Predator Revo shaft full review and deflection test

Cardigan Kid said:
Hey HawaiianEye, much respect to your game and I value your opinion on this.

Oscar Dominguez plays a "slightly modified" Z2 shaft (smaller than 11.75mm)
Shane plays a 12.2 mm cuetec R360

(Info from two interviews by Melissa Little in the Cue Times Billiards News volume 15 issues # 6&7 )

Professional players have had a history of modified cues to their preference.

Earlier you said you played with a 14 mm shaft. Do you still currently play that size, or did you settle into a different spec?
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I prefer a 14mm still, but I had my last 14mm shaft refinished and they had to turn it down to 13mm to even it out. It was over 30 years old. My newer cues only came with 13mm or a bit less, but I still would get a 14mm if I had another custom cue made.

I'm using a Predator 314-2 FAT shaft at the moment. It is 13.2mm and it feels "thin" to me.
 
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Scott Lee said:
Cardigan Kid...That is not what I meant. By "fitted" I mean getting a Revo shaft that will fit the pin on my cue. I'll be playing with the same standard shaft that everyone else has, and the same ones that were at the Expo last weekend.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Scott, thought I read the Revo was only available as a shaft for the LE?

2nd what pin ? Predator site reads only unilock.

Charlie
 
Z2 is 11.75 mm diameter.
Revo is 12.9 mm diameter with the same low deflection/squirt as a Z2 for those that want a larger diameter shaft without having to adjust your aiming.
Buy what you desire.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I prefer a 14mm still, but I had my last 14mm shaft refinished and they had to turn it down to 13mm to even it out. It was over 30 years old. My newer cues only came with 13mm or a bit less, but I still would get a 14mm if I had another custom cue made.

I'm using a Predator 314-2 FAT shaft at the moment. It is 13.2mm and it feels "thin" to me.
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Very cool and thanks for the info. I dig how you say the 314 fat feels thin to you. It just seems so massive and yet it shows how different players settle in on one size.

I just saw this....

http://youtu.be/sBDhO_EDsRw

At 4:00 point....

Like you, Rodney Morris plays 13.25mm because of his "long fingers" and prefers the larger size.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
Very cool and thanks for the info. I dig how you say the 314 fat feels thin to you. It just seems so massive and yet it shows how different players settle in on one size.

I just saw this....

http://youtu.be/sBDhO_EDsRw

At 4:00 point....

Like you, Rodney Morris plays 13.25mm because of his "long fingers" and prefers the larger size.
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I have small hands and worked in a pool hall for years as a kid and teen and had my choice of any taper and weight I wanted. I've played with cues that were as light as 12 ounces and as heavy as 22 and every possible shaft size. My favorite is 21 ounce and 14mm shaft and I settled on that as a teen.
 
That video with Rodney is interesting.

The last time I talked to him he was using the Poison cue that they sponsored him with.

At that time, he told me he preferred a 12.7mm shaft and a Triangle tip and he has always said he liked stainless steel joints. Rodney has said numerous times that he has better feel and control with a steel joint. He had a Szamboti for many years.

He doesn't use LD shafts.

That was a couple years ago.

If my memory is correct, I think he is using a new 4-point cue with a stainless steel joint now from the most recent tournament streams I've watched. See below:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e_aUvl-e9DE
 
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HawaiianEye said:
That video with Rodney is interesting.

The last time I talked to him he was using the Poison cue that they sponsored him with.

At that time, he told me he preferred a 12.7mm shaft and a Triangle tip and he has always said he liked stainless steel joints. Rodney has said numerous times that he has better feel and control with a steel joint. He had a Szamboti for many years.

He doesn't use LD shafts.

That was a couple years ago.

If my memory is correct, I think he is using a new 4-point cue with a stainless steel joint now from the most recent tournament streams I've watched. See below:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e_aUvl-e9DE
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Yes, sir. He definitely changed up. In the lag at the very beginning of the video, there is a clear shot of the side by side comparison to Dominguez cue (which we know is a modified Z2). Rodney is also playing with white ferrule not the black from the what's in the case video. The steel joint and linen wrap are clear as well, another difference from the older video.

So he's gone smaller over the years, from 13.2mm to 12.75mm. Thanks for the link and info. All this leads us back to the Revo discussion, in that, is a shaft that can't be modified or changed a good investment if ones persuit of the game could possibly change their preferred specifications over the years as we have seen with Rodney?
 
Cardigan Kid said:
Yes, sir. He definitely changed up. In the lag at the very beginning of the video, there is a clear shot of the side by side comparison to Dominguez cue (which we know is a modified Z2). Rodney is also playing with white ferrule not the black from the what's in the case video. The steel joint and linen wrap are clear as well, another difference from the older video.

