I can't seem to get this shot down

Digger0038

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGhWZAu31hk


This is a shot I have been working on for a while now but I could not get it because I was not sure of the proper english to get the CB to come off the rail and down for position on the 9 ball. I found this video on Youtube that explained the proper english but I still cant seem to get it. I can make the ball using low left hand english but for some reason the cue ball seems to come off the rail and follow the ball to the upper right corner pocket. When I try and hit any lower left the cue ball flies off the table.

Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong or what I can try to get it? It's much harder than it looks.
 
I think the way that Danny has positioned the balls in his video makes the shot fairly simple. But if the hit is a little more full, you need to stroke much harder to get the cueball to the rail. And if it's a little thinner, you really need to make sure and get enough draw on it.

But if the balls are lined up like Danny has them, it shouldn't be too difficult of a shot.
 
If you are not getting the expected reaction you are not striking the CB where you think you are.

Timing is key, you must have the last look at the CB address before switching your eyes to the OB for final delivery of the cue.

Incidentally in the video he cross strokes this quite a bit and looks to be using a higher deflection shaft hence his aiming point, ymmv.
 
I watched the video and as I waited to her Danny say it and he did. You have to snap draw the cue ball with lots of low left.. Hit it hard and sharp. If you don't the cue ball will just kill it self on the long rail.It has to start drawing back towards you after contact with the object ball.
If i had you on a table and could show you on to do it you would be doing it in a couple tries. Start out shooting this shot much closer to the object ball to get the feel and work the distance back away from the object ball a little at a time.
 
Digger,

Firstly, the cue ball should not go flying off of the table unless you are doing something incorrectly.

It is difficult if not impossible to determine without actually seeing what you are attempting to do.

If I had to guess, which is what I am doing, I'd say that you are getting the CB airbourne in some way when it leaves the table. Either launching into the air directly from off of the stick or hitting down too much & bouncing it from off of the table bed.

Keep in mind that you do not have to hit that shot that hard. All you need is to get a good spin to speed ratio. If the cut angle is too severe it can be difficult. But if it is as he had it lined up it is not.

Remember that the cut angle will get the ball headed to the rail although up table. So by hitting it more full it will go not so much up table but the shot would be missed unless you throw it into the pocket with the left english.

So the fuller hit along with the draw english will get the ball headed more straight across the table & then when the left hand english grabs the rail it will spin up table for the 9 ball.

So you need to keep the cue ball in contact with the table so the spin can grab when it is supposed to be gabbing.

Work on delivering the cue smoothly but firmly into the cue ball at about the 7:30 position maybe more like 7:25 & about 2 tips from the center of the cue ball. I do this with as level a cue as I can get.

Try it & develope a feel for the spin you are putting on the cue ball. You want a high spin but not alot of foward momentum (a high spin to speed ratio).

It does take some 'practice'. If I was practicing this shot believe it or not, I would be focusing more on the position than making the ball & then when I was getting position I would focus on making the ball too.

I hope ths helps. Good luck with it.

Regards to You &
 
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I watched the video and as I waited to her Danny say it and he did. You have to snap draw the cue ball with lots of low left.. Hit it hard and sharp.

I posted on this stroke a while back and got flamed by the elite instructor click on this forum. Although I was shown the stroke years ago by Robert LeBlanc (Bobby Cotton) and another similar version by Dallas West, the stroke was in my imagination. :rolleyes:

Best,
Mike
 
I think the way that Danny has positioned the balls in his video makes the shot fairly simple. But if the hit is a little more full, you need to stroke much harder to get the cueball to the rail. And if it's a little thinner, you really need to make sure and get enough draw on it.

But if the balls are lined up like Danny has them, it shouldn't be too difficult of a shot.

Was thinking the same thing.
Damn dude, every so often you make sense.

Digger: can you draw consistently in general? For example, if your cue ball is near the side pocket, and you shoot a hanger in the corner on the same rail, can you draw past your cue ball's original position the length of the table, down to the bottom rail?

