Bonus Ball Schedule: Right or Wrong

Bonus Ball Schedule: Right or Wrong?

  • Right

    Votes: 57 28.9%

  • Wrong

    Votes: 140 71.1%
  • Total voters
    197
  • Poll closed .
JAM said:
Okay. I'm going to spell it out for you, just so you understand it better, okay?

Greg Sullivan is a valued American pool promoter. Everybody knows who he is. He's the Derby City Classic promoter and the Diamond table man.

For years, maybe decades, he has taken money out of his pocket and given it to pool players, knowing how expensive it is to attend pool happenings. For our European counterparts, he helps them with expenses by giving them free entry fees and hotel rooms. He does the same for many, many American players, as well as a whole host of international pros. He does this so that his Derby City Classic and Southern Classic will be a pool mecca for everyone -- young, old, amateur, professional, railbird, stakehorse, action players, legends of the game, and young aspiring newbies. That's what Greg Sullivan is all about.

Some of the Bonus Ball players are the recipients of Greg's kindness. I would imagine it hurts deeply to have those very players not support him by coming to the Southern Classic. Bonus Ball, because of changing their schedule willy-nilly, has created a division.

Now, maybe those Bonus Ball players don't care about Greg Sullivan. They're in it to win it at the Bonus Ball venue, but me personally, I could never do that to somebody like Greg Sullivan. Johnny Archer in particular has been the recipient of numerous generosities of many American promoters, to include Greg Sullivan. A paid-for limousine request comes to mind at one event I attended.

This isn't big business here. We are talking about pool, a love most of us on this forum share. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here. I just don't think Greg Sullivan deserves this from the players. I am angry that Bonus Ball has created this problem. It's unforgiveable as far as I'm concerned.

Now, you can say they're making a business decision to benefit them all you want. At the end of the day, money to me doesn't mean much if I have to earn it at the expense of shooting a man down that has helped me throughout the years. These Bonus Ball players who Greg Sullivan has helped will be broke sooner than later when Larry finds out how he's been duped.

I'm starting to feel just as sorry for Larry as I am Greg. I'm not sure who to blame now. Those who provided advice to Larry and created this schedule should be tar-and-feathered. Now I understand more fully how the construction fiasco happened. Bad planning, bad advice, and bad administration. I hope the Bonus Ball investors take note of what's happening right now. Bonus Ball is a folly.
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JAM please, I am begging you, for the love of the Canadian friends you claim to have, please, stop trying to make your point by using the Canadian invasion ploy. It makes one think that because the United States failed in their invasion of Canada in 1812 you think it`s payback time. It has nothing to do with it. Leave the fact that it is an idea from Canada out of it. You make some very cogent arguments but you detract from your own position when you lash out like that.

I have never met Greg Sullivan but I am a huge fan of his tables. However, I am sure that his largesse to various players to help them and therefore assure their participation in his events has been a very helpful marketing tool in respect of the success of his table business. Both sides benefited. That said, I agree that past relationships should count for something and I would have preferred that BB schedule around this major event.
 
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Shocked

dynamite said:
jay i dont agree with you at all.. its wrong to offer bonus ball players free entry.. why not offer it to the guys with more expenses coming from europe/middle east/asia..or the guy thats scraped money together to come play great southern classic?

with or without bonus ball some players will miss the tournament it happens at every major tournament worldwide.. but still assemble great fields.You still got a great field Also...and bca will be a great field.

and the threat of bans to future events is low man..we not contracted to anyone in the pool world we all self employed and free to play when and where we can.

for one its a 10foot table and not really a invitational tournament its cost 1k plus expenses..

so lets say for example warren kiamco entered your tournament big foot one month ago ,but now wanted to pull out because cant afford to play or offered a gig somewhere else with guaranteed pay,you going to ban him from future tournaments?

everyone as different type of expenses mine would have been 3k to stay and play..

entry $600 i dont room share with anyone so that another $700 then 1k entry big foot
then spend eat out 3 times day plus drinks least another 700.. so 3k it would cost me.

am sure other players in same situation who just cant afford it.. personally me one the lucky ones, careful with my money so i can afford it... but this time i decided i not going to play...meanwhile i supported everyone of your events and never missed a 1k challenge fatboy or bigfoot not too many players can say that maybe 2 or 3 at most.

but if you dont want to invite me to future $1,000 entry invitational tournaments then fine..

plus all the players i spoke to love the game of bonus ball maybe they just telling you what you want to hear

i just want to play pool and help pool be in a better place in the future

Darren
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I couldn't believe Jay's post when I read it, The threat of not inviting Pro Players that verbally said they would attend the Big Foot. The same players that have supported Greg's events for many years.

I have been very active in my support of BB, before I even watched it. My belief is that American pool needs something new, And if BB is or isn't, I appreciate that some group has stepped up and is trying to bring our sport to a level it surely deserves.

After watching a few BB matches I am excited because it is exciting and new. I plan on watching tonight. I for one am glad you stepped up and gave the general forum your thoughts. This carry's more weight than any post on this forum.

