Ginacue pleads guilty

Poolplaya9 said:
Whether or not people like the law or think it is a good one is one thing. But what is clear and not debatable by anyone that has seen the evidence is that he is guilty, and that there was no "extortion" or "entrapment" as has been thrown around. Drama much? Let's at least stick to the facts and reality.
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Reality is an old guy gets held up by the federal mafia while a completely
criminal, immoral, and unethical B!tch named Hillary is being propped up
for president by this same mafia.

drama my a$$....wake up...those are the facts and reality.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
It actually doesn't really make much sense at all if you think about it. The evidence is overwhelming that Ernie knew for many years that it was a serious federal crime to sell ivory that was intended to leave the country and yet for many years he chose to do exactly that anyway. What was the California law going to do to change anything regarding this transaction? Make this already illegal transaction illegal?

Ernie didn't care when this type of transaction was illegal under the far more serious

federal law/jurisdiction so what makes you think he would suddenly care when it

becomes illegal under a less serious state law? Common sense says that in regards

to this particular transaction he didn't care about the impending state law any more

than he cared about the old federal law that already covered it. The impending state

law appears to be little if any factor at all here.
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Ginacue was never implicit in shipping cues out of the country. Never did they ship a

cue over sea. When a buyer wanted a cue with Ivory, they had to find there way to

his shop and pick it up. He knew it was illegal to ship cues out of the country. If I

went to Colorado, purchased all sorts of marijuana, with an out of state ID, came

home and got caught, would the seller be responsible? They knew I had a out of state

ID? I don't think so. But if they were shipping out of state they then become complicit

in illegal trade. He had invoices for cues with ivory, to people out of the country, but

never mailed or other wise sent them there. That is what he is being convicted on.

Selling to people that have the intention of breaking the law.
 
It most certainly does. Laws are created for a reason and our uninformed liberal government thinks this is a way to save elephants. That being said, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Btw, I love elephants and I'm totally against killing one unless it's for a good reason.

chefjeff said:
None of this has anything to do with "saving" any species.

Jeff Livingston
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Poolplaya9 said:
It actually doesn't really make much sense at all if you think about it. The evidence is overwhelming that Ernie knew for many years that it was a serious federal crime to sell ivory that was intended to leave the country and yet for many years he chose to do exactly that anyway. What was the California law going to do to change anything regarding this transaction? Make this already illegal transaction illegal?

Ernie didn't care when this type of transaction was illegal under the far more serious federal law/jurisdiction so what makes you think he would suddenly care when it becomes illegal under a less serious state law? Common sense says that in regards to this particular transaction he didn't care about the impending state law any more than he cared about the old federal law that already covered it. The impending state law appears to be little if any factor at all here.
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Or maybe he still thought he lived in a free country where property rights are respected and protected not taken away by govt.

I wonder if he went to 'Nam?

Jeff Livingston
 
Poolplaya9 said:
Whether or not people like the law or think it is a good one is one thing. But what is clear and not debatable by anyone that has seen the evidence is that he is guilty, and that there was no "extortion" or "entrapment" as has been thrown around. Drama much? Let's at least stick to the facts and reality.
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Got ONE victim of his that was hurt by his sale of his property?

If so, what restitution does he owe them and for what damages? How much money does he owe his victims? Who should he apologize to?



Jeff Livingston
 
Poolplaya9 said:
For it to make sense you have to assume that he was trying to ditch as much ivory as possible before the state law because he was planning to stop using ivory altogether.
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One need not assume that, nor the rest of your assumptions. He could have been just selling off some material to cut his losses "just in case". One need not assume whether or not he would follow the new state law either. He only needed to perceive it would be smart to lighten up his material inventory "just in case".

Your logic statements truly fail. You place unnecessary requirements on your statements.




But, as you agreed. It really does not matter.



I have said this before, and I will say it again. I don't like the attention this draws. In other threads about this I stayed out or only minimally commented. And I have never mentioned his name or the name of his company in my posts. This forum is indexed by Google and one need not be a member to read these threads.