So he's gone smaller over the years, from 13.2mm to 12.75mm. Thanks for the link and. info. All this leads us back to the Revo discussion, in that, is a shaft that can't 13 be modified or changed a good investment if ones persuit of the game could possibly change their preferred specifications over the years as we have seen with Rodney?
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The new cue he is using looks to have at least a 13mm shaft. His hands are much bigger than mine and it doesn't look to be a thin shaft.

The Poison cue he had when I talked to him was a production cue. Maybe he had worn it down to 12.7mm and it had started out at 13mm. I know he said it was 12.7mm when I asked him.

Edit: I wrote down the specs when he told me and I found my note. I could have bought the cue. The date was June 25, 2012. It was the Rodney Morris signature cue, 19.8 ounces, Triangle tip, 12.78mm ferrule and had a leather wrap. Maybe he told me what the actual size was and maybe it wasn't really his preference, but what he was using at that moment.

It was this model cue with a black leather wrap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Off-New-...Micarta-Signed-by-Rodney-Morris-/220893473474
 
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HawaiianEye said:
The new cue he is using looks to have at least a 13mm shaft. His hands are much bigger than mine and it doesn't look to be a thin shaft.

The Poison cue he had when I talked to him was a production cue. Maybe he had worn it down to 12.7mm and it had started out at 13mm. I know he said it was 12.7mm when I asked him.

Edit: I wrote down the specs when he told me and I found my note. I could have bought the cue. The date was June 25, 2012. It was the Rodney Morris signature cue, 19.8 ounces, Triangle tip, 12.78mm ferrule and had a leather wrap. Maybe he told me what the actual size was and maybe it wasn't really his preference, but what he was using at that moment.

It was this model cue with a black leather wrap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Off-New-...Micarta-Signed-by-Rodney-Morris-/220893473474
Click to expand...

This isn't meant to be an attack on you, but how can you even begin to think you can discern the measurement of a shaft by watching a video?
 
Cardigan Kid said:
Spent enough time with Ira Lee of Molinari with his predator prototype in January at Turning Stone classic. We talked about all of this and then some.

I cant understand how you think it's narrow minded to wonder about something so basic as shaft diameter.

Why did a rep at SBE tell the previous poster that no plans for size change? Does predator not want people waiting to buy the size they prefer?

Believe me, I'm all about finding out the details and not jumping to conclusions. Isn't that was this thread/forum are for?

So you say the link is cut and dry about shaft diameter?

Sounds to me they are dead set for now on 12.9mm for the general public with no plans or foreshadowing in regards to size modifications in the future per the links you posted.
If size modification was part of the future in Revo technology. Why not tell us right on the website?
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1. It is narrow minded to think that Predator is NOT going to make any other sizes, when they did not disclaim that. It is still very possible. This is why we think you are upset that they are not offering YOUR preference CURRENTLY.

2. The rep at SBX said that there were no plans AT THIS TIME, not NEVER.

3. I am glad you are all about the details, just hope you find the right ones to chew on.

4. Someone here said it best in understanding that with all of the time and money Predator has put into something revolutionary, maybe they felt this was the best option for a first offering. I do not see this as a marketing ploy by any means. The diameters you complain about are diameters of a completely different material. Remember the REVO shaft is completely synthetic and obviously would not carry the same properties as wood.

Not to mention it is very smart to offer a portfolio of options for players to choose from to match their preferences. Because they offer different diameters does not exactly promote that one diameter is better than the other.

You have to be a little more open minded and not so jaded..
 
I guess Predator wants the "early adopter money", you know, the guys who have to have the newest, most high tech stuff, nevermind the cost. Once those suckers have been bled dry by the limited cues, they'll go after the rest with the 500/600 dollar shaft. Once they saw that people actually bought 300+ dollar shafts made of matchwood, they knew the sky was the limit. And before anyone jumps down my throat over this, I have owned Predators and still own a Z2 and a 314, and the wood in the newer ones is definitely different... I bet we'll see 800 dollar production shafts pretty soon (yes I do know about the custom guys).

It's a good thing that they innovate, though. Even if this shaft will probably not be to my liking (based on specs and vids so far), I bet a lot of people will like it. I do hope they have realistic expectations, though.
 
trob said:
At the expo there only available with the cue. The will be available to buy just the shaft soon. I don't know if I could play with a black shaft lol
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This is what Predator tells me about the availability of the shaft:

At present, we do not have a timeline for the shaft only launch, however, it is not scheduled for this calendar year. Our focus is quality assurance and therefore, will limit the production to provide the best product available. At this time there is no official MSRP of what the shaft will be sold at. Please keep checking our website for any updates.

I get the feeling they may be about to price the "Club Pool Player" right out of the Predator family. I'd love to try one, but not at the price I get the feeling they're gonna be

So, any guesses on how long before we see a Chinese copy?
 
erhino41 said:
This isn't meant to be an attack on you, but how can you even begin to think you can discern the measurement of a shaft by watching a video?
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Look at the size of his hands and his bridge and when they have a view of him shooting with the line of the cue straight down at the cue ball. I have thicker shafts than most people use and it looks bigger to me like what I see when I sight down my cue than when I use my thinner shafts.
 
