Pro Pool players courting disaster

CJ Wiley said:
I'm going to play, I'm just dragging my feet as usual. You can ask Barry at the US OPEN, I usually call him a couple days before the tournament and say "you still got a spot," and he'd say "CJ, we always have a spot for you"..., Barry is one cool dude,

I know and understand he's had some financial challenges and problems (who hasn't?), but at the end of the day I look back and appreciate what Barry's done for pool. I'm 100% sure that he didn't want these problems with the US OPEN, NO ONE wants problems in business.

All I know is he made a lot of us players feel special though the years and the US OPEN in Chesapeake is part of some of my fondest memories in Professional Pool.

I'm not sure why that came out, all this controversy just reminds me of the stress and problems that Barry must have faced all those years running the #1 Pool Tournament in the Country. Anyway, Thanks Barry, I sincerely hope you have the US OPEN this year and I'll make a special point to attend......of course you know the routine, save me a spot until the day before the Event. :thumbup: 'The Game is the Teacher'.com
Click to expand...


The US Open is going to happen this year Oct. 13-19th at the Marriott next door to the Chesapeake Conference Center, hope to see you there!

No matter what anyone can say about Barry, the fact remains that he has & continues to do a lot for pool as well as the players.
 
Last edited:
jay helfert said:
The real figure is less than half of that. MANY players who lose in the early rounds do not buy back! Greg says that if he covers his All Around money (25K) with the buy backs he's happy.
Click to expand...

Jay, you know that I like to substitute facts for impressions. So I calculated the amount of the buy-in money at the 2013 Derby City Classic, based on data on the DCC website. Here's what I found.

In the 9-Ball Bank event, 283 (80%) of the 353 entrants exercised their buy-in option. At $50 per buy-in, that produced $14,150.

In the One Pocket event, 196 (70%) of the 280 entrants exercised their buy-in option. At $75 apiece, that produced $14,700.

In the 9-Ball event, 172 (62%) of the 277 entrants exercised their buy-in option. At $100 apiece, that produced $17,200.

So the total amount of buy-in money was $14,150 + $14,700 + $17,200 = $46,050.

If 2013 was typical, it looks like the buy-ins not only cover the All-Around money ($25,000 to 3 players in 2013), but help with quite a bit more.

[It's possible, of course, that my counts are off by a few, but I think they are pretty accurate.]
 
AtLarge said:
Jay, you know that I like to substitute facts for impressions. So I calculated the amount of the buy-in money at the 2013 Derby City Classic, based on data on the DCC website. Here's what I found.

In the 9-Ball Bank event, 283 (80%) of the 353 entrants exercised their buy-in option. At $50 per buy-in, that produced $14,150.

In the One Pocket event, 196 (70%) of the 280 entrants exercised their buy-in option. At $75 apiece, that produced $14,700.

In the 9-Ball event, 172 (62%) of the 277 entrants exercised their buy-in option. At $100 apiece, that produced $17,200.

So the total amount of buy-in money was $14,150 + $14,700 + $17,200 = $46,050.

If 2013 was typical, it looks like the buy-ins not only cover the All-Around money ($25,000 to 3 players in 2013), but help with quite a bit more.

[It's possible, of course, that my counts are off by a few, but I think they are pretty accurate.]
Click to expand...
Jay is being asked questions which he may not have answers to. Give me a call at 812-989-6665 , maybe I can help you. Greg/Diamond
 
Greg/Diamond said:
Jay is being asked questions which he may not have answers to. Give me a call at 812-989-6665 , maybe I can help you. Greg/Diamond
Click to expand...

I'm not asking questions, just providing information relative to a couple of comments earlier in the thread.
 
without TV pool can't make it because players are cut off from potential sponsorship

RobertaAgnor said:
The US Open is going to happen this year Oct. 13-19th at the Marriott next door to the Chesapeake Conference Center, hope to see you there!

No matter what anyone can say about Barry, the fact remains that he has & continues to do a lot for pool as well as the players.
Click to expand...

Barry and I have had many encounters in and out of the tournament room, mostly good and once we had a "disagreement". Overall he's ran a great tournament and especially in the 90s was cordial to every player involved from my information.

