How so? The first sentence of the op used the word, 'was', referring to blowd-up ball...meaning past tense/ done.
Nobody thinks it is worth the effort to resurrect it,
Bonus Ball - Thoughts After It All...
- Thread starter Fast Lenny
- Start date
How so? The first sentence of the op used the word, 'was', referring to blowd-up ball...meaning past tense/ done.
Nobody thinks it is worth the effort to resurrect it,
Lenny, you knew my position on Bonus Ball, well before you became involved in it. Please do not make me say, "I told you so"!
.. Of course, I was not the only one who saw the horrible business decisions, made by the promoter's, most of which have been (once again) re-stated in this thread... The worst of which, was trying to incorporate a brand new, somewhat confusing game !
I consider you a good friend, and you know I will support anything you do, in the way of promoting pool !...You are doing a great job with your outstanding efforts at streaming...However, we already have one party on here, (CJ) who constantly promises a "New, can't miss, concept" for the promotion of the game...So far, with all his 'vast knowledge' of the game, and his 'outstanding business acumen', he has come up with absolutely nothing..Zero, zilch. nada !...But in his defense, even Paul Newman, Tom Cruise, and Martin Scorsese, could only manage temporary spurts of interest !
Let me advise you again, you are probably beating a dead horse !.. The promoters of BB spent millions (?) trying to bring pool out of the doldrums...Even the big Poker boom, is now almost dead... I hate to see you wasting your time, and money, trying to do what the BB guy's couldn't do, even with all that cash outlay...Granted, they did everything as 'wrong' as they could have, with the possible exception of the 'team concept', and even that, they applied in the worst possible way !..And yes, building an arena, just off the strip in Las Vegas (of all places) was a real [sic] 'flash of brilliance' !
We have not had a good 'sit down', in quite a while...Lets get together soon, and let me bring you up to date, on some new concepts... I know you respect the Glenn family, and their intelligent approach to all things pool related..Let them be your inspiration to do something meaningful, (and profitable) in promoting your love for the game !
I know money is not your motivating factor, but I would really like to see you channel your efforts, in a direction that may at least give you a chance to prosper before you get too old, or become too disenchanted, with the game we all love !
Sincerely,
Dick
PS..Your 'PS' tells me you may not have learned anything from Nathan, and the BB guys..Do NOT put out teasers, and cloak everything in secrecy !.. Get your ideas out there ASAP, and see what the concensus is !..You can always just ignore the people, who don't have a clue anyway.. (at least its easier to tell who they are now
)PPS..I may have to demote you, to "Fairly Quick" Lenny !
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21-ball 8 ball. Maybe it would work. In one of the IPT finals, every game but one was either run out from the break or run out from the other guy's break. That one game went 1.5 innings. I think it has to get up to a couple of innings on average to be interesting to most; there needs to be interaction and a good chance not to get out from any shot.
You are a smart little fella.
I also agree pool isn't going to work in the mainstream. It is hard enough to get pool players to care. I personally never had any interest in watching bonus ball, and most of the people I talked to (serious pool players) felt the same. I also thoght it seemed pretty chessy. I wish it would have been successful, but I was almost positive that it had no chance.
I think pool could grow, but it is not going to happen by inventing new games to play. To me that almost shows signs of desperation. Most of the public do not know the rules to 8 or 9 ball...let alone trying to have them grasp a new game. I think a good documentary, reality show, or movie has a much better chance to reach the masses(or at least a small percentage), then bonus ball did.
Bonus ball was a decent game, actually. Required different skills, reduced the luck factor, forced players to shoot tough shots. Probably after a season there are a few rules that could use tuning, but still. The downside to the game was that there were a lot of rules and it didn't feel "natural" like 8-ball, 9-ball, 1-pocket, 14.1. It felt like it was designed by committee.
The production quality was OK, but the design and marketing choices were bad. Dumb looking uniforms, the hokey name "bonus ball", the cheesiness of it all.
The other problem is that pool is in an individual sport. In individual sports, spectators want to see who comes out number 1. I can't think of any individual sport that has succeeded with the artificial team concept. There is such a thing as team tennis, but nobody watches it, because tennis is not a team sport either. The exceptions are international special events like Davis Cup, Ryder Cup, Mosconi Cup, but those work because they are special and there is the international rivalry thing.
The production quality was OK, but the design and marketing choices were bad. Dumb looking uniforms, the hokey name "bonus ball", the cheesiness of it all.
The other problem is that pool is in an individual sport. In individual sports, spectators want to see who comes out number 1. I can't think of any individual sport that has succeeded with the artificial team concept. There is such a thing as team tennis, but nobody watches it, because tennis is not a team sport either. The exceptions are international special events like Davis Cup, Ryder Cup, Mosconi Cup, but those work because they are special and there is the international rivalry thing.
You are a smart little fella.
I also agree pool isn't going to work in the mainstream. It is hard enough to get pool players to care. I personally never had any interest in watching bonus ball, and most of the people I talked to (serious pool players) felt the same. I also thoght it seemed pretty chessy. I wish it would have been successful, but I was almost positive that it had no chance.
I think pool could grow, but it is not going to happen by inventing new games to play. To me that almost shows signs of desperation. Most of the public do not know the rules to 8 or 9 ball...let alone trying to have them grasp a new game. I think a good documentary, reality show, or movie has a much better chance to reach the masses(or at least a small percentage), then bonus ball did.
