wow SVB forfeits match vs Alcano

[amicenheimer]

I was responding to the statement of "this is exactly why we have rules." So in that context, yes a wrong had to be righted because it was insinuating that a wrong had occurred.

I get you're on the side of "these are the rules everyone plays by", and no, he didn't follow the rules. But, it's rather difficult to converse if you want to stand in the corner with your ears plugged screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH, HE DIDN'T FOLLOW THE RULES, BLAH BLAH BLAH, HE DIDN'T CALL THE 10 BALL, BLAH BLAH BLAH.

What is the point of the rule? To make sure people don't get lucky and can't cheat, that is my opinion anyway. I fail to see where this enforcing this rule was useful in this instance. I'm a spirit of the rules guy, I'm not saying that you're wrong cause clearly you aren't. It's the rules, but is it in the best interest of the game here?

Exactly! Well put!

 

[purpdrag]

Poor sportsmanship by Ronnie

My opinion is that even in a professional tournament with a call the 10 rule, players should be able to agree that you don't need to call the obvious shots. I think sometimes there is an understanding and professional courtesy among most of the players and Ronnie breached that.

It may have been technically acceptable to have called Shane on it but I say it was a scumbag move. At the very minimum Ronnie should have clearly stated at some point in the match if it was bothering him somthing like "Sorry Shane, I'd feel more comfortable if you would please call all of your 10 ball shots." He'd probably feel stupid saying that, and he should, but it's still way better than what appears to have happened, which is that he went to the ref instead of Shane and complained that Shane wasn't calling the 10 and please watch for it next time and call him on it.

Sorry that's just not how I roll. I think Shane gave Ronnie the benefit of the doubt since he (Ronnie) has been a top level pro for a long time that Ronnie wouldn't be a nit and he got burned for it. Shame on Ronnie not Shane.

I'm not even going to fault Shane for breaking down his cue (this one time) since Shane so rarely reacts like that and every now and again you need to make a statement.

Unrelated, but the table was an embarrassment to a pro tournament. In the 2 minutes I watched I saw the cue ball curve twice about 3 inches as it rolled to a stop.

 

[alstl]

The rules change all the time and that's what players meetings are for. I have played no-9 or 10Ball on the break, no-9 or 10Ball in the corner pockets where the ball are racked, but fine in any other pocket, all ball fouls, cue ball only fouls, break from the box only, break from any place behind the head string, the new break rule of three balls past the head string(bad rule).

The point being that its not poor sportsmanship on the part of the incoming player to point out a rule infraction. Yes he could have said no big deal, but this is business, this is how he makes a living and the checks can be few and far between at this level, this aint some regional tournament with two A-level players and a bunch of C-level players.

Its business and he played by the rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSHVp6VDGR0

8 ball rules change all the time but I was under the impression 10 ball rules were standardized worldwide. And, I thought it was call every shot, not only the 10 ball.


Maybe somebody needs to translate standard 10 ball rules to tagalog and send them a copy.

 

[runouteasy]

Why do you feel that some "wrong" had to be righted for the rule to be in place. Also, why do you feel that some rules are fair game to be ignored? Why do some have such problems with simply playing by the pre-established rules of the game??

And you wonder why the world thinks the US is a bunch of crybabys. Here we deny the truth and blame others for our failures.

 

[Solomon]

I can't really fault Alcano because he did call every one of his 10 balls even though all of his 10 balls were obvious shots. If anyone is to blame, it is a cross between Shane and the referee. Shane bares some of the blame for not realizing that he had to call the 10. The referee bares some of the blame because Shane's first win should have resulted in a warning or a loss of game.

I don't think it will hurt Shane in the overall standings. Sounds like he initially got pissed, but has since taken it in stride and should bounce back.

Personally, I would prefer if 9 and 10 ball were call all pockets. Not that one would need to call straight in shots, but I don't think someone (especially a pro player) should automatically continue shooting after lucking in a shot. After a shot is lucked in, I think their opponent should have the option to shoot or let the other person continue shooting (in the case that the cue ball is in a bad position for the next object ball).

 

[f210]

My opinion is that even in a professional tournament with a call the 10 rule, players should be able to agree that you don't need to call the obvious shots. I think sometimes there is an understanding and professional courtesy among most of the players and Ronnie breached that.

It may have been technically acceptable to have called Shane on it but I say it was a scumbag move. At the very minimum Ronnie should have clearly stated at some point in the match if it was bothering him somthing like "Sorry Shane, I'd feel more comfortable if you would please call all of your 10 ball shots." He'd probably feel stupid saying that, and he should, but it's still way better than what appears to have happened, which is that he went to the ref instead of Shane and complained that Shane wasn't calling the 10 and please watch for it next time and call him on it.

