Bonus ball the truth

iusedtoberich said:
No one is going to go to court, that is silly. Lee, maybe I have you confused with someone else, but I vaguely recall when you first joined AZ a few years ago, you were jumping up and down about suing someone. Also, regarding being forced to live in your car due to BB not paying you, I also recall you posting something similar about living in your car "before" the BB game was even heard of on here.

Just cut your losses and walk away. Doing more at this point is a waste of your time and effort and health. Think of it like you matched up in a gambling session, was outmanned, and lost. You don't go chasing your money, you just pack it up and live to fight another day.

Speaking of going to court, how many times has it ever happened in the pool world? I can think of only a handful:

1. The raid at Johnston City in the late 60's, early 70's.
2. Earl getting his million (I think that went to court) (1990's)
3. The customer who sued a cue maker on the peoples court TV show for taking years and not delivering a cue. (1990's)
4. The member here on AZ who won 5K first prize in a tournament out west and was stiffed, and sued Annigoni. He won, but I don't believe he collected any settlement. (Late 2000's)


Anything else? I don't recall any lawsuits over the IPT, just a bunch of threats. Doesn't seem like pool players ever really make it to court, just make senseless threats about it.
Click to expand...

You know saying it's happened several times before is the worst excuse ever. It's like the Obama people saying well Bush did it too. Hell they were both wrong let's stop them from continuing. I hope the suits get going and they teach the promoters you do have to honor a contract even if it is with a bunch of pool players.
 
I am going to hijack this temporarily cause I can't search Joe tucker from my ipad.
Lee - I need an official ruling on American Rotation.

used to be a race to 100 @ 2+/- hrs.

its apparently now race to 150.

after 3.5 hrs the score is 101/85.

CAN WE FRICKEN CALL IT QUITS?
 
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iusedtoberich said:
No one is going to go to court, that is silly. Lee, maybe I have you confused with someone else, but I vaguely recall when you first joined AZ a few years ago, you were jumping up and down about suing someone. Also, regarding being forced to live in your car due to BB not paying you, I also recall you posting something similar about living in your car "before" the BB game was even heard of on here.

Just cut your losses and walk away. Doing more at this point is a waste of your time and effort and health. Think of it like you matched up in a gambling session, was outmanned, and lost. You don't go chasing your money, you just pack it up and live to fight another day.

Speaking of going to court, how many times has it ever happened in the pool world? I can think of only a handful:

1. The raid at Johnston City in the late 60's, early 70's.
2. Earl getting his million (I think that went to court) (1990's)
3. The customer who sued a cue maker on the peoples court TV show for taking years and not delivering a cue. (1990's)
4. The member here on AZ who won 5K first prize in a tournament out west and was stiffed, and sued Annigoni. He won, but I don't believe he collected any settlement. (Late 2000's)


Anything else? I don't recall any lawsuits over the IPT, just a bunch of threats. Doesn't seem like pool players ever really make it to court, just make senseless threats about it.
Click to expand...

I had a 26 week contract. But they won't pay we know that, but the IRS and labor department are now after interested in their running of the company, might teach them a lesson they deserve. Its about principal now..
 
lee brett said:
I had a 26 week contract. But they won't pay we know that, but the IRS and labor department are now after interested in their running of the company, might teach them a lesson they deserve. Its about principal now..
Click to expand...

why will the IRS care ? do you pay US income taxes?
 
PINKLADY said:
I am going to hijack this temporarily cause I can't search Joe tucker from my pad.
Lee - I need an official ruling on American Rotation.

used to be a race to 100 @ 2+/- hrs.

its apparently now race to 150.

after 3.5 hrs the score is 101/85.

CAN WE FRICKEN CALL IT QUITS?
Click to expand...

hurts .............don't it
 
Hey, speaking of Hurts Don't it, you ask a person if they have ever had a Hertz Donut.

When they say, : what is a Hertz Donut", you give em a titty twister and say, "Hurts Donut".
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Hey, speaking of Hurts Don't it, you ask a person if they have ever had a Hertz Donut.

When they say, : what is a Hertz Donut", you give em a titty twister and say, "Hurts Donut".
Click to expand...

