Should the TAR table stay as is or go to standard pockets? You choose.
- Thread starter JCIN
- Start date
Thank you Justin, because I didn't want to get involved in this either, I'm tired of all this tight pocket shit
SVB ran a 7 pack and 2 6 packs in 10-ball in a single match on this table that is being called "too tough"....
For me personally 4.5 inch pockets would wreck TAR matches which are supposed to be a long drawn out battle to find out the best of the best. on 4.5 inch pockets even in a race to 25 it becomes a breaking contest.
Raj Hundal got murdered by the TAR table, he then went and got 2nd place on "normal" Diamond tables the following week in a top end pro event because the guy can break and as long as the pockets are loose enough he can put the balls in the hole.
That is what the TAR table does, it seperates the true elites from all the rest.
I can say one thing, on a 4.5 inch standard Diamond my PPV money is gone because pool on those things gets really lame to watch. "nice break, he is out, and the announcers agree, I might as well go get a soda..."
For me personally 4.5 inch pockets would wreck TAR matches which are supposed to be a long drawn out battle to find out the best of the best. on 4.5 inch pockets even in a race to 25 it becomes a breaking contest.
Raj Hundal got murdered by the TAR table, he then went and got 2nd place on "normal" Diamond tables the following week in a top end pro event because the guy can break and as long as the pockets are loose enough he can put the balls in the hole.
That is what the TAR table does, it seperates the true elites from all the rest.
I can say one thing, on a 4.5 inch standard Diamond my PPV money is gone because pool on those things gets really lame to watch. "nice break, he is out, and the announcers agree, I might as well go get a soda..."
Just my opinion.
I know that almost all of the best players want tight pockets. But for what this is, you want people to enjoy watching people do things they cant to. Per example watch Johnny run 13 racks and lose. That is the most exciting thing I have ever seen. There was a lot of people watching. To watch someone do what we all do is no fun. I want to see confidence, not people jawing up balls, I can go to any bar and watch that. For that the race could be to 31, and take a lot less time. on a table that is so tight there are shots that aren't possible. Even a C player can break and run 1 out of 25 racks, people don't see it as a tough table they just say how did he miss that. If you think for a minute that 1000's of people wouldn't want to see SVB run 15 racks, you would be quite mistaken. And yes, Justin, it is your dough you do what you know in your heart is best and listen to no one. Again, Just my opinion. See ya at the DCC.
I know that almost all of the best players want tight pockets. But for what this is, you want people to enjoy watching people do things they cant to. Per example watch Johnny run 13 racks and lose. That is the most exciting thing I have ever seen. There was a lot of people watching. To watch someone do what we all do is no fun. I want to see confidence, not people jawing up balls, I can go to any bar and watch that. For that the race could be to 31, and take a lot less time. on a table that is so tight there are shots that aren't possible. Even a C player can break and run 1 out of 25 racks, people don't see it as a tough table they just say how did he miss that. If you think for a minute that 1000's of people wouldn't want to see SVB run 15 racks, you would be quite mistaken. And yes, Justin, it is your dough you do what you know in your heart is best and listen to no one. Again, Just my opinion. See ya at the DCC.
Are you talking about that circus gaffed up 10ft converted snooker table...that someone tried to turn into a pocket pool table...what a joke that was, not to mention an insult to the real pool tables out here
Roll out is king
Regular people want to watch racks run, so make the pockets bigger.
They want to see spectacular shots !!!!!
Do you honestly think we want to see safeties?
Years ago I saw CJ run a 7 pack on Francisco then watch Francisco run 7 racks back. That was the greatest game I ever saw. :smile:
When I am PLAYING, I want to play on the tightest table.
When I am WATCHING I want to see a shot I have never seen before.
I suggest you change the game to roll out, let's bring out those great shots that Pro players can accomplish.
The Warriors basketball team sucks, so why do I pay to go to their games.
Because in every game there is a spectacular shot that is unbelievable.
That's why I keep going and spend my money.
Just my two cents, Barney.
Regular people want to watch racks run, so make the pockets bigger.
They want to see spectacular shots !!!!!
Do you honestly think we want to see safeties?
Years ago I saw CJ run a 7 pack on Francisco then watch Francisco run 7 racks back. That was the greatest game I ever saw. :smile:
When I am PLAYING, I want to play on the tightest table.