Thanks Darren, The players need to unite. I can't believe the promoters are threatening the players that don't show. This is really not good for our sport. Good Luck with BB. I will continue watching as I think as the season gets going, It will gain speed.
Gary Lutman:):)
 
dynamite said:
jay i dont agree with you at all.. its wrong to offer bonus ball players free entry.. why not offer it to the guys with more expenses coming from europe/middle east/asia..or the guy thats scraped money together to come play great southern classic?

with or without bonus ball some players will miss the tournament it happens at every major tournament worldwide.. but still assemble great fields.You still got a great field Also...and bca will be a great field.

and the threat of bans to future events is low man..we not contracted to anyone in the pool world we all self employed and free to play when and where we can.

for one its a 10foot table and not really a invitational tournament its cost 1k plus expenses..

so lets say for example warren kiamco entered your tournament big foot one month ago ,but now wanted to pull out because cant afford to play or offered a gig somewhere else with guaranteed pay,you going to ban him from future tournaments?

everyone as different type of expenses mine would have been 3k to stay and play..

entry $600 i dont room share with anyone so that another $700 then 1k entry big foot
then spend eat out 3 times day plus drinks least another 700.. so 3k it would cost me.

am sure other players in same situation who just cant afford it.. personally me one the lucky ones, careful with my money so i can afford it... but this time i decided i not going to play...meanwhile i supported everyone of your events and never missed a 1k challenge fatboy or bigfoot not too many players can say that maybe 2 or 3 at most.

but if you dont want to invite me to future $1,000 entry invitational tournaments then fine..

plus all the players i spoke to love the game of bonus ball maybe they just telling you what you want to hear

i just want to play pool and help pool be in a better place in the future

Darren
Click to expand...

Darren, thanks for your reply. We can agree to disagree. I still think it was entirely wrong for the powers that be at Bonus Ball to begin their schedule several months late and then just ignore the Southern Classic and Bigfoot Challenge, scheduling matches right on top of our existing dates. That is not how things are done if you are sincerely trying to help the players and the sport. PERIOD!

No one told me what I wanted to hear. They told me what was on their mind and mostly it was about the longevity of Bonus Ball and how long they would continue to get paid. Please don't tell me that thought hasn't crossed your mind as well. And about the expenses to stay and play in the Classic. For many Bonus Ball players the Bigfoot Challenge is not an option, so you can chop $1,000 off the price tag to play in the Southern Classic right there. The great majority of mid level pros do share rooms and once again you have to eat wherever you are. That's not a legitimate expense of this event.

I guess I'm old school Darren. If I give my word I keep it. Kapeche
 
JCIN said:
You are right in that no one has do to anything. Its simply a matter of courtesy. Some people feel courtesy has no place in business which is fine. Others feel differently.

Back when BB was scheduled to start in November I had a player offer to miss the first week in order to play a TAR match. I told him no that I don't want to get into that game and that we could find some way around it in the future. I stopped trying to put together that match and moved on to something else. Now obviously its easier to do that than to reschedule thirty six guys but the principle remains the same. I could of been all "Look out for number one screw the world." but I wasn't.

Could very possibly be one of the many reasons I am not rich but I felt it was the right and fair thing to do for TAR, for the player and for BB. Personally I do not think BB will have much if any affect on the events this summer. Where it has gotten sticky is the manner in which things have been done. Its a small industry and its easy to for people to take things personally. It will all shake it in the end.

One good thing that may come out of the turmoil if BB does go away is I think there might be a legit attempt made at some form of organization in the US be it players, promoters or both. BB has proven players want a structure to play in and will get behind something if there is an upside and possible future in it.

As for jacking off millions it happens all the time. Look at all the bars and restaurants started as vanity projects that fail in the first year or two. Very easy to blow a couple mil there and it happens every day.

Edit to add: Just to show you I see both sides of this deal....if it was my millions in Bonus Ball everyone in the industry would hate me. I would lock the players up in exclusive contracts. You want to see Earl, Johnny, Thorsten or whoever in anything but a World Championship event or Mosconi Cup you are going to have to watch BB. They will be there every week just like the guys in the big sports. The fact they did not do this is one more reason I think they do not fully grasp what they are doing. Half measures rarely work out well in any endeavor. Think Dana White would let GSP go fight somewhere else or Steinbrenner is going to let Jeter take a week off to go play somewhere else?
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Exactly like I said about locking everybody up
 
jay helfert said:
Darren, thanks for your reply. We can agree to disagree. I still think it was entirely wrong for the powers that be at Bonus Ball to begin their schedule several months late and then just ignore the Southern Classic and Bigfoot Challenge, scheduling matches right on top of our existing dates. That is not how things are done if you are sincerely trying to help the players and the sport. PERIOD!

