about.
 
Jerry, for future reference in terms of the legal issues can't you put in a disclosure covering yourself and AZ?

Example:

Any transactions, comments, or links posted are the sole responsibility of the buyers and sellers. AZ Billiards assumes no responsibility for anything posted in this section and it's ramafications. Buyers and sellers choosing to do business here are doing so at their own risk.

Just a rough draft but something like that.
 
Bartering and charity

I have 100% feedback. But I have only sold two items on AZ ever for which I was actually the one benefitting. One was a cue/case that I sold for less than what I paid, and a rack that sold for less than what the materials cost me. All other transactions were me selling items for another person, or me selling my own items for those in need with direct payment to the needy party.
What is my point? If I find a cue for, say, $50 and someone on AZ wants it for $250, then the money goes directly to the person in need and it is their responsibility to pay the man. This is an easy way for me to give charitably directly to a human being who will receive 100% of the money rather than a big organization that pays execs and does not weed out freeloaders who don't really need charity. A am no longer affiliated with any book authors, and I am out of cues to sell. But part of putting my hand-made racks on here is for my friends on AZ to appreciate. Some people want to buy them. So now I will not know how to post photos of my workmanship without it being considered something commercial. But I do appreciate AZBilliards and how it is run, so I have no complaints.
 
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