I bet you're a riot at parties

You must get all the girls with that classic as well
 
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JAM said:
You rang? :grin-square:

I have a lot of things I could say about Jose Parica as it pertains to the BCA's Hall of Fame, but the way things are today in the American pool world, Doug, anything I would write would be a futility in effort. :(

In recent times, after observing how grown men with big egos cling onto the testicles of other grown men, whether right or wrong, and then follow them like the trained little pigs that they are, it has allowed me to see more clearly what's happening. :o

So rather than have my words denied, ripped apart, or pooh-poohed upon by the multiple-identitied trolls, banned members posting, and testicle danglers, to include the Sasquatch men with big egos and little digits -- [The above is not directed at any one person in particular, but if you think it applies to you, then you are probably right] -- I feel that nobody could explain the impact of Jose Parica better than Keith McCready: :cool:

My foster father, Bob Wallace, owned a poolroom known as Hard Times in Newport Beach, the surfing mecca of the world. My favorite pastime when I wasn’t playing pool was fishing for shark and bonito at the pier. I was in the prime of my young career and used to boldly wear a T-shirt emblazoned with the words "The World's Got the 8," which was an open invitation to any living being on the face of the Earth.

Unbeknownst to me, the legendary "Filipino Invasion" was about to unfold, and I will never forget the first time I laid my eyes on the first wave to hit the shore: Jose "Amang" Parica.

Jose drifted in the side door of Hard Times unnoticed and abruptly parked himself on the rail. I checked him out in my peripheral vision while hitting balls, as he gingerly sipped on a hot cup of tea. And it wasn’t long before we exchanged eyeball contact.

Small in stature, he sure didn’t look like a pool player to me, wearing those hard leather shoes and a designer Ralph Lauren polo shirt tucked neatly in his pressed black khakis. So when he
politely asked me for the break playing 9-ball, I had no fear and readily gave it to him, not realizing who or what he was.

As the games progressed and I observed Jose’s shotmaking capabilities, I sensed a shark in the water. He moved the balls with grace and a perfect touch, and if he missed, I was staring at a safety or an impossible shot. It became clear that I was in a trap when the fickle railbirds, seeing me wounded, began to line up and bet against me. The final nail in my coffin was the inside floater, a shot Jose makes effortlessly to this very day.

Only a moment before Jose "Amang" Parica walked into my life, I considered myself invincible, like the novice surfer. But when I faced him on the field of green that day, there was something in his eyes that made me realize he could look on heights beyond my gaze, a characteristic of true champions. People say that he started the invasion, but I think they got it wrong. Jose "Amang" Parica actually was the invasion.

Of course, Jose belongs in the BCA's Hall of Fame, but if you think about it, the BCA isn't worth much these days as it pertains to pool, is it? So who cares anymore? The pool purists, so they can vote in their emotionless robotic darlings? The industry members, so they can vote in the dancing monkey who puts the most money in their pockets?

Keith and Jose have played against each other and as partners. They remain good friends today. :)
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Jenny, is this part of the upcoming booK? I'm sure its going to be great when it is finished?:)
 
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I can see this ending bad for Lee the IRS will want their money if he is a contractor its his to pay if he was an employee they will say he was over payed and owe them anyway.
 
PETROBOY said:
I can see this ending bad for Lee the IRS will want their money if he is a contractor its his to pay if he was an employee they will say he was over payed and owe them anyway.
Click to expand...

1) you can't get blood from a turnip
2) if that's the only "documented"/reported income, then he's due a refund - especially w/ all his exemptions, expenses, credits, etc (he could be due $3500!)
3) assuming it qualifies as US income
4) worst case scenario - he owes: $360 txs, IF....


....good luck with that!
 
