Backward baseball caps, "bling", and hoodies? Sounds like a "starter uniform" to me. :smile:
J
Bonus Ball - Thoughts After It All...
- Thread starter Fast Lenny
- Start date
Backward baseball caps, "bling", and hoodies? Sounds like a "starter uniform" to me. :smile:
J
Agreed. I think 8-ball is too easy for pros. Too many options to shoot other balls if you get out of shape, which seldom happens at that level. I do think adding more balls has merit. It would sure make for more congested spreads... big game changer. Interested in trying that out myself...
I think a good twist to the rules for pro-level 8-ball would be to incorporate some form of rotation rules and a 2-foul rule for ball in hand. Break 15 balls, but you have to shoot out your set with numerical order in mind. A Legal hit would involve some form of contact hitting the low ball from your set, During play you can hit your low ball first and sink one of yours and keep shooting, or you have the option to hit one of yours first and sink the low ball. All shots called. With 15 balls, it would be easy for people to measure their speed in the game.
As for BB, I personally enjoyed watching bonus ball and would consider keeping an open mind and trying it out for a season if there was a local league... As for the overall production of what we all saw, I think the camera work and audio was very well done. I would have liked to see classier outfits on the players. And while I didn't terribly mind the somewhat industrial nightclub feel to the set, it wouldn't have been my choice. Something in a minimalist/modern style, incorporating natural light colored wood perhaps?
If we can't LEAD with this in the USA and get sponsorship monies, take the idea to places were the game has mainstream traction with a "sporting" audience. Think bigger. I wonder if something like this wouldn't actually work better to pitch this league (slightly modified w/several games as suggest by OP) to an international television audience. With teams by city or country. Countries with large player pools can field as many teams as they can support with sponsorship. From a sales pitch perspective, targeting global companies as sponsors by touting an international audience might actually be an easier sell...? Lead with the World and I bet that will pull new, different viewers in the USA as well. It sounds TV for action junkies in the pool world will be satisfied by a reality TV show, but I think it will take something like an international sporting focused billiards league if pool is going to lose it's degenerate misguided-youth pastime stigma and become viewed as a popular cueing sport in this country.
And I'm not saying the Mosconi Cup should not be replaced. I think that event stands on its own.
8 Ball, 9 Ball or straight pool I would have paid for a subscription for sure. At least one season to see how much I used it. It can still be done. Find the next guy with cash to extinguish to take over the venue. Pay the players that need a job normal wages, whatever that is. It would have to be a toy for a rich pool fan though.
I am not sure where some of you are going with your post whatsoever. We all know Bonus Ball is done, I was just reflecting on certain things as the positive aspects which could be used for future endeavors and the negatives which caused it to fail. I don't think it is the best game but my favorite game would not work for TV either. As I stated I believe a variety of games in a 2 out of 3 type format with the team aspect would be solid. Have several tables going so you can switch to where the action is sort of like golf, the IPT actually did that I believe and I liked getting past the lull points.
As for pros not enjoying the game, Chris I am sure you can ask some who played it and some will say they did and others will say they didn't. It is like banks or some of the other games like 14.1 that you don't see guys matching up with for the cash but they do enjoy it, never said loved. I am just posting my perspective and opinion, I do not care who likes BB or doesn't at this point because its done and we knew it was an uphill battle from the start. I am not afraid of failure, I am more afraid of becoming the guy on the sidelines pulling for others to fail or talking about it and not being about it.
As for pros not enjoying the game, Chris I am sure you can ask some who played it and some will say they did and others will say they didn't. It is like banks or some of the other games like 14.1 that you don't see guys matching up with for the cash but they do enjoy it, never said loved. I am just posting my perspective and opinion, I do not care who likes BB or doesn't at this point because its done and we knew it was an uphill battle from the start. I am not afraid of failure, I am more afraid of becoming the guy on the sidelines pulling for others to fail or talking about it and not being about it.