I guess this Bonus Ball situation is reminding me of the days with Don Mackey and the politics that were going on in Professional Pool. This was a turning point and Camel was a big factor, unfortunately they got cross ways and didn't pay 4 tournaments prize money which caused a lot of dissension and led to a law suit.

At that time we were doing other things that ended up paying off because the Game got promoted on TV, where Camel was not allowed to have a presence there anymore.

At that time Earl Strickand, George Breedlove and myself started the PCA and signed a million dollar deal with ESPN (over 4 years) that we Co- Sanctioned with the WPBA. I've played a few of these matches recently because I can see the same scenario developing with difference circumstances.

CLICK FOR A TV INTERVIEW ABOUT THIS SITUATION

I'll always bring up the crucial fact that without TV pool can't make it because the players are cut off from being able to get sponsors like we did in the 90s. There was possibly a million dollars a year being paid out by sponsors at that time PRIMARILY because of ESPN and other TV Presence.

Now, with streaming video replacing the TV there's no chance for this extra income and the players are left to survive on their prize money which is impossible. Most Pro tournaments you have to get in the top 5 to make anything that will last a month, so it's a brutal "treadmill" with no "Carrot" in sight.

I pray it changes soon, and it will get worse (momentarily) before it gets better, and that's just the natural process of change.

'The Game is the Teacher'.com
 
AtLarge said:
I'm not asking questions, just providing information relative to a couple of comments earlier in the thread.
Click to expand...

Information is only information if it is accurate... Since you are pulling numbers out of your posterior..... Well we all know what comes outta there LOL

Call Greg I think he just wants you to provide correct information and is willing to talk to you about it which is pretty cool imho....
 
CJ Wiley said:
Now, with streaming video replacing the TV there's no chance for this extra income and the players are left to survive on their prize money which is impossible. Most Pro tournaments you have to get in the top 5 to make anything that will last a month, so it's a brutal "treadmill" with no "Carrot" in sight.

I pray it changes soon, and it will get worse (momentarily) before it gets better, and that's just the natural process of change.

'The Game is the Teacher'.com
Click to expand...

The entertainment models are changing rapidly... The Huffington post now has more subscribers than the NY Times and people are turning off their TVs in droves... It's a brand new frontier headed this way with internet stations replacing TV stations looming on the horizon...

This means the entertainment arena is about to get ugly... Instead of 100 channels how about 1000 or 10000... Media is changing... As it does sponsorship will change also as far as commercials are concerned... Instead of pepsi paying 60million to be the main sponsor of the next Simon Cowell production they might spend 1 million with 60 internet stations....

It's still about rating and TV is the king of exposure but the winds of change always continue to blow.... As the tablets, pads and phones are more and more put into use for providing content we will see a change in the power base... It won't be soon but it will happen.. I still remember when cell phones came out and the telephone companies thought they would never be the only phones most people have.....

Get pool back in the colleges, back in the day rooms in bases around the world.... Court the next generation of fan/viewer and who knows.. Maybe a pool related internet station might be able to pull enough viewers to remake the sport.....

Chris
 
The Renfro said:
The entertainment models are changing rapidly... The Huffington post now has more subscribers than the NY Times and people are turning off their TVs in droves... It's a brand new frontier headed this way with internet stations replacing TV stations looming on the horizon...

This means the entertainment arena is about to get ugly... Instead of 100 channels how about 1000 or 10000... Media is changing... As it does sponsorship will change also as far as commercials are concerned... Instead of pepsi paying 60million to be the main sponsor of the next Simon Cowell production they might spend 1 million with 60 internet stations....

It's still about rating and TV is the king of exposure but the winds of change always continue to blow.... As the tablets, pads and phones are more and more put into use for providing content we will see a change in the power base... It won't be soon but it will happen.. I still remember when cell phones came out and the telephone companies thought they would never be the only phones most people have.....

Get pool back in the colleges, back in the day rooms in bases around the world.... Court the next generation of fan/viewer and who knows.. Maybe a pool related internet station might be able to pull enough viewers to remake the sport.....

Chris
Click to expand...

I agree. I am about to buy a flatscreen for the living room and hook it up to the computer as the ONLY information device in the living room for the family. No broadcast tv, no cable, no satellite. If we want to watch something and we can't find it through the net then it won't be watched.