I write this as someone who has been a friend of Lee's and still consider him a friend. But I also am still heavily involved in the WPBL and thought some things should be posted here to get the perspective of someone still working for the league.
First of all, Lee worked for us for all 6 weeks and was paid for that. I'm not sure what he was paid in cash, but the difference was made up when he was given the Bonus Ball sets, and he received enough to re-sell at their current retail price to make up the difference. Secondly, it was at HIS request that agreement was made - not under any type of pressure by the league. I know that because Lee spoke with me about that idea prior to doing so and he then proposed the idea to management after it became apparent they were going to be unable to pay us right away. I also opened the arena for Lee to pick up the boxes so he could sell them, and saw him sign the agreement accepting the conditions that he would take the sets in lieu of his remaining unpaid wage. He was adamant about getting the sets so he could start selling them as soon as possible. Again, that was all at HIS request, and also was all to be kept private.
I also have seen it posted here that other contractors (players) received sets in lieu of pay as well and that is simply not the case. Lee was the only one who asked and he was the only one who did this and it was not by pressure by the WPBL.
Also, as a contractor like me, the league has every right to decide when we are through working for them (unless something is in writing stating otherwise - which there isn't). I could wake up tomorrow and they could tell me I am through and I moved to Vegas as well - but there's nothing stopping them from doing that and they would owe me nothing if they did.
In Lee's case, his dismissal only happened anyway because he told them he wasn't going to be available on the dates we were finishing the season. It is well known by those who know him that he was giving lessons around different parts of the country and told them that would be the case when we resumed our season. It was only after a different referee was hired that he went public with these accusations.
Remember, we just finished 8 great days of matches and nobody else is raising these type of complaints against the league because the league has made things right with us. I saw Larry Chiborak write a lot of checks to a lot of people when he easily could have stayed hidden in Canada and never come back to face the music - but he did.
And this might be for another thread somewhere else, but where else can professional pool players go and get a check just for playing - regardless of the outcome of their matches? People have been quick to criticize Larry and the way things have turned out, and I know there are things he would like to have done differently. But why did he get into this and why is he back to the table again? It's because he loves the sport and badly wants to help the professional players. And also because trying to do something to pay everyone back is the right thing to do. I read a lot of what's here and certainly not everyone has to love our game or our league, but it seems a little hard to criticize someone for taking this kind of risk at the expense of millions of dollars so far. Players and staff have been paid six figures now to realize his dream - and he has been paid nothing. I hope people think of that before many more stones are thrown his way. Not everything has gone right, but the intentions are definitely in the right place.
Back to Lee. I wish him the best in whatever he pursues, but these things needed to be brought out in light of a recent onslaught of accusations against the WPBL and I thought it was time for someone close to the situation to step up to add a different point of view.

Steve Strain
Voice of the WPBL
 
Steve.... Have you seen the books?? The players and staff were paid 6 figures but 7 figures are missing if we are to believe what Larry said when he told everyone that the money for 2 seasons was in the bank... 2 million???

When they reincorporated leaving behind the old shareholders to allow new investors it was all just to get to 6 figures????? Barry blew the lid off this awhile back and his silence was bought according to Nathan's comments...... The money wasn't there according to Barry... IF it was at some point you may be incorrect about Larry hasn't made a cent.. Maybe he transferred his personal losses to the investors and recouped some of the money he had invested over the years... Just no way to know without someone looking and the SEC could be that someone....

I understand we don't know all of the facts on AZ but with enough brush strokes the painting starts to appear eventually....

If Larry sent a letter to the state dept on Lee's behalf stating that Lee was to be the referee then there may very well be something in writing even if Lee doesn't have a copy of the contract.....

What a wicked web we weave when... you know the rest.....

Chris
 
Vlr said:
I write this as someone who has been a friend of Lee's and still consider him a friend. But I also am still heavily involved in the WPBL and thought some things should be posted here to get the perspective of someone still working for the league.
First of all, Lee worked for us for all 6 weeks and was paid for that. I'm not sure what he was paid in cash, but the difference was made up when he was given the Bonus Ball sets, and he received enough to re-sell at their current retail price to make up the difference. Secondly, it was at HIS request that agreement was made - not under any type of pressure by the league. I know that because Lee spoke with me about that idea prior to doing so and he then proposed the idea to management after it became apparent they were going to be unable to pay us right away. I also opened the arena for Lee to pick up the boxes so he could sell them, and saw him sign the agreement accepting the conditions that he would take the sets in lieu of his remaining unpaid wage. He was adamant about getting the sets so he could start selling them as soon as possible. Again, that was all at HIS request, and also was all to be kept private.
I also have seen it posted here that other contractors (players) received sets in lieu of pay as well and that is simply not the case. Lee was the only one who asked and he was the only one who did this and it was not by pressure by the WPBL.
Also, as a contractor like me, the league has every right to decide when we are through working for them (unless something is in writing stating otherwise - which there isn't). I could wake up tomorrow and they could tell me I am through and I moved to Vegas as well - but there's nothing stopping them from doing that and they would owe me nothing if they did.
In Lee's case, his dismissal only happened anyway because he told them he wasn't going to be available on the dates we were finishing the season. It is well known by those who know him that he was giving lessons around different parts of the country and told them that would be the case when we resumed our season. It was only after a different referee was hired that he went public with these accusations.
Remember, we just finished 8 great days of matches and nobody else is raising these type of complaints against the league because the league has made things right with us. I saw Larry Chiborak write a lot of checks to a lot of people when he easily could have stayed hidden in Canada and never come back to face the music - but he did.
And this might be for another thread somewhere else, but where else can professional pool players go and get a check just for playing - regardless of the outcome of their matches? People have been quick to criticize Larry and the way things have turned out, and I know there are things he would like to have done differently. But why did he get into this and why is he back to the table again? It's because he loves the sport and badly wants to help the professional players. And also because trying to do something to pay everyone back is the right thing to do. I read a lot of what's here and certainly not everyone has to love our game or our league, but it seems a little hard to criticize someone for taking this kind of risk at the expense of millions of dollars so far. Players and staff have been paid six figures now to realize his dream - and he has been paid nothing. I hope people think of that before many more stones are thrown his way. Not everything has gone right, but the intentions are definitely in the right place.
Back to Lee. I wish him the best in whatever he pursues, but these things needed to be brought out in light of a recent onslaught of accusations against the WPBL and I thought it was time for someone close to the situation to step up to add a different point of view.

