9-Ball Position Play (What kind of english to use)

[Philthepockets]

Holy moly :yikes:
So much bad information for a learning player, but the real zinger of most pro's don't even know where they hit the CB lol, so lets teach a beginner TOI oh the irony.

 

[alstl]

The best way to determine that is to hit balls yourself.

 

[CJ Wiley]

That's one of the reasons TOI is so effective, you ALWAYS know

Holy moly :yikes:
So much bad information for a learning player, but the real zinger of most pro's don't even know where they hit the CB lol, so lets teach a beginner TOI oh the irony.

That's one of the reasons TOI is so effective, you ALWAYS know which side of center you're hitting......anyone "trying" to hit center doesn't know for sure...even top pros.

In all fairness, when discussing things that are "outside the norm" it usually takes a variety or combination of explanations before it's truly understood. I take it for granted since, in person I have a mental list of 3 themes of explanations, and a few variations of specific details that are proven (in my experience) to get someone in the "understanding mode" quickly.

I have heard other players compare my grip to the "V Grip", I know Mr. Brett, but don't know what he teaches. If there are similarities in my grip and the movement I suggest with the wrist/fingers I wouldn't be surprised, and like all my techniques they are what I personally use and have found to be the most effective.

I know my grip has been questioned and talked about, and I did go over it in my original 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' using a sword, however I resisted going into great detail.

Concerning firmness: I practice on both ends of the spectrum in this respect. I will squeeze the cue, cock it and play with a firm grip and sometimes I only use two fingers (using thumb/first two fingers) with a very light grip pressure if I'm working on Touch/Finesse/Feel shots.

I play with a firm, controlled pressure, that gives {ME} the ideal balance between power and touch. I use the same pressure when playing golf or tennis as well and played all three games at the same time for several years when in my early teenage years (although I played golf left handed).

I cock my wrist on all shots, and just less on finesse or slow rolled shots. However, my main objective, in Buddy Hall fashion is to hit most shots the same speed and as in my example cock up to eye level from my hip. Then I take my practice stokes BEFORE I get down on the shot, not after.

My main objective is to cock my wrist/fingers in such a way to create a track/slot that makes it virtually impssible to not hit the cue ball straight.

Yes, the stroke (for me) is a pushing motion that extends the tip through the cue ball. When players on here talk about pulling the cue they lose me because I can't relate to that at all. Notice I don't tell them they are full of "BS", "crazy", "trying to con people" "say they are talking nonsense", I JUST simply am "quietly confused" and can't relate to why they play in that way.

The TOUCH of Inside technique I have explained in many ways. First off, I DO NOT spin the cue ball, I just "cue it" to the inside. This creates a situation that slightly overcuts the object ball. When combined with this "Wrist/Finger Stroke" it is DEADLY ACCURATE and expands the Pocket Zone by an impressive margin. Someone that aims at the center of the pocket and uses center ball can't win with the 5/7 playing 9 Ball.

I'm not boasting, just stating a fact, when you learn to use the 3 Part Pocket System and look at the pocket as a Zone (and learn to pre set your hand so you hit the cue ball straight every time), the Game changes and becomes possible to play without error for hours at a time.

I'm not claiming to be "better" than the players {on this Forum} that don't understand my techniques, I'm simply playing a different Game than they are. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[DAVE_M]

That's the biggest load of crap, you've spewed out so far in 2014. This thread is about someone wanting to know if there is a way to see where pro's hit the ball. Not a self promotion for TOI. I'm not trying to bash you, CJ, but chill out with the self promoting.

"The hotcakes is the teacher"

 

[Kris_b1104]

Practice Practice Practice

I'm back from the pool hall and I got a good couple hours of practice, it was short, but sweet nonetheless. I've figured out that I don't practice nearly as much as I play 8ball with my friends. They're not as competitive as I am and every time I suggest playing 9ball they say it's boring. I'll continue to practice on my own to get better, since practice is what my idol SVB preaches.

So I went to the pool hall, with diagrams and looseleaf reinforcements and all, my first hour I used 2 reinforcements and placed the object ball and cue ball to set up a cut shot. I used center ball about 10 times in a row to see where the cue ball lands without any english, then I tried every other type of english, and surprisingly enough I found interesting results. Though the pool staff looked at me like I was crazy for putting reinforcements on the table.