My kids are going to grow up with content on demand when they need and want it - not with content fed to them when the networks decide to show it.

When Jessie wants to know about dolphins then we can surf together as a family and find out about dolphins. And when I want to watch Bonus Ball AND the Tunica Stream I can put both up side by side and keep the chatroom open on my laptop.

All that said I still think that there is more power for now in broadcast television. It will be another ten years before the TV as a dumb box is gone and TVs become computers in the fullest sense. When that happens people won't arrange their lives around pre-recorded broadcasts any more. Then it will be on demand and the only time people will sit down at a pre-arranged time will be for live shows.

Then it will be one of those things where the live shows will have to be interactive in a if-you're-not-tuned-in you will miss out type of deal. For example if they gave away a $1000 every ten minutes or one viewer wins a million dollars - that type of thing.

What's Earl Strickland's middle name - 25th caller wins - going all the way back to radio methods........
 
JB Cases said:
I agree. I am about to buy a flatscreen for the living room and hook it up to the computer as the ONLY information device in the living room for the family. No broadcast tv, no cable, no satellite. If we want to watch something and we can't find it through the net then it won't be watched.

My kids are going to grow up with content on demand when they need and want it - not with content fed to them when the networks decide to show it.

When Jessie wants to know about dolphins then we can surf together as a family and find out about dolphins. And when I want to watch Bonus Ball AND the Tunica Stream I can put both up side by side and keep the chatroom open on my laptop.

All that said I still think that there is more power for now in broadcast television. It will be another ten years before the TV as a dumb box is gone and TVs become computers in the fullest sense. When that happens people won't arrange their lives around pre-recorded broadcasts any more. Then it will be on demand and the only time people will sit down at a pre-arranged time will be for live shows.

Then it will be one of those things where the live shows will have to be interactive in a if-you're-not-tuned-in you will miss out type of deal. For example if they gave away a $1000 every ten minutes or one viewer wins a million dollars - that type of thing.

What's Earl Strickland's middle name - 25th caller wins - going all the way back to radio methods........
Click to expand...

This has the most merit of any of the ideas that have popped up lately... I know Accu-Stats gave away 1000 to the viewer who picked the most matches in a row correct as to the winner and we had a lot of fun with the guys that were there in person that were still in it after a few rounds.....

It would be very interesting to see what the numbers where if you did something like that.... You do know I was headed to bed... Now I have the wheels turning...... DAMNIT JOHN!!!!!!
 
The Renfro said:
Information is only information if it is accurate... Since you are pulling numbers out of your posterior..... Well we all know what comes outta there LOL ...
Click to expand...

What possible reason do you have to insult me? If the DCC website is accurate, so are my numbers (within a very small margin for possible counting errors).
 
doing the same Pool Shows in the same places as the last few years is not prudent.

The Renfro said:
The entertainment models are changing rapidly... The Huffington post now has more subscribers than the NY Times and people are turning off their TVs in droves... It's a brand new frontier headed this way with internet stations replacing TV stations looming on the horizon...

This means the entertainment arena is about to get ugly... Instead of 100 channels how about 1000 or 10000... Media is changing... As it does sponsorship will change also as far as commercials are concerned... Instead of pepsi paying 60million to be the main sponsor of the next Simon Cowell production they might spend 1 million with 60 internet stations....

It's still about rating and TV is the king of exposure but the winds of change always continue to blow.... As the tablets, pads and phones are more and more put into use for providing content we will see a change in the power base... It won't be soon but it will happen.. I still remember when cell phones came out and the telephone companies thought they would never be the only phones most people have.....

Get pool back in the colleges, back in the day rooms in bases around the world.... Court the next generation of fan/viewer and who knows.. Maybe a pool related internet station might be able to pull enough viewers to remake the sport.....

Chris
Click to expand...


I don't agree. Only hard core pool fans watch pool on the internet. ESPN still draws the same amount of households as always, and so do the other major stations.
What you're saying will happen, but it's a few years away, there's still enough time to get out to the public through broadcast Television....before it's too late.

Without branding the Game on a big media source the Game will never grow. I would think the last few years would have proven that at least 50% of the "pool world," it's painfully obvious. TV makes things "larger than life," that's the important thing right now, however, the deck is stacked I can see that, we have too many agendas.