Steve Strain
Voice of the WPBL
Click to expand...


Steve you have wrote a lot of lies to make Nathan and Larry etc look good and me look like i am lying.

#1 i was homeless and desperate and had no option but to take ball sets due to phone calls with Larry
#2 i have a video of me being locked out the arena with you and never agreed to sign the video release,it was thrown at me by Dave and if i didn't then i got nothing off them what was i to do?

Remember the pic of the checks posted in July, well all them checks where for everyone, except my check was there (i have messages saved to prove this) Larry then threatens me i won't be paid unless i agree to the video release, which i never agreed


I had a 26 week contract which wasn't honored.

I gave them the dates for my coaching and was available to do the week, they hired Michaela and flew her from england instead of flying me from the East coast.

They fitted the dates in due to Nathan and Daves visa
running out.

I have numerous messages of abuse from July onwards from Nathan, Dave and Johnny. I was never told of any dismissal, but informed Michaela was taking my job and that was it, and told i am owed nothing.

Well if the labor department and IRS are now getting involved, then obviously they think that i do have rights and Chiborak and the WPBL should be investigated, i will let them decide who is in the wrong and show all of the abusive messages and all the evidence. It won't end well for the WPBL and i offered Larry to end it amicably and compensate me, he chose to not even reply to me. Funny how the labor department call me Friday and say they will be sending a warning letter to the WPBL, Larry, Kim and Nathan would of received this today, this isn't going away Steve, so my advice is to not listen to what they tell you and to advice them to clean up the shop, the tax bill Larry will owe and the fines for misclassification of employees is serious business and they won't take this lightly.

What did Nathan threaten me with on facebook "you do this and you will be the most hated man in pool, you will take away 30 odd players checks" If the WPBL have so much money, why they not pay my contract? good luck with the investigation, time to look for another job Steve.
 
Your post is appreciated, Steve. Still .....

Most of us on AZB feel it was unethical, and possibly criminal, that WPBL players were required to go back to Vegas just to receive moneys owed them. It is also our understanding that players who returned to complete the WPBL season were not paid $1,000 per match played as originally promised but less than half that amount. We're outsiders looking in, but if this is what actually happened, we are not out of line when we question the good intentions of the proprietors.

Like most, I'd like to see the WPBL come back from the dead and find its niche, but it is hard to imagine it.
 
The Renfro said:
Steve.... Have you seen the books?? The players and staff were paid 6 figures but 7 figures are missing if we are to believe what Larry said when he told everyone that the money for 2 seasons was in the bank... 2 million???

When they reincorporated leaving behind the old shareholders to allow new investors it was all just to get to 6 figures????? Barry blew the lid off this awhile back and his silence was bought according to Nathan's comments...... The money wasn't there according to Barry... IF it was at some point you may be incorrect about Larry hasn't made a cent.. Maybe he transferred his personal losses to the investors and recouped some of the money he had invested over the years... Just no way to know without someone looking and the SEC could be that someone....

I understand we don't know all of the facts on AZ but with enough brush strokes the painting starts to appear eventually....

If Larry sent a letter to the state dept on Lee's behalf stating that Lee was to be the referee then there may very well be something in writing even if Lee doesn't have a copy of the contract.....

What a wicked web we weave when... you know the rest.....

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris, the truth will come out when the labor department and IRS look at their books, and i show them all the messages and evidence of the treatment i got off them.

Steve is bending the truth to make them look good and funny how he writes it today after they would of received the letter off the labor department. Once again bonus ball trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

Steve you are an employee, employees can't be paid in merchandise...

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