I like. I sure wish the DCC reported actual results. Do you have Banks matches in? I cashed one year I think it was 2013 or so. One of my proudest moments in my pool career
Pia Filler Makes History as First (and only) Female Pro on WNT
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
It likely is a huge boost for the Fillers. Traveling together, not having to worry about your significant other, possibly in a different part of the world...
Hopefully they are still in the "honeymoon" phase and haven't started getting on each others nerves yet!
Heck, if you told me I had to work and travel with my ex wife, I woulda thought I was being punished for something! Hmm...maybe that's why she became an ex...
Hopefully they are still in the "honeymoon" phase and haven't started getting on each others nerves yet!
Heck, if you told me I had to work and travel with my ex wife, I woulda thought I was being punished for something! Hmm...maybe that's why she became an ex...
I have zero problem with women being added to the WNT. I think it's great for Pia Filler. And it would be interesting to see top men and women play each other regularly. I very much enjoyed the mixed doubles matches like the one put on by Predator earlier this year.
But consider me very skeptical that many of the best women could compete - and win - with the best men on a regular basis. There is no evidence of that in any other professional or high-level amateur athletic endeavor. Not a one.
Is pool different? To some extent. Even a large extent. Muscle, mass and size matter less. (Sentence edited).
But make no mistake. Pool involves athleticism. There are some shots men can make that I've not seen any women do. Ever. Think an SVB, Cory or De Luna power draw. And in most athletic endeavors - tennis for one- stamina is a big difference. Could women handle the rigors of a major 256-person open just as well. Or the crucible of the Premier League of Pool?
I don't see women consistently potting a ball on the break as much as men either, but perhaps there are statistics that show otherwise.
For argument sake, let's say the top 16 or so women were good enough to play regularly on the men's tour, and even win some events. Would I want that? I don't know. There definitely is a different dynamic when men play women instead of men vs. men and women vs. women.
Guess the only way to find out is to let them play ...
But consider me very skeptical that many of the best women could compete - and win - with the best men on a regular basis. There is no evidence of that in any other professional or high-level amateur athletic endeavor. Not a one.
Is pool different? To some extent. Even a large extent. Muscle, mass and size matter less. (Sentence edited).
But make no mistake. Pool involves athleticism. There are some shots men can make that I've not seen any women do. Ever. Think an SVB, Cory or De Luna power draw. And in most athletic endeavors - tennis for one- stamina is a big difference. Could women handle the rigors of a major 256-person open just as well. Or the crucible of the Premier League of Pool?
I don't see women consistently potting a ball on the break as much as men either, but perhaps there are statistics that show otherwise.
For argument sake, let's say the top 16 or so women were good enough to play regularly on the men's tour, and even win some events. Would I want that? I don't know. There definitely is a different dynamic when men play women instead of men vs. men and women vs. women.
Guess the only way to find out is to let them play ...
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You may be interested in some discussion of these issues here
Badpenguin
Well-known member
It is no surprise that someone with your avatar would take that position.
Sorry, had to take the snipe.
Thanks, Mike. Nobody in this thread is suggesting that Pia plays like Han Yu, Siming Chen, Chezka Centeno, Rebecca Chou or Kelly Fisher.
.... but anyone who doesn't believe that Pia is an outstanding cueist, even by men's standards, is badly misinformed.
Based on the stats you've provided, it sounds like Pia's Fargo will be rising in 2024.
Stu, you are wrong. I have a lot of respect for women's pool. I watch them all the time. I've been to one of their WPBA U.S. Opens. They are damn good pool players. I'm just not ready, nor should I be, to say they are the equals of the men players.
Maybe after a woman or two has won on a men's tour/tournament trail with any consistency should we even be having this conversation. When Pia Filler snaps off a win, then we'll talk more. Probably won't happen any time soon. It's hard enough nowadays for the top men to win one.
They have their own tournaments and have their own divisions in men's tournaments. They want a piece of the improved payouts that the men now get (and deservedly so).
Why don't we let any man player ranked below 128th play in the women's tournaments???
Again, you do not know me and what/who I have respect for. To assume something about someone you have never met is just plain rude.
And yes, I am completely misinformed about how Fargo works. To tell you the truth, I don't give a fat rat's ass about Fargo or how it works. It has no bearing in anything I do in life. So there's that.
Years ago, when there was a thread about who had the best stroke in pool, I was the only poster in literally pages of posts that threw Allison Fisher's name in the hat, and not ONE single poster acknowledged my post nor agreed with me. Talk about AZB's respect for women.
I am happy to stand corrected here, but you implied that the women's Fargo rates are less representative of their quality than the men's Fargo rates, giving the argument of weaker competition. I very strongly disagree with this assessment. If you don't feel a woman rated in the 690s is the equal of a man rated in the 690s, then you haven't watched the women enough.
Nonetheless, you have seen what you have seen, and I am always interested in your opinions on matters like this based on your own observations.
If I misinterpreted you, Maniac, I apologize.