When I am WATCHING I want to see a shot I have never seen before.
I suggest you change the game to roll out, let's bring out those great shots that Pro players can accomplish.
The Warriors basketball team sucks, so why do I pay to go to their games.
Because in every game there is a spectacular shot that is unbelievable.
That's why I keep going and spend my money.
Just my two cents, Barney.
I agree with what CJ and the pros actually want.
I agree and so do "they".We want ten foot tables with 4.25 pockets.
Joe T
Well-known member
I'm with celtic on this one, not that I would walk but I think he summed it up pretty good. Most or I should say many packages are just breaking easy layouts, defintely definitely not all I know and yes I guy can hit a gear and come with a circus shot to keep it going but I think with the table playing the way it does holds my interest more because I know there's like no easy outs and I'm pretty sure it holds the attention of the players too as they are fighting, fighting to stay in line.
I guess we all watch for different reasons, mine is to watch the intensity, focus and confidence that it takes to stay in line and pocket balls under pressure, I think the TAR table brings that to the table
.4.5 vs 4.125
I think the most exciting TAR rotation match was alex vs shane race to 100 after Alex won the world pool masters. That was on standard pockets and it wasn't package after package. The match had everything, great runs, great safes, unbelievable shots, etc.
I have every TAR DVD they put out and have bought every stream except Oscar vs Raj (I was outta town) but that match is still the greatest rotation match in my opinion. They got to open up but they still weren't automatically out. My 2nd pick for TAR rotation match would be Shane vs Alex at derby 1.
Ive enjoyed the matches on the tighter table too but it's more of a "thinking" appreciation. Because I play I can "understand" that that was an unbelievable runout given the table conditions and I say to myself "Man that guy is incredible to run that difficult rack on a table like that" but from a visual perspective, its just not that exciting to watch a bunch of safes if it's happening more often than not. And probably less exciting for any viewer that doesn't understand how conditions affect play. (lots of em don't, even on AZ)
I like watching good one pocket but again it's a "thinking" sort of appreciation, not so much exciting to watch, and it only lasts for a while until I'm ready to watch players shoot the damn ball into the hole.lol (yes I would buy a TAR one pocket stream given the right players, and straight pool even more so)
I enjoy playing on tighter than average tables because I think it helps my play but I think the game is more appealing to watch when the players can open up more.
In the end although I hate the fact that increasing the pocket size makes the break a much larger factor, I feel it's more enjoyable to watch players open up. They have high gears most of us only wish we had, let's let them show it.
I think the most exciting TAR rotation match was alex vs shane race to 100 after Alex won the world pool masters. That was on standard pockets and it wasn't package after package. The match had everything, great runs, great safes, unbelievable shots, etc.
I have every TAR DVD they put out and have bought every stream except Oscar vs Raj (I was outta town) but that match is still the greatest rotation match in my opinion. They got to open up but they still weren't automatically out. My 2nd pick for TAR rotation match would be Shane vs Alex at derby 1.
Ive enjoyed the matches on the tighter table too but it's more of a "thinking" appreciation. Because I play I can "understand" that that was an unbelievable runout given the table conditions and I say to myself "Man that guy is incredible to run that difficult rack on a table like that" but from a visual perspective, its just not that exciting to watch a bunch of safes if it's happening more often than not. And probably less exciting for any viewer that doesn't understand how conditions affect play. (lots of em don't, even on AZ)
I like watching good one pocket but again it's a "thinking" sort of appreciation, not so much exciting to watch, and it only lasts for a while until I'm ready to watch players shoot the damn ball into the hole.lol (yes I would buy a TAR one pocket stream given the right players, and straight pool even more so)
I enjoy playing on tighter than average tables because I think it helps my play but I think the game is more appealing to watch when the players can open up more.
In the end although I hate the fact that increasing the pocket size makes the break a much larger factor, I feel it's more enjoyable to watch players open up. They have high gears most of us only wish we had, let's let them show it.
I can definitely see earl showing up with a parachute.
But don't forget the ass weights and 71 inch cue, which could be an unfair advantage considering it looks to be about the length of the balance pole that tightrope walkers use
I voted to keep them as they are. I personally like tight pockets. Nothing worse than your opponent hitting the rail a good way from the pocket, and the ball falling. In my book that is a miss. Just my view.