This is just the beginning. I for one am grateful that Predator did the R & D to make a decent composite shaft. These shafts have revolutionized golf. They allow the manufactures to achieve results that simply aren't possible with wood. I predict we will see more and better as time goes on, from LD shafts to jump cues and break cues.

Composites have revolutionized the golf club industry. I expect them to do the same, over time, to our game. If enough effort and money is put into this technology, I expect they will eventually replace wood shafts all together.
 
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TATE said:
This is just the beginning. I for one am grateful that Predator did the R & D to make a decent composite shaft. These shafts have revolutionized golf. They allow the manufactures to achieve results that simply aren't possible with wood. I predict we will see more and better as time goes on, from LD shafts to jump cues and break cues.

Composites have revolutionized the golf club industry. I expect them to do the same, over time, to our game. If enough effort and money is put into this technology, I expect they will eventually replace wood shafts all together.
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I agree.


Except I don;t think they will replace wood shafts altogether. There will still be a market for traditional cues,but it will eventually become a niche market. And nobody is going to throw away their vintage shaft to screw on a composite shaft.

But definitely things are changing. Certainly the performance characteristics of such materials have taken numerous industries by storm.




Interestingly, some will say such things as graphite and carbon fiber are more environmentally friendly, saving the trees. They apparently haven't asked themselves where the raw materials come from or how they are processed.


Also interesting is that the US is not known to have very much in the way of graphite deposits.



.
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
I guess Predator wants the "early adopter money", you know, the guys who have to have the newest, most high tech stuff, nevermind the cost. Once those suckers have been bled dry by the limited cues, they'll go after the rest with the 500/600 dollar shaft. Once they saw that people actually bought 300+ dollar shafts made of matchwood, they knew the sky was the limit. And before anyone jumps down my throat over this, I have owned Predators and still own a Z2 and a 314, and the wood in the newer ones is definitely different... I bet we'll see 800 dollar production shafts pretty soon (yes I do know about the custom guys).

It's a good thing that they innovate, though. Even if this shaft will probably not be to my liking (based on specs and vids so far), I bet a lot of people will like it. I do hope they have realistic expectations, though.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on your first point about those who have to have the newest stuff.
But the part with "people actually bought 300+ dollar shafts made of matchwood"... The shaft doesn't cost 300+$ because of its wood. A team had to do the R&D in order to determine the right specs for the shaft and it's components. Those people deserve to be paid...

How much do you think it cost to build a smartphone if you have all the right components? Pretty much nothing I would guess.. But somebody had to sit down and design the CPU for example.... and re-design it because the first prototype had some problems etc...
 
AlienObserver said:
I agree with you on your first point about those who have to have the newest stuff.
But the part with "people actually bought 300+ dollar shafts made of matchwood"... The shaft doesn't cost 300+$ because of its wood. A team had to do the R&D in order to determine the right specs for the shaft and it's components. Those people deserve to be paid...

How much do you think it cost to build a smartphone if you have all the right components? Pretty much nothing I would guess.. But somebody had to sit down and design the CPU for example.... and re-design it because the first prototype had some problems etc...
Click to expand...


And that's where the eventual competition comes from.

Illegal "clones" and legal products that save on expense by capitalizing on the developments others pioneered without actually copying or stealing directly.

We see this all the time in various industries.


R&D depends on ROI. Lots of companies go bust when their R&D does not lead to ROI. In fact, there is a lot of attrition in this way. Lot's of entrepreneurs go through multiple start ups with multiple capital sources before that actually hit on something.


New technology is typically very expensive for this reason. But once it hits the market, and hopefully the cost of the R&D is offset, and eventual competition gets started, the prices come down.
.

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Wood/composite

If you don't mind please imagine the stroke of the cue ( slow motion ) the energy of the cue hitting the cue ball and tell me what a composite shaft can do that a solid maple or a laminated LD shaft cant do..????

A composite shaft cant match the performance or the price of a good old fashion solid maple shaft .

If they could they wouldn't need some fancy sales pitch.

I don't own a predator shaft, but I do get them in for repair .
Hands down a Predator has the record of being the worst warped shaft I have ever chucked up in any of my lathes.

I am sure lots of predator owners don't have issues with their shafts .

Honest to God if some of the guys that I worked with at a machine shop would of seen the tenons on some of these Laminated LD shaft they would of hung it on a wall as a joke.

Personally I have never seen one solid maple shaft ever come out of china that was straight...........................
Just a plain maple shaft , no clear resin sprayed on it, not cored just maple .
And China cant handle it.................... every solid maple shaft they make warps.....

They have no choice but produce some kind composite shaft that will stay straight because they cant handle doing maple shafts correctly.
 
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