My problem was that because I was only playing with my friends, I would go up and take a shot and when I miss I would go back and sit down, never understanding why I missed and what needed to be done to correct it. Practicing on my own really helps in that aspect as I got to see every single possibility of outcome(using the same speed of course).

During the next hour I threw out 2 balls randomly as someone above suggested and tried pocketing one ball while hitting the other ball afterwards with the cue ball. This was a much harder exercise and I only hit it about 20 out of 50 times.

The next 30 minutes I took out my diagrams of some of my favorite 9 ball match layouts and wrote down what the pro did on every shot and tried my best to duplicate. 30 minutes later and I was adding my own spin to it, no pun intended. I was choosing my own routes and still getting out. So I decided to kick it up a notch.

I spent my last hour playing the 4 ball ghost. Then moved to the 6 ball ghost after having no trouble, Next thing you know I'm up 4 games and then I missed. Decided to call it a day.

I feel with this regimen of practice, I'll get better in no time. I'm only 20 years of age and my goal is to become a B level player or close to it for now. I just need A LOT of practice and less friendly playing. Thank you all for the wonderful advice and let me know some of your thoughts about my practice.

 

[CreeDo]

Well, knowing tip placement is only half the battle.
There's so much other stuff that goes into moving the cue ball where you want.
Like speed and how fat you hit the cut.

Here's a super common shot... low outside (in this case, low right) on a rail cut,
to get the cue ball back towards the shooter.

From the red-dot cue ball position, you need only a little low-right.
But you could also travel on the same line using just low, or just right.
One pro might prefer to use mostly draw and the other might prefer mostly side,
so it's not that useful to know the tip placement.
More than one tip placement can send the cue ball along that double line.

From "A" you're a little too thin on the ball. You'd use only a hair of low but a ton of right.
And unlike the previous example, that's pretty much the only way to go along the black line.
You can't do it with just draw because draw has little effect here - the cut is too thin.
Draw would work better on a full hit because the object ball kills most of the cue ball's
forward momentum, allowing the backspin to take over.
So on this thin cut, right sidespin does almost ALL the work.

But even if you hit the that maximum right sweet spot, the same spot a pro would,
you might not get the cue ball to spin up above the side pocket. Why? Because speed
and thickness of hit matter also. The spin takes better if you hit softly - the CB
spends more time grabbing the rail. And you also get better results with the fullest possible hit.
A pro who feels confident in his accuracy will not only try to make the shot but also cheat the pocket,
Instead of sending the 3 into the middle of the pocket, he'd try to hit full
and allow it to bobble in, off the rail (as shown in the blue line coming from the 3).


From "B" you're too full on the ball. When you hit the object ball, almost all of the energy that was
in the cue ball will be transferred to the object ball, and only a little bit will be left to move
the cue ball around. So you need to hit the cue ball at warp speed to move it across the table.
Here, you can again use just side, or just draw, or a little of both.
But you would have to be careful to use only a little. If you hit full draw and warp speed,
the cue ball just sucks straight back towards where it started and then beyond.

Here too, you MUST cheat the pocket, this time along the red line, 'overcutting' the ball as much
as possible. This allows you keep more energy on the cue ball and less on the object ball.
Imagine what would happen if, instead of cutting the 3 along the red line, you cut along the blue line.
You'd basically be hitting the 3 right in the face. The cue ball wouldn't move sideways at all.
Even if you put tons of sidespin, it would just stop there and spin in place.

I know you were looking for an instructional book or video about the tip placement.
My recommendation: You can get the basics from the book "The 99 critical shots in pool".
Then for the more advanced stuff, get an instructor. Doesn't have to be a pro. The best player
at your local pool hall may be qualified (though be careful, some players don't understand
how or why certain things work, and may give bad advice).

An instructor will be able to explain to you why your results are different even if you hit the cue ball where he does.
("you're not hitting as low as you think you are" or "you need to hit softer or the spin won't grab", stuff like that).

 

[CJ Wiley]

I actually talked with the person that started the thread less than an hour ago.

That's the biggest load of crap, you've spewed out so far in 2014. This thread is about someone wanting to know if there is a way to see where pro's hit the ball. Not a self promotion for TOI. I'm not trying to bash you, CJ, but chill out with the self promoting.

