Should the TAR table stay as is or go to standard pockets? You choose.

What size pockets should be on the TAR Table?

  • Keep the 4 1/8" pockets.

    Votes: 236 46.5%

  • Switch to standard Diamond 4 1/2" pockets.

    Votes: 271 53.5%
  • Total voters
    507
I think more of the AZ fans of TAR matches can relate to 4 1/2" pockets which are more common than 4 1/8". When a table gets down to 4" to 4 1/8" size pockets it just takes so much of the fun out of playing on it. Shots that you can play on a 4 1/2" pocket and get position just aren't there on the 4 1/8" size pockets (at least for me they aren't there!).

James
 
Yeah, I guess it just comes down to a matter of preference. Would the audience rather watch them struggle or rather watch them run out like water? I like the runouts, 2 or 3 games per inning, both guys shooting it up for the money. But I still gotta say I never thought I would see the day where literally half on AZ would call the standard diamond too easy.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Yeah, I guess it just comes down to a matter of preference. Would the audience rather watch them struggle or rather watch them run out like water? I like the runouts, 2 or 3 games per inning, both guys shooting it up for the money. But I still gotta say I never thought I would see the day where literally half on AZ would call the standard diamond too easy.
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I don't think that break and run % of 17 to 22% is "running out like water". Just my opinion though.

JCIN, have you or anyone you know sampled TAR matches and provided some stats? Just curious.
 
Yeah that is true, but how often do they get out when they can begin with a makeable shot perhaps off a dry break, bad push, miss whatever. Pretty much every time right?
 
john schmidt said:
theres more people in new york alone who have heard of and play 14,1 then have heard of and pay to watch anything on tar.
theres more people in southern states too who play onehole then have ever heard of tar.
now to say those people dont want to pay to see tar means many different things but it isnt that that few play those games.
i think people would rather go play pool then pay to sit and watch it.
pool is boring to watch but fun to play. the same can be said for many activities.
not your fault its just how it is.
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There are more people in China than in New York. The chair is against the wall. Shaved monkeys walk faster.

All of those statements have as much to do with my point as yours does.

I could care less who plays what or where they are. I care who pays to watch. Historically 14.1 and 1 pocket generate a lot of talk and not much follow through when the time to buy comes. Thats just a fact.

As too pool being boring that thread is over in the dead horse section. Though I am glad to hear its not all my fault.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Yeah that is true, but how often do they get out when they can begin with a makeable shot perhaps off a dry break, bad push, miss whatever. Pretty much every time right?
Click to expand...

Consider this data from Turning Stone XX 9-Ball, Jan. 2013:

The breaker won 37% (48 of 130) of the games in which he either fouled on the break or broke dry without fouling. That means that the incoming player failed to get out a significant amount of times, no?

Even more facinating to me, the break seems to have less value than many would believe. Observe:

the breaker "won 51% of the games (156 of 307)"
 
Diamond tables play tough already. 4.5 pockets give just a bit more chance for us viewers (who pay to watch) see some good pool and tables getting ran. I want to see players gain confidence while they play, to go after shots. When the table plays too tough players will end up opting for safety play rather then going for it. At least IMO. It's not like 5 or 5.25" pockets here, 4.5 is still very tough.
 
diamond pockets

hi justin, they have had a lot of polls on az as to what the best table is, in every poll i have seen the diamond pro am blue label wins. so if it is the greatest table today, why modify it? the us open, derby city, and bca events are all played on diamonds, the promoters of these events dont modify the pocket size. pool is a brutal bussiness right now, your not going to make everybody happy, try running a handicap tournament, it will drive you crazy. do what works best for tar, personally i like the gold crown 5 better. gary henry, owner of garys victor billiards.
 
My last thoughts about the subject is this:

I will not be satisfied until the top pros are playing on a table that is elevated 100' or more in the air and the players have to walk around the table on 4" I beams. That, and only that is worth playing for. Make 'em sweat hahahahaha......
 
JCIN said:
There are more people in China than in New York. The chair is against the wall. Shaved monkeys walk faster.

All of those statements have as much to do with my point as yours does.

I could care less who plays what or where they are. I care who pays to watch. Historically 14.1 and 1 pocket generate a lot of talk and not much follow through when the time to buy comes. Thats just a fact.