Sorry that's just not how I roll. I think Shane gave Ronnie the benefit of the doubt since he (Ronnie) has been a top level pro for a long time that Ronnie wouldn't be a nit and he got burned for it. Shame on Ronnie not Shane.

I'm not even going to fault Shane for breaking down his cue (this one time) since Shane so rarely reacts like that and every now and again you need to make a statement.

Unrelated, but the table was an embarrassment to a pro tournament. In the 2 minutes I watched I saw the cue ball curve twice about 3 inches as it rolled to a stop.

Where does it explicitly say that it was Alcano who went directly to the referee to point out Shane's error? I think you are assuming too much. Shane just said that the referee and Alcano told him to call the ten ball which he did not, so he was penalized. We do not have any proof that Alcano complained directly to the referee.

That is the difference between SVB and Efren. The same thing happened to Efren but he just shrugged, grinned and scratched his head in typical Efren fashion, and continued on. The next game, the crowd reminded him to call the 10 ball and Effie just laughed and pointed his cue. On the other hand, Shane commits a foul, get called on it by the ref and opted to quit. Yet some posters here are defending and glorifying his actions while the ref and Alcano are geting villified for following the rules. :boring2:

 

[Busboy]

Shane won the previous rack and shot the 10ball in front of the same ref and nothing was said.

Honestly this is the nittiest shit rule in the world. I would have quit too. Calling the balls eliminates luck, no luck was involved here.

What he said

 

[ejasons]

For everyone who is complaining about the call being nitty -- where do you draw the line (and why is it you who gets to draw the line)?

Per the Mosconi Cup non-call, why shouldn't it be a foul if the cue ball touches the player's cue? Then, should a foul be called if the player's clothing touches the cue ball? What about if they accidentally lightly tap the cue ball during their warm-up stroke? Or just double-hit the cue ball a little bit?

Seems a lot easier just to apply the rules in the way that they are written. Then, just like golf, the players would adjust pretty quickly, and there wouldn't be all of this nittiness...

With that said, I do agree that it isn't right for the ref to apply the rule unevenly, and that not calling the obvious 10-ball wouldn't be a foul under the standard set of rules...

 

[BRussell]

Watch Efren match with Rodney, Efren called all 10 balls the obvious and none!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ3MCCFp0NI

Yeah it's clear to me even from watching Alcano call all of his 10-balls that this was certainly a rule in this tournament. However, it should also be clear that Shane didn't understand that this was the rule, as he didn't call his other 10-balls, and the ref didn't say anything. It is a deviation from the standard rules, after all. Were the rules written out somewhere? Not on the tournament website from what I could see. Shane can be faulted for not knowing, or not asking when he saw others calling the 10-ball, but if the tournament directors didn't make it clear then Shane can only be faulted so much.

Also, as cleary put it, it's the nittiest shit rule in the world.

 

[Icon of Sin]

I repeat POOL IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A MEMORY TEST! The ball was made in the intended pocket CLEARLY. A ref was there to verify it. It's a NIT MOVE whoever pulled it.

This.

Can't blame Shane for not wanting to play with some bullshit like that happening...

 

[genomachino]

Bottom Line is.........

I couldn't do that to anyone in any tournament.

Could You.

EXACTLY.

Ronny showed his A__ and Shane rightfully showed the whole tournament and the world what he thought about it.

Good Job Shane. Your the man.

Qualify and win this thing now my friend....

 

[AtLarge]

I highly suggest you watch the entire match. Shane hardly ever actually called a pocket unless he was having to make a choice. Watch rack 5 take place. Shane jumps the one in without calling it. Shoots the two without calling it. Shoots the 3 without calling it. Basically Shane didn't get called on his previous 'fouls' with the ref watching. Why suddenly on the 10 ball?

Please see my post #155.

After the first time you cordially mention to the opponent that he needs to call the pocket per the rules. ...

Yes, that would be nice. Something along the lines of: "Hey, Joe, in this tournament they're making us announce or point to the pocket for the 10-ball. OK?"

Way to miss the point. The ref is a nit. Why? Because there were plenty of other shots not called, and were pocketed without a warning. ...

See post #155 above.

I once had a guy let me shoot the wrong ball in a 9-Ball game and I forfeited and told him if he needed to win that bad, he needed it more than I do... So here you go... Ever since I play the guy in a tournament, I play nothing but hide the cue ball and get one ball in hand after another. Finally, he got mad and said why are you playing safeties every shot when you can easily make the ball. I said just like you did me, nothing in the rules say you have to tell me that I am shooting the wrong ball and nothing it the rules say I can't play safe on every shot.

