Bonus Ball Schedule: Right or Wrong

[JCIN]

I don't know the business model......

Generate revenue from para-mutiel wagering on BB games televised in Peru, New Zealand and North Korea. It will be supplemented by the millions of BB jerseys that will be sold. Player salaries will be supported by the tens of thousands of PPV subscribers and staff costs will be covered by selling out the arena for each match. The money to keep those sweet orange and purple lights on will come from the hundreds of thousands of amateur players playing in their local Bonus ball leagues.

Or not. Who knows. No one I know can figure it out. Meaning the guys running it are either smarter than everyone I know or they dont have a clue other than how to sell the dream to investors. I'll leave it up to others to decide which is more likely.

The reason some people are shitty at BB has a lot more to do with how things have been handled on a personal level with the people running it than any real affects it will have on existing events. The players have been stuck in the middle. If this turns into an us vs them between promoters and players it is just going to be fvcked up for everyone. I hope everyone chills out and settles down. I agree with you 100% that the fields for the events this summer will be great.

 

[golubushka]

----------

 

[golubushka]

----------

 

[cleary]

1. The penalty for a forfeit other than points in the standings is the obvious monetary loss of not playing a match.

What is the penalty for trying to convince people this silhouette is Ralf Souquet?

 

[mikeyfrost]

So are you going to apologise to Daz (and the other players) for the insinuations you've made about them in this thread?

Haha you knew the answer to that when you asked the question.

LOL....don't you know she's never wrong --- maybe misinformed, misunderstood, took her words out of context, your stupid(she's not), --- but she sure as shit aint wrong!!!

That just about sums it up accurately. Ton of posts talking pure ish then just accepts whatever is spoon fed. Makes sense for sure.

 

[jimmyg]

What is the penalty for trying to convince people this silhouette is Ralf Souquet?

Does anyone know his ERA?

J

 

[Black-Balled]

What is the penalty for trying to convince people this silhouette is Ralf Souquet?

hahahahahahahahhahahahah!!!!!!

 

[Spimp13]

What is the penalty for trying to convince people this silhouette is Ralf Souquet?

lol.....I tried searching.


PS..one of my favorite classy players so this is just in good fun.

 

[cleary]

We the players have been waiting a long time for something big and fresh to happen to billiards since the IPT. Now we have Bonus Ball. At first, like most players, I wasn't sure about the game, the rules etc., but after 2 weeks of matches we were all in love and glued to the game. It's a great game to play and everyone I speak to at the venue loves to watch it. The concept, scoreboard, shot clock and team play makes it exciting to watch and play.

I truly understand why the players want a weekly check... tournament life can be tough and 'eating what you kill' can be a real struggle. I guess I cannot blame anyone selling out for their own financial gain. I wouldn't, but I've never been in your shoes. But lets not get it twisted, it really is selling out. I have yet to see anyone play bonus ball who wasn't on the clock. I've yet to hear of anyone gambling playing bonus ball. Everyone smiles for the camera and backs it up because they're getting paid to do so, I get it.

You can label me a hater, that's totally fine. I'm not really worried about what you think of me. But I'm not a hater, I'm realistic. I'm not even trying to be mean, just honest. On facebook you called me "bitter" because of what I've said about a game I'm not a fan of. Either you think I was hoping to be involved (LOL) or possibly bitter would imply something else in England that I'm unaware of... but I can assure you, I'm not bitter. Bonus ball could not help me financial and it will never hurt me. I don't make a living in pool.

I've watch the game. I remember being at the US Open years ago when they were pushing it out in the lobby... it was laughable. My opinion hasn't changed. I think it's terribly boring and cheesy. I'm not a fan, but I'm not your market. I do think the studio looks pretty cool (minus the purple strip club lights).

I personally am a fan of your game and hope I continue to see you playing 9ball and 10ball tournaments... and winning.

 

[watchez]

All I know is if I had a family and made the decision to leave them to move to Vega$ - which probably doesn't go over well with some of the wives/girlfriends/baby mommas in any sense - I would want to know that this thing has long term financial backing and where the money is coming from or how it is going to be generated and if there is an exit plan.. But as JCIN stated, not one player knows.

 

[Ghosst]

The concept, scoreboard, shot clock and team play makes it exciting to watch and play.

I notice everyone involved has this line in their writings/videos/speeches. It almost seems scripted.

I'm not a "hater" either, it's just an observation.

 

[golubushka]

----------

 

[nateobot]

All I know is if I had a family and made the decision to leave them to move to Vega$ - which probably doesn't go over well with some of the wives/girlfriends/baby mommas in any sense - I would want to know that this thing has long term financial backing and where the money is coming from or how it is going to be generated and if there is an exit plan.. But as JCIN stated, not one player knows.