I don't know the gentlemen that got the cue maker busted, but like some others here I know of them. Personally I have a dim view of good US made cues disappearing in to Asia. But that's another topic. These gentlemen have a problem, and it is bigger than getting busted moving some material internationally that they were not supposed to. Much bigger.

I live in several "worlds":
1) My personal life which is inside my home with my wife and kids.
2) My biker life which is part of me everywhere, all the time, and in which I have a sworn mission to a brotherhood.
3) My professional life in which I uphold the Hippocratic Oath.
4) My pool life which is more or less as a hobby now but is truly a deep passion and love for the sport and the cues.

In all four of those worlds the gentlemen that tried to move those materials are not welcome. In one of them I would be obligated to help them if they absolutely needed me but I sure as hell would not be obligated to like them and would be perfectly free to tell them how I feel. I publicly invite them and advise them to stay the hell out of my worlds.




.
 
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gutshot said:
It most certainly does. Laws are created for a reason and our uninformed liberal government thinks this is a way to save elephants. That being said, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Btw, I love elephants and I'm totally against killing one unless it's for a good reason.
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Why wouldn't you expect me, a 40 year student of govt crime, to understand how it really operates? ...and WHY it does what it does.

I like elephants and don't want them to go away and that's why I have posted about the ONLY way to save the elephants and that is to make them property, just as all profitable and sustained species are property.

No one is going to jail for leather pool tips to "save the cows." Why is that different for cows than elephants? Think, people, think!

Govts across America have been doing their best, for decades, to kill pool (among many other things). This is just another step in that process.

Jeff Livingston
 
Well, all I have to say about this is that there is not a one of us who has not violated some statute -- perhaps on just a technicality -- that could have had serious consequences if the authorities had decided to play hardball with us. Perhaps at work or maybe at play. And given the past and current culture of pool, I know all of us move in a milieu in which players, backers, and rail birds are known for far more egregious offenses that what tripped up Ernie. Let he without sin...

Ernie is 75 now and should be taking a career victory lap for his craftsmanship, what with the completion of his 50th anniversary cues. Instead he will be a convicted felon. And not a single elephant will have been saved.

I wish Ernie well and hope he gets an appropriately light sentence. I also hope that this does not break him and he recovers from this nightmare whole. Having spent small amounts of time with him on several occasions, I feel he has the strength and will for this to be so.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Well, all I have to say about this is that there is not a one of us who has not violated some statute -- perhaps on just a technicality -- that could have had serious consequences if the authorities had decided to play hardball with us. (snip)
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A book came out a few years ago saying that each of us commits 3 felonies a day.

https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent-ebook/dp/B00505UZ4G#nav-subnav

With everyone being "guilty," anyone of us can be targeted when an unelected govt bureaucrat deems it necessary for his "job."

This watering down of the meaning of common law and what designate real "crime" means there are few objective standards left in the "justice" system anymore, so anything goes now.

Each of us is a potential target. Beware what you post and what you buy/sell...in America, land of the free. Kinda sad, isn't it?


Jeff Livingston
 
Poolplaya9 said:
For it to make sense you have to assume that he was trying to ditch as much ivory as possible before the state law because he was planning to stop using ivory altogether. And to make that assumption, you also have to assume that it was because he was wanting to abide by the new state law. Considering that for many, many years he never cared the least bit about the federal law with even more severe penalties this would be a pretty silly assumption to make. It just doesn't come even remotely close to passing the common sense or logic test. This transaction would have occurred exactly when it occurred and exactly how it occurred even if the state law had never come along. You are right though, it really doesn't matter at all why he did it. He knowingly broke the law, got caught, and is dealing with it.
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He and other prominent cue makers have done business with PC cues for years. This is not a one time occurrence. Everybody knows they are doing wrong.

Don't be the least surprised if he got a few months in prison....the government will make an example of him I expect.
 
lfigueroa said:
Well, all I have to say about this is that there is not a one of us who has not violated some statute -- perhaps on just a technicality -- that could have had serious consequences if the authorities had decided to play hardball with us. Perhaps at work or maybe at play. And given the past and current culture of pool, I know all of us move in a milieu in which players, backers, and rail birds are known for far more egregious offenses that what tripped up Ernie. Let he without sin...