Your post indicates Pia clearly isn’t as talented as the 5 female players you mentioned, nor a bunch you didn’t mention. So then it begs the question as to why she’s being “appointed” to this tour? If MR wants to acknowledge female players by including 1 on the WNT lineup then why not the best female player? Everyone with a modicum of intelligence knows why. The real truth is that if Pia wasn’t married to Joshua Filler, no one in the pool world would even know who she is. She’d be a club player in Germany.
No, it doesn't beg that question, and yes, I did cover that in Post #28 in this thread. Pia is the highest rated woman in the WNT rankings and is about the only woman player that has shown any real loyalty to the WNT by frequently participating in their ranking events. The other elite women, including the 22 with a higher Fargo than Pia, could have played in the Matchroom ranking events in 2023, but did not.
The male players offered contracts by Matchroom were the ones who were the best as measured by their WNT rank, not the best based on their Fargo fates or by someone's subjective assessment of their talent.
Extremely few of the top pro women have ever dabbled with the men's tournaments. Karen Corr is by far the most, at least an order of magnitude above anyone else. Jasmin played in a few. Of the younger players, I too believe Pia has played the most. If Siming or Chezka asked to be on the tour, I bet Emily would have welcomed them with open arms. My gut says Pia is the only one who asked, and good for her if she did.
Will the women be competitive? No. We are about all on record saying any of the men under Fargo 800 are "dead money" in these major events. Well, all the women are well under 800. You can't have it both ways, that under 800 men are dead money, but under 800 women will be competitive.
Will they help viewership, yes, imo. Will they help grow the sport, yes, imo.
Will the women be competitive? No. We are about all on record saying any of the men under Fargo 800 are "dead money" in these major events. Well, all the women are well under 800. You can't have it both ways, that under 800 men are dead money, but under 800 women will be competitive.
Will they help viewership, yes, imo. Will they help grow the sport, yes, imo.
Well what a diplomatic answer. We’ll have to agree to disagree, not only on Pia, but on the reasons why the male players that were offered contracts were “chosen”.
Everything MR is doing is a “script” to mold a product they want to sell, not about the best pool or players. Kind of like Pro Wrestling, more about “entertainment” than sport.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
"Let them play, Let them play, Let them Play" agree with you Jay.
Echoing my previous statement to some of the absolute nonsense that has unfolded since (as usual) on such threads about difference in sex...
There is nothing separating men and women in a sport such as pool beyond generational stereotypes, fabricated perceptions and opportunities afforded.
These will be in place for many years to come... the only way to defy them is to build equity. In attitudes and opportunities to perform. Removing any and all bias.To the point where even unconscious gender bias is filtered from perception of the game. Giving the very youngest an opportunity to take up the game we love without all the preconceived nonsense that currently exists.
"I've never seen a women bala bala bala"
And you people who say such things don't want to see a woman do it... which is why you talk like that.
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Sounds like you are privy to something I'm not. If so, I will stand corrected. Just offer a few examples of male players offered a Matchroom contract not carrying a WNT ranking in the Top 128 at the end of 2023.
he made a wise decision marrying her, she keeps him in line
I like almost everything that MR has done. Except for Ballgate (Purple 5). This one feels just a little forced. Pia seems like a nice gal and will probably improve. The problem is that there are 20 ish females above her skillset. You want family...well I would suggest one of these but 690's should try out the APA before going on to MR. If she gets over 750 I will eat my words. Lets come back in a year and review.
I suspect if it was Kelly Fisher or Siming we would all say good for her. Good move.
I suspect if it was Kelly Fisher or Siming we would all say good for her. Good move.
We can have a 50 page debate on male vs female and how it relates to sports and the "why". But "today" women are nowhere near the men as a group. If there was not a separate women's division for professional pool (or about any other sport under the sun), the women would be completely forgotten. Do we watch the 100th ranked male when in a tournament? No, unless we know that male personally. We only like to watch the top 16 male pros. We might still watch a male vs female match, but that will be solely due to the battle of the sexes. Not on the playing ability of the women as a sole criteria.
If there were one division in pro pool for men and women combined, the women would not be the stars they are today. They would not have their recognition. They would have almost zero prize money. The same would be true in just about any sport.
I'm not debating "why" this is. Just stating that right now, today, this "is" the way it is.
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I'm all for the "script". If that's what it takes to grow pool, that's fine by me. Hypothetically, the top 128 are not the WNT 128. But let's say prize money grows 5x in the next 10 years. And pool rooms start popping back up. Then maybe MR expands the 128 to 256, and the top 200 really are the best 200 in the world, as every kid that picks up a cue will want to be on the WNT.
It's like year one of the IPT. There were some almost bangers in it, that somehow slipped through the cracks because they sold themselves to KT/Deno/Whomever to get in. However, if the IPT had continued and grown for 5 years, it would have been a sure thing that the top players in the world would have all been striving to get on it, displacing any that didn't belong.