If you can't draw table length every time from this situation, you will have trouble executing this shot in the video. It needs a very low hit.

If trying to go low causes you to jump the ball, there are 2 possible ways that can happen.

1. You're going so low you scoop the ball. Makes a loud CLACK miscue sound usually. That's definitely too low, though there's a fine line between "holy crap nice draw" and "haha what a tool he just scooped it!"

2. You're jacking up the ass end of the stick and bouncing the cue ball like a basketball off the table. That's a legal jump shot. In that case, you need to lower your cue until it's as close to dead level as you can get. One trick for this is to lower until you feel it hit the rail, then get it up just enough so you can swing comfortably without smacking the rail with the cue or with your hand.

The cut angle is important. Try making a less sharp cut to begin with. And focus on making the fullest hit possible on the cue ball. The draw does most of the work. The sidespin helps but it's mostly draw.

This similar shot by Corey might shot it more clearly from the top down view. Notice the cue ball path bends immediately from the draw, and runs into the cushion basically sideways. Then after bouncing off the cushion, there's STILL leftover draw and it hooks backwards visibly. It didn't really spin off that cushion at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_plsd-1TNNw#t=177s

The best advice I can give is:

1. Make sure you are hitting as low as you think you are. People often don't. One surefire way to confirm this is to use a stripe as your cue ball. Line it up to hit a specific spot on the circle around the number or the stripe. Chalk the crap out of your cue. After the shot, pick up your striped cue ball... is the chalk mark where you expected? Often it's higher. People instinctively jump up at the last second because they fear hitting low enough.

2. You don't have to ram it as hard as you think. If you hit the sweet spot on the cue ball, you get a lot of draw action. It's about halfway between the center of the cue ball and where it touches the cloth. Don't try to muscle it, focus on a smooth followthrough and low level stroke that punches right through that sweet spot.

3. Don't worry too much about the sidespin. By hitting off to the side, you aren't able to hit quite as low on the ball as you could hitting low+center. So you want to have just a bit of side and a lot of low, since draw does most of the work.
 
Thank you all very very much for your replies. I am going to use your suggestions and give it a try tomorrow after work. I will let you know if I get it.
 
Corey stroked the hell out of the ball!

Side note : Danny's Zinger shot was filmed at Pete Fusco's poolroom "The Spot" in Bucks county. Coincidentally the same table as in my avatar.
 
Corey stroked the hell out of the ball!

Side note : Danny's Zinger shot was filmed at Pete Fusco's poolroom "The Spot" in Bucks county. Coincidentally the same table as in my avatar.

Corey Deuel is king of the circus shots in my book. :thumbup2:

(there's better shots he has made available on the net.)
 
Thank you all very very much for your replies. I am going to use your suggestions and give it a try tomorrow after work. I will let you know if I get it.

Why don't you start off with a much shorter, easier version of the shot? Then when you get that mastered, add a little distance and work your way out to Danny's shot.

The main thing is to get left english on the shot. Aim thick at the object ball and spin it! Low is good, but left is what reverses that ball off the rail.
 
3. Don't worry too much about the sidespin. By hitting off to the side, you aren't able to hit quite as low on the ball as you could hitting low+center. So you want to have just a bit of side and a lot of low, since draw does most of the work.

This I disagree with. The sidespin is what truly reverses the shot. The draw just brings the cueball at a better angle for the side to take.
 
The key to this shot is speed control. Hit it too hard and the draw doesn't take affect. With less speed and extreme spin, the cue ball has time to start moving back. The side spin is what brings it the rest of the way for shape off of the rail.

Hit it too hard, and the draw doesn't grab. Either does the side spin. Try hitting the cue ball straight into a rail with a lot of speed and side spin and watch the results compared to a softer shot.

The "snap draw" does two things. It increases the speed of the stroke at the last second which increases the amount of spin you put on the cue ball. Larry Nevel and Mike Massey have this stroke down to a science.