Well, I'd say you were doubly wrong. First, pool is mental as well as physical. It's nice if your opponent warns you that you are about to shoot the wrong ball, but he has no such obligation (and might not even notice in time). You committed a mental mistake by not seeing the lowest-numbered ball, and you have only yourself to blame. Secondly, playing safe on every shot in your next match with him, to somehow exact revenge or teach him a lesson, was just juvenile.

8 ball rules change all the time but I was under the impression 10 ball rules were standardized worldwide. And, I thought it was call every shot, not only the 10 ball. ...

The WPA rules are the so-called "world-standardized" rules. And, yes, it is call shot on all shots (except on the break) -- "the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious." Note the last 5 words I quoted.

But the WPA rules are by no means used universally. Sometimes 10-Ball is played without requiring any shots to be called, sometimes it's call shot and call safety (Predator Tour), sometimes it's WPA rules, sometimes it's modified WPA rules (as, apparently but not definitely, in this event -- with the extra requirement on the 10-ball), and on and on.

 

[Neil]

I couldn't do that to anyone in any tournament.

Could You.

EXACTLY.

Ronny showed his A__ and Shane rightfully showed the whole tournament and the world what he thought about it.

Good Job Shane. Your the man.

Qualify and win this thing now my friend....

Like someone else said, if it was Earl or Mike D., you would be singing a different tune.

 

[AtLarge]

Anyone know whether Shane won his next match after the concession? It was to be against Angelo Ariola many hours ago, but I can't find any updated brackets.

 

[Black-Balled]

Maybe I was wrong about Ronnie....

Really disappointed..

Naw, I don't like that. Ronnie has no more right to overlook the infraction svb made than to say he does not have to give up ball in hand after he fouls.

Players don't make the rules, the play under them.

And now...to read the rest of the thread

 

[John Brumback]

Pretty simple really..you either have to call it or you don't. If it's call the shot...then he fouled if he didn't call it. Pool rules are pretty lame tho,so who the hell knows John B.

 

[Black-Balled]

I highly doubt that Shane and Alcano are buddies.

Alcano is about the weirdest, demented Pinoy out there. For good luck this guy pulled all his teeth for Christ sake to be more like Efren. Must be on some wild shit to do that. I would bet Shane wants nothing to do with guys like Alcano.

The Naj seems to know little of much that he speaks of.

 

[arps]

Ronnie was calling his 10-ball shots. i would assume shane noticed that.

 

[itsfroze]

=============

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

The standard rule in call-shot games is that the shot needs to be called only when it is not obvious. That would be why obvious shots before the 10-ball were not being called in this event. But it seems that this event had an additional rule requiring overt calling of the 10-ball. If so, Shane should have known about it -- from the players' meeting, or from written materials, or from his friend in the blue shirt, or from the referee the first time Shane failed to call it. This was Shane's second match of the event; what happened regarding this rule in his first match?

Please see my post #155.



Yes, that would be nice. Something along the lines of: "Hey, Joe, in this tournament they're making us announce or point to the pocket for the 10-ball. OK?"



See post #155 above.



Well, I'd say you were doubly wrong. First, pool is mental as well as physical. It's nice if your opponent warns you that you are about to shoot the wrong ball, but he has no such obligation (and might not even notice in time). You committed a mental mistake by not seeing the lowest-numbered ball, and you have only yourself to blame. Secondly, playing safe on every shot in your next match with him, to somehow exact revenge or teach him a lesson, was just juvenile.



The WPA rules are the so-called "world-standardized" rules. And, yes, it is call shot on all shots (except on the break) -- "the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious." Note the last 5 words I quoted.

But the WPA rules are by no means used universally. Sometimes 10-Ball is played without requiring any shots to be called, sometimes it's call shot and call safety (Predator Tour), sometimes it's WPA rules, sometimes it's modified WPA rules (as, apparently but not definitely, in this event -- with the extra requirement on the 10-ball), and on and on.

Thanks for taking to time to explain something I already am very aware of. And thank you for not addressing the issue at hand. The issue is as follows: the ref did not call Shane on all his previous 'fouls'. Why is it so hard to grasp that when suddenly the game ball is made that a foul is called, that isn't a little bit suspicious to you? Notice Ronnie's actions and the ref's actions? That's where the problem lies. Neither of them in the previous 8 racks (foul was called in ninth game) had decided to warn or remind Shane that all shots must be called? I call shenanigans.