"The hotcakes is the teacher"

I actually talked with the person that started the thread less than an hour ago. He was at that time taking a break from practicing TOI....he gave me his address and I'm sending him something that will help him understand his issues better and work through them quickly and efficiently.

I will give anyone a gift if they request it, it's really not mine to keep "if we don't give it away at some point we'll have it taken".....so is true knowledge, we're fortunate indeed.

Don't confuse me promoting the game with anything else, the TOI is a gift from the Game to me and I'm simply passing on the "present".....no cost, no pressure, no worries, just one pool player passing on knowledge to another.....'The Game is My Teacher'

 

[HawaiianEye]

That's the biggest load of crap, you've spewed out so far in 2014. This thread is about someone wanting to know if there is a way to see where pro's hit the ball. Not a self promotion for TOI. I'm not trying to bash you, CJ, but chill out with the self promoting.

"The hotcakes is the teacher"

CJ explained EXACTLY how HE did it! What MORE do you WANT? WHICH pro does the guy want to explain it to him? I haven't seen any OTHER pro come on here and explain how they did ANYTHING. I can understand the method CJ is using because I was using a similar method before CJ was even 10 years old.

CJ didn't INVENT this system...he just LEARNED it...either through instruction from ANOTHER person or from playing so much and watching that it finally "came" to him that it worked.

The FIRST guy I saw using this system or something very similar was the best money player I ever saw at the time. I have mentioned him in several threads on here before. This guy was using this BEFORE CJ was even 10 years old..he was from TX as well. The guy I'm talking about took down TONS of cash beating 99% of the people who would jump up to the table. The 1% he didn't beat were the ones who didn't want to "gamble" with him..they only wanted LOCKS.

I don't know CJ and I have never spoken to CJ except during these threads, so I'm not a "nut hugger" nor a "spokesman" for his products. I am JUST saying that he KNOWS what he is talking about. If I can understand it, so can you. I understood it before CJ understood it.

It may not be a method that will work for everybody, but I will be 60 years old in a couple of months and quit pool for over 20 out of the last 30 years and have only played a few hours on Sundays with BANGERS for the last couple of years and can still play EVEN or BETTER against the guy who just won the APA 9-ball league championship here a month or so back. This is on 9-footers...not bar boxes. He has either won the APA or been close the last couple years. Did I mention that I started wearing glasses during the last time I quit pool?

So let's add it all up. I'm old...I'm blind...I quit for many years...the playing conditions aren't what I grew up playing on..I don't have a perfect stroke anymore...I don't use Kamui chalk...I don't use Perfect Aim...I don't use CTE...I don't use any method that I ever saw on here or AS SEEN ON TV.

So HOW am I able to HANG with all these players that play way more than I do, are 20 or more years younger than me and still be competitive with them?

It is a "method". And I play with several different styles...as does everyone who has played for years. Some stick to one style and never change. I have found that the method that provides the MOST consistency when nothing else works for me is the style that is very similar to what CJ is preaching.

Take it for what it is worth. I'm no pro but if I can beat the APA 9-ball champion using it and only play funsies pool once a week something must be working.

When him and I play it is usually quite a few games over a couple hours of play. I have NEVER played worse that EVEN with him...MOST of the time, I think I come out a few games ahead.

The last time we played (a week or so back), we played a couple hours and I was winning the MAJORITY of the time and he WASN'T missing a LOT. I was just getting out almost every time there was a possible out. He even kept telling me that my "pocketing" and "position" was getting better and better". I told him I was using TOI (not because I was promoting CJ Wiley...this guy had never heard of CJ Wiley)...I called it TOI because I had NEVER ever heard a NAME for this style of playing before. The first time I EVER heard it mentioned was when CJ mentioned it on here back whenever it was.

I haven't received a dime from CJ or anyone else for this promotion,but if anyone wants to send me some bucks I'll sure spend them playing pool trying to come up with another system to tell you about.

Take it for what it's WORTH.

If Efren came on here and told me something that I KNEW works...AT LEAST FOR ME...then I would say Efren knew what he was talking about also.

 

[DAVE_M]

That's respectable that you would freely send something to better someone, CJ.

HawaiinEye.... I must have struck a nerve lol.... By the wwwaaaayyyy....