The second thing is the amount of control you have with your spear. The small movement allows for less effort in your arm and the chance for a spasm in your stroke. You can stroke loosely and apply what I call "snatching the cue", or "digging in", to the cue ball.

You can also use this draw stroke to avoid traffic in tight places. The spin takes affect quickly and you can turn the cue ball to avoid hitting other balls. Just watch your speed.

Best,
Mike
 
Take some amps off at first until you learn the feel of it...try hitting this with a lot less power, just enough to draw it across to the other rail; then try the shot again, get the pinch draw to pull it over to the rail and with enough spin left to get it moving back toward you. Then amp it up little by little until your getting the cue ball back to where Kid Delicious has it. I hit this one all the time, but not with near as much pepper on it as he uses. Plus the softer attempts will get your stroke working accurately first, and the added speed in subsequent attempts will get this shot working for you. Ball placement matters, too...sounds like you may be giving yourself too much angle and/or the OB is too deep (close to the foot rail) to get this to pull back, especially if you're scratching in the same pocket.
 
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And I believe the condition of the cloth plays into it a lot. Brand new or well used makes it pretty much impossible..imo.
 
This I disagree with. The sidespin is what truly reverses the shot. The draw just brings the cueball at a better angle for the side to take.

You may be right. I looked at the danny video and thought "oh, that's the corey shot", but looking more closely, it's different... corey's was all about the draw, whereas danny's definitely has more sidespin.
 
And I believe the condition of the cloth plays into it a lot. Brand new or well used makes it pretty much impossible..imo.

Agreed. Brand new cloth will slide too much, and very old cloth will likely end up not giving enough angle on the 9 and possibly no angle at all.
 
I watched the video and as I waited to her Danny say it and he did. You have to snap draw the cue ball with lots of low left.. Hit it hard and sharp. If you don't the cue ball will just kill it self on the long rail.It has to start drawing back towards you after contact with the object ball.
If i had you on a table and could show you on to do it you would be doing it in a couple tries. Start out shooting this shot much closer to the object ball to get the feel and work the distance back away from the object ball a little at a time.[/QUOTEure

I'm not sure what you mean --- just for clarity. I thought cue speed was the only factor based on Dr. Dave's experiments. What do you mean by sharp and hard?

Also, does the "snap draw" do anything beside increase the cue speed?
 
I watched the video and as I waited to her Danny say it and he did. You have to snap draw the cue ball with lots of low left.. Hit it hard and sharp. If you don't the cue ball will just kill it self on the long rail.It has to start drawing back towards you after contact with the object ball.
If i had you on a table and could show you on to do it you would be doing it in a couple tries. Start out shooting this shot much closer to the object ball to get the feel and work the distance back away from the object ball a little at a time.[/QUOTEure

I'm not sure what you mean --- just for clarity. I thought cue speed was the only factor based on Dr. Dave's experiments. What do you mean by sharp and hard?

Also, does the "snap draw" do anything beside increase the cue speed?


The wrist adds nothing in terms of cue speed, what it does do is it stops them gripping too tight and pulling the cue resulting in striking the cue ball in the wrong spot.
There another myth busted :grin:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGhWZAu31hk


This is a shot I have been working on for a while now but I could not get it because I was not sure of the proper english to get the CB to come off the rail and down for position on the 9 ball. I found this video on Youtube that explained the proper english but I still cant seem to get it. I can make the ball using low left hand english but for some reason the cue ball seems to come off the rail and follow the ball to the upper right corner pocket. When I try and hit any lower left the cue ball flies off the table.

Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong or what I can try to get it? It's much harder than it looks.

If this is happening then your cue ball is slightly airborn when it hits the object ball. Which means 2 things. First you are most likely not hitting the CB where you think you are and second, you are not using a level stroke. I would bet that you are elevating the but end of your cue just a bit.
 
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