could Xiaoting Pan compete with the Mens pros if...

Even then it doesn't make sense..... Bart threw out the challenge, he doesn't even like travelling across the US to play the top men, much less China.

Assuming that a player like Fu Xiao Fang would love to travel to the US to play in some strange location against someone she probably never heard of for an amount of money that is insubstantial compared to her sponsorships and personal business interests then that makes a lot of sense.

But that doesn't make any sense at all.
 
That's just unacceptable. No one should have to die because of the lighting in a pool tournament.

saw it happen once, poor bastard was using one of those old aluminium pool cues and hit the bulb with it while playing a rest shot.:p
 
If Xiaoting Pan had Shane Van Boening or Charlie Bryant breaking for her would she be able to compete at 9 Ball with the top men pros and if no they why? Also John Schmidt once mentioned that to nullify the break a little it might be good to have a rule where if you make a ball off the break in 9 or 10 ball your opponent has to push out every time. It would slow the game down but would also even out the field a little.

i think the only way to factually support either side of the argument is if someone posted an Accustats average for her and the top 10 male players (matches won of course)
Top male players are capable of scoring 1000's or close to when in high gear. Does anyone know what Pan's best Accustat in a match is?

that's a pretty tall order, for Pan. i don't think she's any Babe Zaharias.
 
I guess my post came across the wrong way. I'm saying that no woman has a chance against you in a race to 100 and I want to bet your side.....I have no doubt you bet your own, I was hypothetically just saying I would want half your action for all we can get in the middle.

my bad i took it the wrong way,
 
my bad i took it the wrong way,
No sweat...How's your straight pool game? I think I would still like your end in an all around against Jeanette. Maybe 10 Ball, One hole, Straight Pool, and Banks. She might do ok in the banks, but everyone seems to think she would own you in straight pool. I'm not convinced.
 
No sweat...How's your straight pool game? I think I would still like your end in an all around against Jeanette. Maybe 10 Ball, One hole, Straight Pool, and Banks. She might do ok in the banks, but everyone seems to think she would own you in straight pool. I'm not convinced.

she has no chance in any game but 14.1.
i have never played 1 person 14.1.
 
i think the only way to factually support either side of the argument is if someone posted an Accustats average for her and the top 10 male players (matches won of course)

That would not work either. The men play a very different style of safety game and kicking/jumping game then the women which would warp the stats that the women usually see as a "successful" safe. Watching Pan or Simeng you can see them often playing very simply chip safeties and simply playing distance safeties because against the opponents they are playing those are good enough most of the time. Against the top men those safeties are useless, they are going to see themselves buried under 3 balls or they are going to see the male player stroke in a bank and go on to run a 4-pack after that "safety" that would normally have worked for that female in the competition she is normally used to playing.

A safety that Ga Young Kim is going to play on you is on average going to be alot less brutal then one you are going to see Souquet stick you into. That simple safety played against Ga Young Kim might work, against Souquet that simple safety is going to likely see you coming back to the table in jail or not getting back to the table at all.

All of that warps the accustats. A person will generally get a higher accustat when playing a weaker player because against a top pro you are getting nothing easy to start with, guys are not jawing balls or blowing safeties and giving you stuff like that as your first shot to start to run some balls. I have seen b-level amature players get 0 accustats against top pros and not really even do anything wrong. They lose a coin toss, get a 5-pack put on them right off the hop, then they get to come to a table where the pro made a ball but had no shot so they played safe, the player kicks 3 rails to hit the ball, hits it, sells out, and is down 7-0 before they get back to the table again. Now they have the start on a dry break but the 1 is on the head rail and the cueball down near the rack, at this point they are shell shocked, they are out of stroke, they try to run the bankshot to get something going, it jaws, the pro runs the set out, 9-0, the opponent did not make a single shot and NEVER actually shot at an actual non-long bank pot and got a 0 accustat. Thats is a player who against one of his peers might shoot in the .600-.700 range on a good day. That is what playing the elite players can do to you, and when a pro is getting a .900+ accustat against a world class pro they are doing something really hard because the opponent matters in accustats.
 
That would not work either. The men play a very different style of safety game and kicking/jumping game then the women which would warp the stats that the women usually see as a "successful" safe. Watching Pan or Simeng you can see them often playing very simply chip safeties and simply playing distance safeties because against the opponents they are playing those are good enough most of the time. Against the top men those safeties are useless, they are going to see themselves buried under 3 balls or they are going to see the male player stroke in a bank and go on to run a 4-pack after that "safety" that would normally have worked for that female in the competition she is normally used to playing.

A safety that Ga Young Kim is going to play on you is on average going to be alot less brutal then one you are going to see Souquet stick you into. That simple safety played against Ga Young Kim might work, against Souquet that simple safety is going to likely see you coming back to the table in jail or not getting back to the table at all.