CTE and Pro Aim are also methods...

meth·od
ˈmeTHəd/Submit
noun
1.
a particular form of procedure for accomplishing or approaching something, esp. a systematic or established one.

I won't take it for what it's worth, because it's not worth anything to me. I never said CJ doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't know where you are getting that from.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I personally have a better touch when the cue ball feels heavier than 6 oz's,

I think I understand what you're asking. You want to know where they are hitting the cueball. You think you know where they are hitting the cueball, but the path isn't the same as yours.

But, you'll get a lot of helpful guidance from people who are in the same boat. 99% of players are in the same boat.

I think this is probably the best time to lean on a professional player for guidance because I believe your question is specifically on what the pros do as you're watching them. That's not to discount the top instructors who teach fundamentals and best practices, but aren't pro players. But, I think you're wondering something that is fair question: where are the pros hitting the balls. Anyone who dismisses this I don't think understands what you're asking. If I misunderstand, that's cool, too. I'm wrong plenty of times.

• Use english.
• Use the tip to control your path (that's paraphrased from CJ Wiley).
• The bread and butter shots of 9-ball include the blended use of english and speed to bring your cueball to and through the center of the table (that's from Jerry Brieseth).

Jerry had one of those short teaching clinics and I was his Guinea Pig shooters. By him telling me where to aim the tip to the cueball, he taught me more about "what the pros do when they try to get there" than I've learned from even watching pros closeup. Hitting a million balls and reading this forum never got me that information. And now what I think I saw with pros makes more sense.

My advice... you're in NY. You've got Fran Crimi and Tony Robles. Ask them about one shot you're thinking about and see what they show you. And you can PM me for a tip.


Freddie <~~~ and listen to CJ

I agree, both Fran and Tony are very capable and qualified instructors willing to help.

The main thing to remember is to build a foundation you don't do it with spin, you do it without spin. Then you have a "referential index" of what the cue ball will do naturally and what the "natural angles" truly are.

There are players that go through their entire life and don't know what a 'natural angle" truly is and use spin to "cheat the pocket" when they don't need to. This creates a much more unpredictable game and they suffer without "real eyesing" their core issue.

When a player practices using "NO SPIN" (what Efren told me it was) he will quickly build a base foundation of that the cue ball with do naturally. The cue ball will FEEL HEAVIER without spin.....the more you use spin to get around the table the lighter the cue ball will feel......is this a good thing?

I personally have a better touch when the cue ball feels heavier than 6 oz's, not lighter.......using TOI the cue ball feels like it ways a pound when done correctly.....of course it doesn't, but it does amplify your potential touch and feel. If you need more touch and feel in your game it's advisable to try for 3 hours....if you don't need it, then simply keep doing what you're doing, no harm, no foul. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[Philthepockets]

That's one of the reasons TOI is so effective, you ALWAYS know which side of center you're hitting......anyone "trying" to hit center doesn't know for sure...even top pros.

In all fairness, when discussing things that are "outside the norm" it usually takes a variety or combination of explanations before it's truly understood. I take it for granted since, in person I have a mental list of 3 themes of explanations, and a few variations of specific details that are proven (in my experience) to get someone in the "understanding mode" quickly.

I have heard other players compare my grip to the "V Grip", I know Mr. Brett, but don't know what he teaches. If there are similarities in my grip and the movement I suggest with the wrist/fingers I wouldn't be surprised, and like all my techniques they are what I personally use and have found to be the most effective.

I know my grip has been questioned and talked about, and I did go over it in my original 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' using a sword, however I resisted going into great detail.

Concerning firmness: I practice on both ends of the spectrum in this respect. I will squeeze the cue, cock it and play with a firm grip and sometimes I only use two fingers (using thumb/first two fingers) with a very light grip pressure if I'm working on Touch/Finesse/Feel shots.

I play with a firm, controlled pressure, that gives {ME} the ideal balance between power and touch. I use the same pressure when playing golf or tennis as well and played all three games at the same time for several years when in my early teenage years (although I played golf left handed).

I cock my wrist on all shots, and just less on finesse or slow rolled shots. However, my main objective, in Buddy Hall fashion is to hit most shots the same speed and as in my example cock up to eye level from my hip. Then I take my practice stokes BEFORE I get down on the shot, not after.