My gut feeling is the future does not include the current slate of players. Professional sports leagues are filled with younger kids, 18 - 30ish. Sure, you will have some older players that hang on for a while, but in reality there are very few popular sports where it's all gray haired guys competing. Maybe it was just the match I saw, but the teams appeared to be made up of all 40-50 year old guys (I'm one myself so no offense intended towards those players). If the target market is 18-40 year olds that market wants to picture themselves out there - not picture themselves out there in 10-20 years. I just have a feeling that this group of players are being used to get the product rolling and then it will either die, get shipped to another continent, or start filling up with younger talent.

 

[JD_Hogg]

BB is the best production I've seen yet, next to IPT that has a chance of selling itself to tv. This will be a good indication of what the market is out there for pool once they pitch it to TV.

I hope someone takes a chance on it so we can see what the public thinks

 

[watchez]

My gut feeling is the future does not include the current slate of players. Professional sports leagues are filled with younger kids, 18 - 30ish. Sure, you will have some older players that hang on for a while, but in reality there are very few popular sports where it's all gray haired guys competing. Maybe it was just the match I saw, but the teams appeared to be made up of all 40-50 year old guys (I'm one myself so no offense intended towards those players). If the target market is 18-40 year olds that market wants to picture themselves out there - not picture themselves out there in 10-20 years. I just have a feeling that this group of players are being used to get the product rolling and then it will either die, get shipped to another continent, or start filling up with younger talent.

So why build an arena for 1.5 million if you are going to ship it to another continent?

Why build it off the strip if as it has been mentioned, the casinos are a target to sell to?

Again, none of it adds up unless ...


p.s. Golf has plenty of older guys playing

 

[nateobot]

So why build an arena for 1.5 million if you are going to ship it to another continent?

Why build it off the strip if as it has been mentioned, the casinos are a target to sell to?

Again, none of it adds up unless ...


p.s. Golf has plenty of older guys playing

I'm sure I'm way off base, like I said just a gut feeling. I think the average age of PGA tour pros is around 35. You will always have outliers (Favre, Garnett, etc), which is great but they typically don't make up a majority of your players. Does anyone know the average age of the pro snooker players? I don't follow that sport at all, and it would seem that is more comparable to BB.

 

[jay helfert]

I don't usually post on forums anymore, but I will speak on behalf of the players...

We the players have been waiting a long time for something big and fresh to happen to billiards since the IPT. Now we have Bonus Ball. At first, like most players, I wasn't sure about the game, the rules etc., but after 2 weeks of matches we were all in love and glued to the game. It's a great game to play and everyone I speak to at the venue loves to watch it. The concept, scoreboard, shot clock and team play makes it exciting to watch and play.

Obviously these guys hit some bumps in the road the past 12 months and it has cost them more money than they wanted.

I don't know the business model and what the future holds, but myself and the players are passionate about this game and love the concept. We see the potential and we feel like professional players at this arena. This experience has definitely united the players.

We were asked months bank from WPBLTV which tournaments we would like to attend; and we all replied. Obviously it's not possible to avoid all competitions, but they tried their best. The players do have a choice to play Bonus Ball or attend a tournament because each team has 2 alternates. The cancellation of the World 10 Ball has also affected a lot of teams.

Like I said, all the guys have the option to play Bonus Ball or tournaments. We never got told any different. In addition, every single tournament in the world does not receive the same field or all the best players... mainly due to financial difficulty, personal reasons or no invitation.

For example, last year at the Great Southern Classic, many top players were missing including: Efren, Bustamante, Mika, Corteza, Souquet... and a long lost of other top players. Nothing was said this time last year when these players didn't show and none of these players received phone calls with threats. They didn't attend because they didn't want to or they couldn't afford the expenses. We don't want to play every tournament on the calendar and we are certainly not contracted to play anything. With so many international tournaments, it's touch to keep everyone happy.

This year, the Great Southern Classic will only be affected by 8-12 players from Bonus Ball. Some teams wanted this time off to play the Great Southern Classic and they will go play; that's their choice. Some teams have no matches scheduled the week of the Great Southern Classic but they simply can't afford to play. 75% of the players are broke! To play Ultimate 10 Ball, then the Southern Classic including the $1000 entry for the Bigfoot Challenge... players are looking at a minimum of $5000 inc travel expenses. I know some players with $200 to their name and some totally broke.

I will play Ultimate 10 Ball and it cost me about $1500-2000 in expenses. To stay another 10 days and play the Southern Classic would cost another $3000. I could afford to stay but I decided this time the best decision for me was to play Bonus Ball. I will definitely play future tournaments in the US this year and DCC next year.

With or without Bonus Ball, lots of these guys wouldn't be attending Great Southern Classic simply because they can't afford to play and payout $3000-5000 for 1.5-2 weeks. If they played everything including Ultimate 10 Ball, the Asian and European players are looking at $6000 in expenses, unless they have a stake horse.

This year, Great Southern Classic will be a much better field than last year. The guys traveling from Asia, Europe and the Middle East to play in the Ultimate 10 Ball will probably stay to play Great Southern Classic. The ones that don't will be because it is too expensive.