As too pool being boring that thread is over in the dead horse section. Though I am glad to hear its not all my fault.[/Q
i feel your frustration. u have told me many times u r worth what people will pay u.u r absolutely right.u say if i dont like it quit and do something else.
again great advice
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JCIN said:
There are more people in China than in New York. The chair is against the wall. Shaved monkeys walk faster.

All of those statements have as much to do with my point as yours does.

I could care less who plays what or where they are. I care who pays to watch. Historically 14.1 and 1 pocket generate a lot of talk and not much follow through when the time to buy comes. Thats just a fact.

As too pool being boring that thread is over in the dead horse section. Though I am glad to hear its not all my fault.
Click to expand...


I've been having a great time watching the TAR matches. If everybody did it like me I guarantee it would be a national pastime.

Here's my agenda.

- I warn my wife (who now knows all about TAR and Justin and Shane and Orcullo and Jay and Mark and OMGWTF) I won't be joining her for a couple of nights.

- I bought an HD notebook I can hook up to my LED television with HD HDMI output - upgraded my wireless to dual band.

- I get onto AZ and try to get a couple of sweat bets (GAL regulars only,thank you). If I can't get Shane I'll bet on somebody else because I have to sweat.

- see if my buddy wants to watch with me, his place or mine (he has a huge projection television set up to his computer.

- Get a good bottle of wine, jaegermeister, or whatever.

- wake up at 4 am and watch the loop.

If anybody asks me to do something during a TAR match, I tell them they can work their schedule around TAR or go chase a shaved monkey.
 
JCIN said:
There are more people in China than in New York. The chair is against the wall. Shaved monkeys walk faster.

All of those statements have as much to do with my point as yours does.

I could care less who plays what or where they are. I care who pays to watch. Historically 14.1 and 1 pocket generate a lot of talk and not much follow through when the time to buy comes. Thats just a fact.

As too pool being boring that thread is over in the dead horse section. Though I am glad to hear its not all my fault.
Click to expand...

How about this for an idea -- Have some of the players/fans that love 14.1 and 1 pocket go out and pre sell the stream to all the fans out there. Then when they have sold 'X' amount of viewership (non refundable -- yes, yes I know my plan is already flawed), then JCIN can put them up as TAR 72 (or how ever long it takes to sell that many viewers).
 
Pockets

Keep the pockets the same. Making them bigger and with certain formats the better player might not win .
 
I say 4.5 pockets. I like to see "run out", offensive pool. The tightness of the table turns it more into a defensive, cat & mouse game which slows it down too much.

I was pumped up to see that this past weekend & it didn't live up to my expectations. I believe the table was just too much. It seemed to play much tougher than in the past. I though it would be the opposite with new cloth.

Thanks Justin & TAR for what you do bring us!
 
pocket size

i voted to keep the tar table the same. i didn't see j schmidt having any trouble on that last night. (sorry corey) i would also mention baseball diamond dimensions are identical, outfields all vary. football fields are identical for high school, college, and professional teams, although some rules are different.

and after reading more than a dozen pages of this, my thoughts go toward the idea that if it means more viewers, change! if it turns out to be tar's "steroid era," change back!
 
Good debating points on both sides.

Perhaps this is the poll needed:

  • I am more likely to buy TAR matches played on the TAR Diamond table with 4 1/2" pockets than with 4 1/8" pockets;
  • I am more likely to buy TAR matches played on the TAR Diamond table with 4 1/8" pockets than with 4 1/2" pockets;
  • I am approximately equally likely to buy TAR matches played on the TAR Diamond table with 4 1/2" pockets as with 4 1/8" pockets.

I like it both ways. So here's what we need -- Day 1 with the looser pockets and Day 2 with the tighter pockets. If tied after Day 2, the player who wins a lag gets to choose which rails to use for Day 3.

That should be easy to do, eh?:smile: After all, RKC has been talking about tables with easily changeable rails. What's the change-over time for the current TAR table?
 
jalapus logan said:
... JCIN, have you or anyone you know sampled TAR matches and provided some stats? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Here are a few B&R results from previous threads. The pockets were 4 1/8" for all of these.

TAR 22 -- SVB vs. Strickland, 9-ball: 23 B&R of 142 games = 16%

TAR 26, Day 3 -- SVB vs. JA, 10-ball: 18 of 44 = 41%

TAR 28, Day 1 -- Deuel vs. Schmidt, 8-ball: 6 of 26 = 23%

TAR 28, Day 3 -- Deuel vs. Schmidt, 10-ball: 8 of 31 = 26%
 
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