No one told me what I wanted to hear. They told me what was on their mind and mostly it was about the longevity of Bonus Ball and how long they would continue to get paid. Please don't tell me that thought hasn't crossed your mind as well. And about the expenses to stay and play in the Classic. For many Bonus Ball players the Bigfoot Challenge is not an option, so you can chop $1,000 off the price tag to play in the Southern Classic right there. The great majority of mid level pros do share rooms and once again you have to eat wherever you are. That's not a legitimate expense of this event.

I guess I'm old school Darren. If I give my word I keep it. Kapeche
Click to expand...

maybe so.. but every player i speak to at the venue love the game.

am sure u changed your mind before... esp when it involves money and your job.

well if i stay at home in vegas i cook so of course am saving money and i still pay my rent if not at home..sure that applies to lots of players also.

bonus ball is not a tournament its a league so of course its very difficult for them to avoid tournaments but the players did get the option,hence why lot of bonus ball players will attend great southern classic.. it probably affect 6-10days guys u lost.. not the end of the world because that happens anyway with or without bonus ball...

its obvious its a personal matter between you guys and the guys that run bonus ball.

but if you guys want to ban me and other players from future tournaments because this year some of us not play great southern classic go ahead. hope it makes you feel better.

darren
 
dynamite said:
maybe so.. but every player i speak to at the venue love the game.

am sure u changed your mind before... esp when it involves money and your job.

well if i stay at home in vegas i cook so of course am saving money and i still pay my rent if not at home..sure that applies to lots of players also.

bonus ball is not a tournament its a league so of course its very difficult for them to avoid tournaments but the players did get the option,hence why lot of bonus ball players will attend great southern classic.. it probably affect 6-10days guys u lost.. not the end of the world because that happens anyway with or without bonus ball...

its obvious its a personal matter between you guys and the guys that run bonus ball.

but if you guys want to ban me and other players from future tournaments because this year some of us not play great southern classic go ahead. hope it makes you feel better.

darren
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Your writing style -- punctuation, initial caps, sentence structure, grammar -- is completely different from your first two posts on this thread.

Must have been a long day at the Bonus Ball venue. :)
 
JAM said:
Your writing style -- punctuation, initial caps, sentence structure, grammar -- is completely different from your first two posts on this thread.

Must have been a long day at the Bonus Ball venue. :)
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miss spent youth :-)..
 
I appreciate the fact Darren got the balls to speak up and take point on the players side of things.

The players must have a gag order? Cause it's been silence from them for far to long. The others ain't half the man of dynamite.

I hope it all works out. I think you have a better understanding of the promoters and fan side of things.

Promoters and fans will support by attending, backing player entry fees and even an offer of $13,000 for bonus ball rent to free up players!

But, the players have to communicate! An old proverb! 'He who conceals his disease can never expect to be cured " just food for thought.

Kd
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
 
oneballeddie said:
Why did Bonus Ball accommodate the Ultimate 10-Ball Challenge but not the Southern Classic?
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Ultimate 10ball is a world ranking tournament and only affects one day of bonus ball.
plus big prize fund and runs from 16th-20th.

great southern classic 10 day tournaments so according to wpbltv wasnt possible to avoid clash but the guys that did want to go play do have the weekend off from bonus ball.

but like i said before they have a star cast field.
 
anyway i not here to argue or make enemies... just wanted to point a few facts out.

i hope bonus ball really works out its a great game and amazing venue and hope everyone supports it...

and i hope great southern classic /bca tournaments will be huge success also ..

see you all soon

darren
 
Kid Dynomite said:
I appreciate the fact Darren got the balls to speak up and take point on the players side of things.

The players must have a gag order? Cause it's been silence from them for far to long. The others ain't half the man of dynamite.

I hope it all works out. I think you have a better understanding of the promoters and fan side of things.

Promoters and fans will support by attending, backing player entry fees and even an offer of $13,000 for bonus ball rent to free up players!

But, the players have to communicate! An old proverb! 'He who conceals his disease can never expect to be cured " just food for thought.

Kd
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
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that is a bit harsh. the players have spoken out in favor of BB in the place they prefer to interact with their fans, Facebook.

let's all face the fact that here there is no protection from getting attacked and as such it lowers the incentive to participate.

and lastly it takes balls to invest a chunk of your life into an endeavour. why not allow the players to make their own choices without criticizing their every move.
 
dynamite said:
maybe so.. but every player i speak to at the venue love the game.

am sure u changed your mind before... esp when it involves money and your job.

well if i stay at home in vegas i cook so of course am saving money and i still pay my rent if not at home..sure that applies to lots of players also.

bonus ball is not a tournament its a league so of course its very difficult for them to avoid tournaments but the players did get the option,hence why lot of bonus ball players will attend great southern classic.. it probably affect 6-10days guys u lost.. not the end of the world because that happens anyway with or without bonus ball...

its obvious its a personal matter between you guys and the guys that run bonus ball.

but if you guys want to ban me and other players from future tournaments because this year some of us not play great southern classic go ahead. hope it makes you feel better.

darren
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None of this makes me feel good Darren. There is something called business ethics that are being violated here. I'm sorry you fail to grasp that. The players are the pawns in this scenario, you included.
 
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