The list of players that are part of Bonus Ball and are staying to play Great Southern Classic are:
Johnny Archer
Shannon Daulton
Dennis Hatch
Warren Kiamco
Justin Hall
Joey Gray
Chip Compton
Jeremy Jones
Jayson Shaw
Phil Burford
Karl Boyes
Chris Melling
and I'm sure a few more..

I also know some of the Bonus Ball Guys could go and would like to go, but are not because it is too expensive.

Then there are about 6 of us who have to choose if we want to play Great Southern Classic, but decided to play Bonus Ball and be guaranteed a wage. A few guys couldn't afford to go and need the guaranteed money. My guess is Great Southern Classic lost 6-8 players tops due to Bonus Ball... it's hard times in the world right now.


Great Southern Classic will still get more entries than last year and it will certainly be a tougher field. ie: Bustamante, Reyes, Corteza, Biado, Melling, Fiejen and many more. None of these guys played Souther Classic last year.

So, I feel everyone is making a big fuzz out of nothing..

Also, the US Open 10 Ball and 8 Ball will have sick fields this year with the Asian and European guys flying over. The field is stronger than ever and the Bonus Ball guys are changing match times to allow players to play if they want. I will not play US Open 8 Ball and neither will Archer, Shuff and Orcullo. Nothing was said when we couldn't play, because we are playing in the World Games in Columbia. It just seems to me everyone is against Bonus Ball for the wrong reasons and it all has to do with money.

I certainly respect Greg and all his staff and I will continue to support his events in the future. I'm sure this year's event will be well supported and a great success, and wish everyone luck.


Darren Appleton
World 9 Ball Champion

Darren, first of all thank you for taking the time to post on here. It's nice to hear directly from one of the Bonus Ball players. I'm glad to hear that you enjoy the challenge of playing this game. Privately I don't think all the other Bonus ball players share your enthusiasm and many are there to get their check every week. If the money runs out, I doubt we will see you or anyone else playing this game in the future.

Now on to specifics. what's very different about the Southern Classic this year (besides the fact that it is now an established event with a proven track record) is that we have tied it to the Ultimate 10-Ball tournament. This was done to accommodate the players so they did not have to pay double travel expenses. Where else in professional pool can the players get two similar events back to back in the same location?

I think you have inflated your numbers considerably when you talk about expenses. Rooms were only $69 a night up until a few days ago. That's a great rate, only $35 each per night for a double. Even now the rooms are only $99 a night, so it's $50 per player to stay there. Wherever you are, whether in Vegas or Tunica you have to eat, so that expense is really irrelevant to this argument. And even in Las Vegas, players are paying rent, typically around $250 a week. So the cost of a room in Tunica is not that much more than it would be to go back to Vegas. There is no additional travel expense since you're already there. Only one round trip airfare for both tournaments.

Now let's talk about entry fees and buy backs. I think the total for all three Southern Classic events comes out to over $600, and that's a real expense. Greg and I would like to help out the Bonus Ball team members who are on the fence about staying after the Ultimate 10-Ball is over. We are willing to stake them for their entry fees and buy backs. If anyone is interested they can contact me directly at jayhelfert@yahoo.com or call me at (310)370-3994. Once again Bonus ball players can get staked to play in the Southern Classic!

This offer does not include the Bigfoot Challenge which will remain an elite event for the best players. To play in the Bigfoot you must be invited. Of concern to Greg and I is the fact that several of the invited players who confirmed their commitment to play have now withdrawn. These same players are also playing in the Ultimate 10-Ball. We moved the dates of the Bigfoot Challenge specifically to accommodate the invited players. Instead of being held later in the Southern Classic we moved it up to start immediately after the Ultimate 10-Ball. Players choosing to withdraw from this event, who had previously committed to play, may not be invited to future Bigfoot events. For this special invitational event we need committed players who we can rely on. This event will be the showcase for future tournaments, and it is of utmost importance that we invite the right players. I hope you understand our position here. Just like Bonus Ball this is business, not personal.

Thank you again for your input on this forum. Jay Helfert

 

[Hungarian]

You guys leave her alone today. She's been through enough. So just stop it..!

So are you going to apologise to Daz (and the other players) for the insinuations you've made about them in this thread?

LOL....don't you know she's never wrong --- maybe misinformed, misunderstood, took her words out of context, your stupid(she's not), --- but she sure as shit aint wrong!!!

 

[watchez]

Once again the entities outside of BB have stepped up -- first Mark G. offered $13K to pay for loss in rent. The same Mark G. that allowed Darren and his friends to play in amateur events a few years ago taking back a good load of money to England.
Now Jay - Greg offer to give players a free roll.

 

[Hungarian]

He said stake, not free roll.

I'm not sure exactly what that means.

Once again the entities outside of BB have stepped up -- first Mark G. offered $13K to pay for loss in rent. The same Mark G. that allowed Darren and his friends to play in amateur events a few years ago taking back a good load of money to England.
Now Jay - Greg offer to give players a free roll.