This sure makes a lot of sense:
And this (from another thread). I know we're not talking about "tournaments" here, but I like RKC's line of thought:
I am not going to use too many more of my own words here, because much of it has already been said. But you (Justin) asked what customers wanted. I like standardization, the possibility of seeing (bigger) packages, and seeing if the opponent can fade the heat of that package (or be overpowered and crumble).
Also, I am not hell-bent on hill-hill matches, 25-23 matches, or even 25-17 matches. They are all fine, but sometimes just a good-ole arse whipping is also in order. Let them unleash the beast.
Anyway, I know it was all about "context", but didn't both players after TAR 30 say the table was too tough? And why was so much of the commentary about the "table"?
Thanks for asking for customer perspectives. I am willing to back up my convictions on standardization to 4.5 inch pockets with a pre-payment in full for the next 10 TAR matches at full price of $350, not knowing whether I can watch them all or not... Let me know if I should ship it...
Peace, good luck and keep up the excellent work.
~Razor
Edit to add: standardize the pockets AND stretch the race out to 27 or 30 each day for 10 ball
And this (from another thread). I know we're not talking about "tournaments" here, but I like RKC's line of thought:
I am not going to use too many more of my own words here, because much of it has already been said. But you (Justin) asked what customers wanted. I like standardization, the possibility of seeing (bigger) packages, and seeing if the opponent can fade the heat of that package (or be overpowered and crumble).
Also, I am not hell-bent on hill-hill matches, 25-23 matches, or even 25-17 matches. They are all fine, but sometimes just a good-ole arse whipping is also in order. Let them unleash the beast.
Anyway, I know it was all about "context", but didn't both players after TAR 30 say the table was too tough? And why was so much of the commentary about the "table"?
Thanks for asking for customer perspectives. I am willing to back up my convictions on standardization to 4.5 inch pockets with a pre-payment in full for the next 10 TAR matches at full price of $350, not knowing whether I can watch them all or not... Let me know if I should ship it...
Peace, good luck and keep up the excellent work.
~Razor
Edit to add: standardize the pockets AND stretch the race out to 27 or 30 each day for 10 ball
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Yes thats true,before I choose a player we have to get rules in order, is falling to your death a foul?
5 ball is a much better game.
Stay.......keeping the 4 1/8" is the only way to go, imo. To be the best, you gotta beat the best.
Pool is always getting compared to golf, so here's another one. I read some comments about 'consistency' and I think of the PGA tour and all their different venues, course ratings/levels of difficulty, weather, spectator stress, etc. Simply put, this shouldn't be the Memphis or Greensboro event, no disrespect to those. But I think TAR should do its best to keep these tests 'ELITE'.....akin to a Masters, US Open, etc.
They've got a good thing going. Hope it stays that way and I want to wish them continued success !!
Pool is always getting compared to golf, so here's another one. I read some comments about 'consistency' and I think of the PGA tour and all their different venues, course ratings/levels of difficulty, weather, spectator stress, etc. Simply put, this shouldn't be the Memphis or Greensboro event, no disrespect to those. But I think TAR should do its best to keep these tests 'ELITE'.....akin to a Masters, US Open, etc.
They've got a good thing going. Hope it stays that way and I want to wish them continued success !!
I cannot speak for straight pool but as for one pocket the numbers are pretty decent. Me and Scott threw together a one pocket DVD and sold over 1,000 copies of it, we sold out the 200 we had with us right at Derby. I think its all about marketing and getting it out there along with the players also promoting it. I am not sure how many PPV buys are needed for it to be a success but I am assuming at $35 you need to get over 200 buys to make something since there are sponsors also helping with cost.
Another thing is how many payment options you offer. The more ways you can take money in, the more you can make too, not everyone has Paypal so what about taking credit cards or perhaps you do already. If you were to ever do a big one pocket match this year I would try and do it fairly soon after the US Open One Pocket so it could be promoted on that stream. I enjoy the US Open One Pocket, it really is a good tournament, I actually enjoyed watching it in person more than Derby. These are all just my opinions when it comes to one pocket and you might be right and it does not even reach 100 buys.
Here's a question for Justin. What has been the most overall successful TAR match to date? Or the top 5?