It's always the people involved.
Cheesy people create cheesy products that only cheesy people enjoy.
J
Bob,
Professional 8 Ball.
Give a try. A good game that combines straight pool and some one pocket type strategy. Not so easy to run out, even for good players.
The bonus is that everyone will recognize the game and it is a clear distinction from the amateur version. Much more difficult.
Bill S.
I really liked BB and the excitement of the game. I wish it were still on . Maybe some multi-millionaire will pick it up and get it running smoothly .
Wishful thinking I guess
Wishful thinking I guess
You're correct. When I say pool cannot work in the mainstream, I mean pool like we've seen on tv. There is room for growth but sadly we push away from the only positive aspect pool has ever had in the mainstream, gambling.
It's always the people involved.
Cheesy people create cheesy products that only cheesy people enjoy.
J
Thats a very 'cheesy' way of putting it !...Are you trying to make 'Peteypooldude', and 'Fairly Quick Lenny' feel bad ? :wink:
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Are you not the GUY who fight a dress code, but can not understand what advertisers, ad sponsors would shy away from people looking like they sleep at a RESCUE MISSION each night.
IMHO Pool will never be what it was in 1913 the year Mosconi was born, and he (willie) says in his book, pool has been in a downward spiral since 1913.
I posted this on Scott Frosts Facebook yesterday when he also brought the subject of Bonus Ball up. It was stated the fans ruined BB cause they didn't give it any support. I guess we are all gonna forget the history of BB and all the actions of the promoter/owner/key personnel of the organization. That would be convenient but just adding to the injustice.
I think that one of the takeaways form Bonus Ball, a sincere effort by some to revitalize Pool, is that what the pros want to play doesn't matter.
Here's what I wrote in December 2012:
I really wonder why the pros were even asked what game they want to play. The bonus ball proprietors always proudly note that some of the elite players are the ones who did much to develop bonus ball in its current form, labeling them some of the most intelligent people in the industry. Do major corporations approach new product decisions this way? Do they ask their research and development staff what they'd like to develop or ask their salesmen what they'd like to sell when deciding which products to develop and launch. No, they do market research and try to determine what products consumers would be willing to buy.
In fact, the best players, who have a legendary disconnect with the rest of the pool playing community, have shown no ability of any kind to identify what game potential fans want to watch. Anyone who has ever been around this sport knows that the pros want to play pool in whatever form maximizes their income. When the Camel tour had $1,600,000 added money per year, the pros sure did love nine ball, and when the IPT offered huge prize funds, they sure did love eight ball.
I am of the opinion that having the pros develop a game was fundamentally mistaken. The success of the venture lay in whether fans would buy the product, not in whether the game was one the pros enjoyed. It's an important lesson for the future.
Here's what I wrote in December 2012:
I really wonder why the pros were even asked what game they want to play. The bonus ball proprietors always proudly note that some of the elite players are the ones who did much to develop bonus ball in its current form, labeling them some of the most intelligent people in the industry. Do major corporations approach new product decisions this way? Do they ask their research and development staff what they'd like to develop or ask their salesmen what they'd like to sell when deciding which products to develop and launch. No, they do market research and try to determine what products consumers would be willing to buy.
In fact, the best players, who have a legendary disconnect with the rest of the pool playing community, have shown no ability of any kind to identify what game potential fans want to watch. Anyone who has ever been around this sport knows that the pros want to play pool in whatever form maximizes their income. When the Camel tour had $1,600,000 added money per year, the pros sure did love nine ball, and when the IPT offered huge prize funds, they sure did love eight ball.
I am of the opinion that having the pros develop a game was fundamentally mistaken. The success of the venture lay in whether fans would buy the product, not in whether the game was one the pros enjoyed. It's an important lesson for the future.
hmmmm...
Yes, I 100% want the dress code to look just like a homeless shelter. That's exactly what I want...
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The only way Bonus Ball would have REMOTELY been interesting was if Michaela was naked only wearing her white gloves. And even then, only SHE would be interesting.
With me, personally, she would have been interesting, interesting, interesting, very interesting, VERY interesting... and then, I'd probably suddenly lose interest.
But, that's just me. LOL
With me, personally, she would have been interesting, interesting, interesting, very interesting, VERY interesting... and then, I'd probably suddenly lose interest.
But, that's just me. LOL
From his perspective, I can see why he would think that. He's a player and that's what he does. I work in television so my perspective is going to be more towards the business aspect of what works on tv or even in the real world. I don't think the "fans" are the issue. You cannot force feed people things and force them to like it. It will blow up in your face.
hmmmm...
Yes, I 100% want the dress code to look just like a homeless shelter. That's exactly what I want...
Wannabe gangster/rapper maybe, certainly not mainstream.
J
Doesn't answer the question, unfortunately. Between the time the death blow is administered (which, in BB's case, could be said it was the birth of the event itself), and the quieting of the death throes (convulsions), it's technically not dead yet.
Is Lenny's post a sort of "pool newswire" that the BB thing is officially dead?
<tisk, tisk> But then again, you were in PR at one time.
-Sean
Do baseball hats and hoodies make you a wannabe gangster/rapper?
Well, not really. You *do* need pants falling down around your thighs, and some bling around your neck (a gold necklace with a clock), and the look would be complete.
-Sean