All of that warps the accustats. A person will generally get a higher accustat when playing a weaker player because against a top pro you are getting nothing easy to start with, guys are not jawing balls or blowing safeties and giving you stuff like that as your first shot to start to run some balls. I have seen b-level amature players get 0 accustats against top pros and not really even do anything wrong. They lose a coin toss, get a 5-pack put on them right off the hop, then they get to come to a table where the pro made a ball but had no shot so they played safe, the player kicks 3 rails to hit the ball, hits it, sells out, and is down 7-0 before they get back to the table again. Now they have the start on a dry break but the 1 is on the head rail and the cueball down near the rack, at this point they are shell shocked, they are out of stroke, they try to run the bankshot to get something going, it jaws, the pro runs the set out, 9-0, the opponent did not make a single shot and NEVER actually shot at an actual non-long bank pot and got a 0 accustat. Thats is a player who against one of his peers might shoot in the .600-.700 range on a good day. That is what playing the elite players can do to you, and when a pro is getting a .900+ accustat against a world class pro they are doing something really hard because the opponent matters in accustats.

perhaps her accustats record in open tournaments then. but i totally get your drift. it's never much fun being on the other end when someone's playing a career match against you. you just gotta sit there, enjoy the show and hope when you get a chance, hooked or not, that you make the best of it and maybe get a good roll or two to get you going.

speaking of great kicks, that reminds me of the 2011 SBE match of Parica playing Earl. some crazy kicks there.
 
Has anyone actually watched these girls on youtube play? This thread should have been done a long time ago!

Yes, and some of them play as good or better than the mid-range of the top 30 men players in the world. Some of them are noticeably better than some members of our last Mosconi Cup team.

You'll have a safe haven for your pretensions only as long as they don't bother to participate in American tournaments.
 
If Xiaoting Pan had Shane Van Boening or Charlie Bryant breaking for her would she be able to compete at 9 Ball with the top men pros and if no they why? Also John Schmidt once mentioned that to nullify the break a little it might be good to have a rule where if you make a ball off the break in 9 or 10 ball your opponent has to push out every time. It would slow the game down but would also even out the field a little.

I think a simple no is the best answer. In a game where one critical shot can blow the game or win a game, women will blow them more than men and strike fewer winners. In the womens game, the top women winning has as much to do with the others just NOT coming up with the big shot.

You don't pay for a mistake in the womens game.
 
Yes, and some of them play as good or better than the mid-range of the top 30 men players in the world. Some of them are noticeably better than some members of our last Mosconi Cup team.

You'll have a safe haven for your pretensions only as long as they don't bother to participate in American tournaments.

i would like to hear who is the best Chinese female player, i keep seeing different names coming up in this thread, who is presently the number 1 Chinese female player?
 
i would like to hear who is the best Chinese female player, i keep seeing different names coming up in this thread, who is presently the number 1 Chinese female player?

I don't know or care who the "best" is tournament-wise. I watch them play and judge from that. Just like anyone does in a pool hall routinely. I've watched Fu Xiao Fang recently and like her play:

Fu Xiao-Fang vs. Chen Si-Meng at 2011 World 9-Ball China Open
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMpr3ki2Q1g

I've already posted this further up this thread or the other 'female player' thread.

So are you going to watch this and tell me how bad she is and how Mr. X could beat her hands down? Compare her here to some of the American players at the last Mosconi cup and it's embarrassing for male American players.
 
I don't know or care who the "best" is tournament-wise. I watch them play and judge from that. Just like anyone does in a pool hall routinely. I've watched Fu Xiao Fang recently and like her play:

Fu Xiao-Fang vs. Chen Si-Meng at 2011 World 9-Ball China Open
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMpr3ki2Q1g

I've already posted this further up this thread or the other 'female player' thread.

So are you going to watch this and tell me how bad she is and how Mr. X could beat her hands down? Compare her here to some of the American players at the last Mosconi cup and it's embarrassing for male American players.

are you not american? and yes i will watch a few videos of her play.
 
I don't know or care who the "best" is tournament-wise. I watch them play and judge from that. Just like anyone does in a pool hall routinely. I've watched Fu Xiao Fang recently and like her play:

Fu Xiao-Fang vs. Chen Si-Meng at 2011 World 9-Ball China Open
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMpr3ki2Q1g

I've already posted this further up this thread or the other 'female player' thread.

So are you going to watch this and tell me how bad she is and how Mr. X could beat her hands down? Compare her here to some of the American players at the last Mosconi cup and it's embarrassing for male American players.
the pressure in the mosconi cup is much higher than the World 9ball china open...
 
the pressure in the mosconi cup is much higher than the World 9ball china open...

That's no excuse for how poorly some of America's last Mosconi Cup players performed. I also don't believe there's more pressure in the Mosconi Cup than the other competition. Regardless of what it is you bring your game and a couple of those Mosconi Cup players didn't have nearly enough.
 
I don't know or care who the "best" is tournament-wise. I watch them play and judge from that. Just like anyone does in a pool hall routinely. I've watched Fu Xiao Fang recently and like her play:

Fu Xiao-Fang vs. Chen Si-Meng at 2011 World 9-Ball China Open
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMpr3ki2Q1g

I've already posted this further up this thread or the other 'female player' thread.

So are you going to watch this and tell me how bad she is and how Mr. X could beat her hands down? Compare her here to some of the American players at the last Mosconi cup and it's embarrassing for male American players.

All you male chauvinists out there can watch this and tell me what you see. I don't see "women" pool players, I just see POOL PLAYERS! If you don't think these two women can play then you just aren't paying attention. Only the best men are favorites over them, and not by that much. They both play run-out pool. They shoot straight and know how to move the cue ball. I don't really think either of them would be phased that much by playing against men. I for one would love to see them play in open events. I think that would open a lot of eyes.

I like Chris Bartrum and think a lot of his game and his heart, but he is not a huge favorite over either of these ladies. He would need to get down and play to beat either of them. And that might not be enough. As far as a money game I have no idea if either of them gamble. But if they do, I might be betting on them against a lot of men players. JMHO as always. But what do I know? :smile:
 
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