Ernie is 75 now and should be taking a career victory lap for his craftsmanship, what with the completion of his 50th anniversary cues. Instead he will be a convicted felon. And not a single elephant will have been saved.

I wish Ernie well and hope he gets an appropriately light sentence. I also hope that this does not break him and he recovers from this nightmare whole. Having spent small amounts of time with him on several occasions, I feel he has the strength and will for this to be so.

Lou Figueroa
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Convicted felon = he legally can't have a firearm or vote?

It's a sad demise to another illustrious cue makers career.

At least he didn't promise a 'Design Your Dream' cue and not deliver.;)
 
noMoreSchon said:
Ginacue was never implicit in shipping cues out of the country. Never did they ship a

cue over sea. When a buyer wanted a cue with Ivory, they had to find there way to

his shop and pick it up. He knew it was illegal to ship cues out of the country. If I

went to Colorado, purchased all sorts of marijuana, with an out of state ID, came

home and got caught, would the seller be responsible? They knew I had a out of state

ID? I don't think so. But if they were shipping out of state they then become complicit

in illegal trade. He had invoices for cues with ivory, to people out of the country, but

never mailed or other wise sent them there. That is what he is being convicted on.

Selling to people that have the intention of breaking the law.
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Prosecutors quote Chady saying Ernie packaged the cues so they could be smuggled...duct tape and a duffel bag. Which obviously wouldn't work anyway. He plead guilty because they is no beating this in trial. He took a plea bargain. In November we will see what that was.
 
said it from day one

guilty..........justice prevailed

still wish him no jail time, but ya....guilty as sin
 
Can someone clearly explain the ivory law/rules now --

If I have a cue that was made prior to 2016 with ivory in it, can I sell it within the USA

If I have a cue was made prior to 2016 with ivory in it, can I sell it outside the USA
 
Hope the libertards are happy.... using pre-ban LEGAL ivory, gets you a felony... deleting e-mails, and allow classified information to be freely distributed, putting the US in hot water, and killing US people by not giving them support, gets you a presidential bid...

I am pulling for Assange to have something big...

JV
 
Ok, as a cuemaker I also saw the writting on the wall with the new laws so I hurried up the last cues with ivory before the new laws went into effect. So yes I am pretty sure that is what he and several others of us have done with our LEGAL ivory so that we could minimize our loses. I also personally think that these 2 got caught in Florida (where Ernie has shipped the cues to) doing some exporting and were made to do the dumbest shit any asian trying to take ivory back home would do....take it on a damn plane through customs! Now with the new laws in CA, it makes owning anything with ivory a bigger pain in the ass to have than an automatic weapon so I dont blame him for selling what he had left to these guys, but a papertrail talking about it??? Just damn! It was legal ivory bought and sold before the law went into effect but the rule of cause and effect comes into play here. So yes the CA law going into effect caused him to hurry and sell as many ivory pieced cues as he could before they were made worthless by the govt. The thing that keeps bothering me is how the investigators report reads....sounds like either she was profiling or was working with another agent in another state to trap Ernie doing what he has been doing for years which in his mind was perfectly legal. Except the email chain and testimony of the 2 asians that were caught/setup. This is just my opinion though.
 
asiasdad said:
Ernie knew this, Ernie didn't know that
:barf:

WTF people,

The poor old guy just got held up for extortion
and all you can do is whine ???

How about stepping up and helping him with the costs ?

Ernie,

If you are reading this, please contact me and I will pay
you up front for a cue as we discussed. I no longer care if
it has any dead elephant in it or not.

Danny Hepler
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So in your book, if a guy is a great craftsman, and old, he can blatantly ignore the laws?

Did you read the complaint? He didn't get extorted, he is just realizing the magnitude of his ignorance of the law and how easily "deniability" can fail, once they get suspicious and start digging.

Read the complaint affadavit - they have him dead to rights and apparently he has been ignoring the law for years. Integrity is what happens when no one is looking.

It is a constant source of amazement to me how so many people here think that because a guy can make great cues he should not be held to the normal standards of honesty, ethics, and the law. It seems to be a constant and recurring theme.
 
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