My main objective is to cock my wrist/fingers in such a way to create a track/slot that makes it virtually impssible to not hit the cue ball straight.

Yes, the stroke (for me) is a pushing motion that extends the tip through the cue ball. When players on here talk about pulling the cue they lose me because I can't relate to that at all. Notice I don't tell them they are full of "BS", "crazy", "trying to con people" "say they are talking nonsense", I JUST simply am "quietly confused" and can't relate to why they play in that way.

The TOUCH of Inside technique I have explained in many ways. First off, I DO NOT spin the cue ball, I just "cue it" to the inside. This creates a situation that slightly overcuts the object ball. When combined with this "Wrist/Finger Stroke" it is DEADLY ACCURATE and expands the Pocket Zone by an impressive margin. Someone that aims at the center of the pocket and uses center ball can't win with the 5/7 playing 9 Ball.

I'm not boasting, just stating a fact, when you learn to use the 3 Part Pocket System and look at the pocket as a Zone (and learn to pre set your hand so you hit the cue ball straight every time), the Game changes and becomes possible to play without error for hours at a time.

I'm not claiming to be "better" than the players {on this Forum} that don't understand my techniques, I'm simply playing a different Game than they are. 'The Game is the Teacher'

There is no " 3 part pocket zone " with 3-1/8" pockets from 12 ft lol so I cannot practice this besides most balls are missed because of cueing errors and if as you say most pro pool players don't know where they are hitting the ball most of the time what is the point.
And yes there are many skilled cueists that can hit center ball and know where they are hitting the ball.

 

[Atlatlien]

...especially if you're playing a player that makes you "come" with a great shot many times during the match.

There's a couple of different ways to read this sentence LMAO

Did you get put in a situation where you had to make a great shot, or did the other player make a great shot and then.... nevermind, my brain is still 15 years old.

 

[Kris_b1104]

I'm back from the pool hall and I got a good couple hours of practice, it was short, but sweet nonetheless. I've figured out that I don't practice nearly as much as I play 8ball with my friends. They're not as competitive as I am and every time I suggest playing 9ball they say it's boring. I'll continue to practice on my own to get better, since practice is what my idol SVB preaches.

So I went to the pool hall, with diagrams and looseleaf reinforcements and all, my first hour I used 2 reinforcements and placed the object ball and cue ball to set up a cut shot. I used center ball about 10 times in a row to see where the cue ball lands without any english, then I tried every other type of english, and surprisingly enough I found interesting results. Though the pool staff looked at me like I was crazy for putting reinforcements on the table.

My problem was that because I was only playing with my friends, I would go up and take a shot and when I miss I would go back and sit down, never understanding why I missed and what needed to be done to correct it. Practicing on my own really helps in that aspect as I got to see every single possibility of outcome(using the same speed of course).

During the next hour I threw out 2 balls randomly as someone above suggested and tried pocketing one ball while hitting the other ball afterwards with the cue ball. This was a much harder exercise and I only hit it about 20 out of 50 times.

The next 30 minutes I took out my diagrams of some of my favorite 9 ball match layouts and wrote down what the pro did on every shot and tried my best to duplicate. 30 minutes later and I was adding my own spin to it, no pun intended. I was choosing my own routes and still getting out. So I decided to kick it up a notch.

I spent my last hour playing the 4 ball ghost. Then moved to the 6 ball ghost after having no trouble, Next thing you know I'm up 4 games and then I missed. Decided to call it a day.

I feel with this regimen of practice, I'll get better in no time. I'm only 20 years of age and my goal is to become a B level player or close to it for now. I just need A LOT of practice and less friendly playing. Thank you all for the wonderful advice and let me know some of your thoughts about my practice.


^^^ My post on page 3 regarding my practice. Please let me know what you think of this routine. If there's anything I should change or add.

 

[Andrew Manning]

I can't believe how much wrong there is in this thread regarding what matters and what doesn't when it comes to achieving a certain cue ball path.

Tip placement matters a lot. Speed of stroke matters a lot. The specific combination of the two matters a lot; you really have to get both things exactly right in order to get a certain reaction out of the CB. But that's 2 variables.

The other things don't matter. Fluidity, purity of stoke, acceleration, grip, bridge length, follow through, wrist action; these are not things that affect the CB; they only make a difference insofar as they affect tip placement and stroke speed.