I have no idea what you are referring to but if its about my P.S. in the OP which is not a big secret just not ready to be released as I am putting together a proper press release. It has zero to do with Bonus Ball and is a positive bit of fresh air which I will keep separate from negativity which I knew would come in this thread. It will not make me any money, it will take up a good deal of my time, I will need help from people on and off the forums to make it happen but will not cost them money and it will help those in the billiard industry to make money and bring new players in. All the hints I can give you on it but I am excited about it.JAM said:
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Sean, there was never an official announcement but as far as I am concerned it is but I have no clue if the venue is still even there in Vegas. The only thing I do hope is they try and get the footage on sports TV stations in other countries that will take it. Maybe they can do something with the numbers generated if there is any interest and then go to a sponsor to do something new such as a 2 out of 3 format with teams playing other games coupled with BB, get the players out of jerseys and into some nice polos. It is a long shot but at this point it is probably all they have to show for the investment they made into it.Doesn't answer the question, unfortunately. Between the time the death blow is administered (which, in BB's case, could be said it was the birth of the event itself), and the quieting of the death throes (convulsions), it's technically not dead yet.
Is Lenny's post a sort of "pool newswire" that the BB thing is officially dead?
<tisk, tisk> But then again, you were in PR at one time.
-Sean
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Do you think you would be able to break this 21 ball rack with a normal cue or would you need a different one? Maybe I should get to work Designing My Dream cue for this new game.
Oh look -- jsp proposed this game a while back in this thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=260933
I don't blame the fans or anyone on here for its downfall, it was not marketed properly and even if it had been it still had the odds against it. I don't blame anyone on here who hates the game for whatever reason or none at all because in the big picture they did not contribute to its failure. My opinion even then was 2 out of 3 format and showing several table so we could move from match to match keeping the action going. I don't think a pool endeavor like that will work in the US because of the bigger sports like the NFL, NBA and MLB here which has all the attention, it needs to be over in the Asian countries, Middle East and perhaps Europe for it to get some decent viewership numbers.
Lenny, you knew my position on Bonus Ball, well before you became involved in it. Please do not make me say, "I told you so"!
.. Of course, I was not the only one who saw the horrible business decisions, made by the promoter's, most of which have been (once again) re-stated in this thread... The worst of which, was trying to incorporate a brand new, somewhat confusing game !
I consider you a good friend, and you know I will support anything you do, in the way of promoting pool !...You are doing a great job with your outstanding efforts at streaming...However, we already have one party on here, (CJ) who constantly promises a "New, can't miss, concept" for the promotion of the game...So far, with all his 'vast knowledge' of the game, and his 'outstanding business acumen', he has come up with absolutely nothing..Zero, zilch. nada !...But in his defense, even Paul Newman, Tom Cruise, and Martin Scorsese, could only manage temporary spurts of interest !
Let me advise you again, you are probably beating a dead horse !.. The promoters of BB spent millions (?) trying to bring pool out of the doldrums...Even the big Poker boom, is now almost dead... I hate to see you wasting your time, and money, trying to do what the BB guy's couldn't do, even with all that cash outlay...Granted, they did everything as 'wrong' as they could have, with the possible exception of the 'team concept', and even that, they applied in the worst possible way !..And yes, building an arena, just off the strip in Las Vegas (of all places) was a real [sic] 'flash of brilliance' !
We have not had a good 'sit down', in quite a while...Lets get together soon, and let me bring you up to date, on some new concepts... I know you respect the Glenn family, and their intelligent approach to all things pool related..Let them be your inspiration to do something meaningful, (and profitable) in promoting your love for the game !
I know money is not your motivating factor, but I would really like to see you channel your efforts, in a direction that may at least give you a chance to prosper before you get too old, or become too disenchanted, with the game we all love !
Sincerely,
Dick
PS..Your 'PS' tells me you may not have learned anything from Nathan, and the BB guys..Do NOT put out teasers, and cloak everything in secrecy !.. Get your ideas out there ASAP, and see what the concensus is !..You can always just ignore the people, who don't have a clue anyway.. (at least its easier to tell who they are now)
PPS..I may have to demote you, to "Fairly Quick" Lenny !
I actually spoke with one of the Glenn family members two nights ago and we were doing some brain storming. Really need to start from the ground to make the game grow or get some fresh interest in it. We will get together for sure, I would enjoy a drink and I mean a drink with you, no drinking from the bottle into the wee hours. haha
Have a good day everyone, going to head out and play some pool and hope some of you will do the same. :wink:
Thanks for all you do Lenny. There might be some not so positive things said about Bonus Ball, but I for one, appreciate what you do. Now, go win some money, chump!
That post was about Scott's Facebook posts yesterday about this subject. I agree with your opinion as well.
Rock on, Lenny. I hope you find it rewarding.