The answer is definitely in a "character based," not "game based" Show. The Game will have no drawing power until some pool personalities are introduced to the general public and accepted as entertainment. This is how it was done before and this is the only way it can be done again. imo

Only time will tell, but doing the same Pool Shows in the same places as the last few years is not prudent for the Pros. They went from drawing a million viewers to 500.....this must be turned around by a different promotional strategy asap.

We can at least be rooting for Bonus Ball, there's nothing better on the horizon.
 
Last edited:
If I were to bet I'd say CJ is very familiar with the Internet. He has a successful online business, he produces video available on demand, & every post he writes looks like he built a mini website.

I think he also understands a thing or two about TV productions.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I don't agree. Only hard core pool fans watch pool on the internet. ESPN still draws the same amount of households as always, and so do the other major stations.
What you're saying will happen, but it's a few years away, there's still enough time to get out to the public through broadcast Television....before it's too late.

Without branding the Game on a big media source the Game will never grow. I would think the last few years would have proven that at least 50% of the "pool world," it's painfully obvious. TV makes things "larger than life," that's the important thing right now, however, the deck is stacked I can see that, we have too many agendas.

The answer is definitely in a "character based," not "game based" Show. The Game will have no drawing power until some pool personalities are introduced to the general public and accepted as entertainment. This is how it was done before and this is the only way it can be done again. imo

Only time will tell, but doing the same Pool Shows in the same places as the last few years is not prudent for the Pros. They went from drawing a million viewers to 500.....this must be turned around by a different promotional strategy asap.

We can at least be rooting for Bonus Ball, there's nothing better on the horizon.
Click to expand...
It appears that the game of Bonus Ball was newly created by professionals in the hope that the general public will support it. This is not typically how supply and demand works in the marketplace.

You can root for Bonus Ball but since it is a unproven product with a unproven market, there is no basis for expecting that it will succeed even with exposure on tv. The "Build it and they will come" business model only worked in the "Field of Dreams" movie and in strip clubs. :wink:
 
The only thing that sucks is the computer-sniping monkey sucker-punchers who know they can hit as hard as they want and enjoy the luxury of hiding behind their screen name.

If that's what this "pool forum" is for, a vehicle to hit and run, then I guess it does serve a purpose.

Most pro pool players I know *do* hit thousands of balls every single day when they are on the tournament trail. If they don't hit balls, they can't win. Goodness gracious, this is a given.

I am sickened by the derogatory words written on this thread about pro players while everybody defends the industry members, throwing pro pool players under the bus while doing so. What's that all about!?

I have read this thread for several days now, not posting, and I just had to insert my voice. I may stand in the minority, but I'm taking a stand against the computer-sniping monkey sucker-punchers on this thread. You know who you are. :angry:
 
Poolshootindon said:
From a consensus of threads I have read it seems to me that they do think just that.

Why is it that Pool always seems to struggle?

Look at the NBA, NFL, Major league basball,etc.

They are all succesfull. Athletes make huges sums of money.

What makes them different?

My guess would be that each of the leagues mentioned above had internal meetings and said what can we do to make this even better.

And you know what. They have been successful.

Maybe it is just not meant to be for Pool.

Time will tell. But the hour glass is just about empty.

Don
Click to expand...

I do know one thing the NBA, NFL, Major league baseball,etc did. They played the same game that the lesser players did. They didn't change the game and try to market it that way. They just had more fans willing to come watch them perform.
 
New network in town

Fatboy said:
Let me restate it in a better way, I think the path of the best opportunity is Asia, yes America is still probably a viable market but with the same effort more $$$ could be made in Asia than here. So Do you want to work for minimum wage or make $10,000/week for the same job.

ESPN sucks and is THE network in America, in Asia you have a much larger fan base and more networks to a deal with. America is too small and not a pool culture the way it has been developed in Asia the past(however many years).

Thats a clearer explanation of my thoughts,

"Asia is the future of the Game"<------sad but true IMO

best
eric:):)
Click to expand...

Just fyi, Fox is creating a competitor to ESPN. Supposed to be up and running in August if I remember correctly. They will struggle early as ESPN owns many contracts for some sports. But maybe pool can get in with them to start.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top