-Andrew

 

[HawaiianEye]

That's respectable that you would freely send something to better someone, CJ.

HawaiinEye.... I must have struck a nerve lol.... By the wwwaaaayyyy....

CTE and Pro Aim are also methods...

meth·od
ˈmeTHəd/Submit
noun
1.
a particular form of procedure for accomplishing or approaching something, esp. a systematic or established one.

I won't take it for what it's worth, because it's not worth anything to me. I never said CJ doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't know where you are getting that from.

What I meant in "take it for what it's worth" was that CJ charged NOTHING for his information and I charged nothing for saying that I agreed with what he said worked.

I also didn't mean to imply that you said "CJ doesn't know what he is talking about...."

I was just putting the comment to let people reading the forum know that his information does work.

It may not work for everybody or they may not feel comfortable using it over their current style, but it works for SOME people (me) and for some people at a VERY HIGH level (CJ).

With that being said, you can make your own judgement. Do you play WORSE than ME or as HIGH as CJ? If you play somewhere lower than me or higher than CJ please explain the style/method that is WORKING for YOU so that CJ, I, and everyone else on here improve our games. I will be looking forward to learning from you. Aloha.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I'll give him the 7 playing 9 Ball (Shane included).....any rules, on any table.

There is no " 3 part pocket zone " with 3-1/8" pockets from 12 ft lol so I cannot practice this besides most balls are missed because of cueing errors and if as you say most pro pool players don't know where they are hitting the ball most of the time what is the point.
And yes there are many skilled cueists that can hit center ball and know where they are hitting the ball.

Let me put it this way. If you have a Pro player tell you exactly where he hits the cue ball every time I'll give him the 7 playing 9 Ball (Shane included).....any rules, on any table.

If he's wrong in accurately communicating where he hits the cue ball he loses his turn.

What you're going to discover is the Champion players aren't concerned with {exactly} where they hit the cue ball, they care about the response they get off the object ball......this is why I like the Touch of Inside, because the response off the cue ball has NO SPIN.....this creates natural angles and aligns to my subconscious congruently...which enables super high levels to be reached. If someone does it another way that's fine, I'm describing how I have done it to get the effective results achieved.

'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[scsuxci]

This thread has gone very odd. the OP wanted some input and suddenly
its another ( shit on) CJ thread. I don't know CJ personally but haven't read
anything that would suggest anything else than him trying to help somebody,
like most of us are.
I don't know if something personal has happened with CJ and a bunch
of AZ'ers ,but it looks real obvious that there seems to be a witch-hunt
with no witch.
People can disagree with an opinion, but also stay tactful at the same time.

 

[grover]

I've watched almost every tournament match you can think of on Youtube, studying the patterns that pros use and how they get out. I pretty much know where they're trying to go and what is the best route, the only trouble I have is how they're getting there. Some shots are obvious like using inside english to go 3 rails on a thin cut shot, but most of the time the camera angle does not allow you to see exactly where the pros are placing their tip on the cue ball. So my main problem lies within knowing exactly where to hit the ball to get it to the next position, although I know where I want my ball. Is there any diagrams online that I can look at where they are showing you EXACTLY what type of english they're using to get to the next ball? Or any videos? Thank you very much.

stay in line and all you need is top or bottom.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I'm back from the pool hall and I got a good couple hours of practice, it was short, but sweet nonetheless....snip....

Kris, your practice session recollection literally put a smile on my face. I think it's the best I ever heard anyone practice.

Keep doing exactly what you are doing.

There is no substitute for learning on your own. You have that "aha" moment that you just don't get as often when someone instructs you.

Another very strong philosophy is to work on your own weaknesses. So when you are doing something like the 5 ball ghost and miss the shot or position, make a picture in your notebook. After just an hour of this, you will have a lot of shots you couldn't execute. Now, you KNOW those shots are your particular weaknesses, and you have a notebook full of them. Do exactly with these shots what you did with the other shots you repeatedly practiced, and learned.

Good learning to you

 

[HawaiianEye]

stay in line and all you need is top or bottom.

Using "no spin", "dead ball', "floating ball", "TOI", or whatever you want to call it enables you to stay in line more consistently if you ask me. If you are using this method, the ONLY spin or English you will ever need to use is when you get out of line. Otherwise you are using TOI with top or bottom.