The pool racket is a thankless job sometimes. I wish I had some of your enthusiasm and vigor to launch what I've been working on, but when I look at the return and other repercussions to follow, it ain't worth my time and money and grief. In your case, though, I hope it brings you joy and that it *is* worth it.
If promoters ever want a big product sale on TV or on streaming video or whatever they need to get away from the pay per view or subscription model completely, and into the selling of commercial time. Isn't the bellwether of a successful TV show whether or not you can sell enough commercials for that time slot to pay the bills?
No one wants subscription TV or internet or any pay per view except a few, a very few diehards. People want to turn on the TV and internet and watch for free, or as free as it can get with commercials.
Back in the day you could not watch your NFL team on TV unless it was a sellout x days in advance. Now they show your local team on local TV no matter if the stadium is half-empty or full. That is the current demand market - people will watch sports they like if it does not inconvenience them too much, such as forcing them to shell out some dollars and time to watch a sport in person.
People can see any number of sporting events 24/7 on TV for the price of watching commercials. Commercials are not a problem, some are pretty darn entertaining, the rest are snack or bathroom breaks. If pool wants to get on TV, make something that advertisers will buy commercial time for. This is not a difficult concept, though finding a salable event played on pool tables might be a long time coming.
No one wants subscription TV or internet or any pay per view except a few, a very few diehards. People want to turn on the TV and internet and watch for free, or as free as it can get with commercials.
Back in the day you could not watch your NFL team on TV unless it was a sellout x days in advance. Now they show your local team on local TV no matter if the stadium is half-empty or full. That is the current demand market - people will watch sports they like if it does not inconvenience them too much, such as forcing them to shell out some dollars and time to watch a sport in person.
People can see any number of sporting events 24/7 on TV for the price of watching commercials. Commercials are not a problem, some are pretty darn entertaining, the rest are snack or bathroom breaks. If pool wants to get on TV, make something that advertisers will buy commercial time for. This is not a difficult concept, though finding a salable event played on pool tables might be a long time coming.
And yet, producers are moving away from a dominant commercial based revenue stream to one that includes subscription, pay per view, or disc based sales.
Commercials haven't gone away, of course, and in many cases they reside next to other revenue models. If we were to take the major American sports as a model we would see a very diverse revenue stream. TV, of course, is responsible for the large influx of revenue these days. Television can be divided into broadcast tv (mostly commercial based) and cable television (commercial and carriage fees). The trend over the decades has been away from broadcast television and towards cable television. Aside from the NFL, no major American sport can be said to derive a substantial portion of their revenue from broadcast television. All of the other sports have moved towards a dominant cable television model. All of them have a subscription based model as well.
The point isn't a case of one or the other, although the amount of sports viewing that can happen through entirely commercial based revenue (i.e. throwing an antenna on your roof) is ever decreasing. We simply view American sports as being commercial based (and they certainly have a ton of commercials) because cable television is so ubiquitous that we forget to associate its cost as a subscription. Marketers exploit this by advertising services as 'free', such as WatchESPN and its derivatives. There is nothing free about this service; the additional cost is simply applied to the provider rather than the end user. The end user is certainly paying for it though: a large portion of the cost of your cable bill is sports based.
So, fee based viewing does work, and is a substantial part of the sports revenue model. What is true, as bonus ball found out (and the streamers here can attest), is that building a user base through such models is very difficult. Bonus Ball did fail in many ways, including its reliance on a fee based model (particularly its price), but its biggest failure was underestimating how long it would take before this venture became profitable. Sports viewing is largely culture based and culture is extremely slow in changing.
Here's the best way I can sum up my thoughts. I kind of enjoyed watching it when they had their playoffs or whatever, but since it's been gone I can't say that I've missed it at all. In the end it was a folly and somewhat of a distraction that caused a lot of problems in the pro pool world.
How can the "fans" be at fault for something the fans knew nothing about. Bonus Ball was so poorly marketed that I'd be surprised if 1% of the people who play pool fanatically in America even knew it existed. So if even the hardcore didn't know about it then what about the casual players and non-players?
Building stuff is EASY.
Selling it is hard.
And selling it is MUCH HARDER when it's a new widget no one has ever heard of.
Building stuff is EASY.
Selling it is hard.
And selling it is MUCH HARDER when it's a new widget no one has ever heard of.
In your post that started this you did say loved the game
Let's be real I can make a game and pay the pros they would play it
