In what circumstances does the weaker player get more advantage from tighter pockets?

Poolplaya9

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
One of the things that I see a lot of disagreement on in the pool world, even among extremely strong and knowledgeable players, is whether tighter or looser pockets favor the stronger or weaker player, and under what circumstances they feel it favors each if they feel it varies.

For some people their opinion varies depending on factors such as the game being played, the relative speeds of each player, exactly how loose or how tight of pockets you are talking about, the spot that is being given, the specific strengths and weaknesses of each player, and other factors. In your opinion, under exactly which circumstances and situations do you feel that tighter or looser pockets most benefits the stronger or weaker player, and why?
 
F

FuManchu

Not a Pro Player
Silver Member
Tighter pockets will certainly always be an advantage to the stronger player. They will shoot better and have less issues with tighter pockets than the weaker players. Watch a weaker player and count how many balls they wobble in a pocket vs a strong player.
 
Poolplaya9

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
FuManchu said:
Tighter pockets will certainly always be an advantage to the stronger player. They will shoot better and have less issues with tighter pockets than the weaker players. Watch a weaker player and count how many balls they wobble in a pocket vs a strong player.
Click to expand...

You really don't think there are ever any circumstances where the weaker player may benefit from tighter pockets more than the stronger player does? As one example to consider, let's say you were getting 12 to 3 in one pocket from a top player where that is the correct spot. Do you think you have a better chance of winning that game with tight or loose pockets? And if it depends on something else as well, what do you feel it would depend on?

Any other scenarios where you think the weaker player gains more from the tight pockets than the stronger player? Interested in some other opinions and discussion as well.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Nine or ten ball
I'd rather give a ball spot on a loose table.
I'd rather give games on the wire on a tight table.
 
P

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Poolplaya9 said:
One of the things that I see a lot of disagreement on in the pool world, even among extremely strong and knowledgeable players, is whether tighter or looser pockets favor the stronger or weaker player, and under what circumstances they feel it favors each if they feel it varies.

For some people their opinion varies depending on factors such as the game being played, the relative speeds of each player, exactly how loose or how tight of pockets you are talking about, the spot that is being given, the specific strengths and weaknesses of each player, and other factors. In your opinion, under exactly which circumstances and situations do you feel that tighter or looser pockets most benefits the stronger or weaker player, and why?
Click to expand...

This is entirely second hand, but... I asked pretty much the same question to 2 very
strong shortstops I know quite well, Both replied the same.

1. If you are playing even against a player you are sure is of lesser speed than you,
you want tight pockets.

2. If spotting a weaker player - you want looser pockets.

Both these guys have decades of experience, good judgement, and considerable success in money matches.

Dale
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Poolplaya9 said:
... In your opinion, under exactly which circumstances and situations do you feel that tighter or looser pockets most benefits the stronger or weaker player, and why?
Click to expand...
I know one player (about APA 6 level) who pockets very accurately, largely because he rarely, if ever, plays position. Intermediate position plays, like rolling the cue ball around the table on three cushions when the OB is sitting just right, are not in his universe. Side spin is pretty much not there, either. I don't think tight pockets are going to bother him as much.
 
F

FuManchu

Not a Pro Player
Silver Member
Poolplaya9 said:
You really don't think there are ever any circumstances where the weaker player may benefit from tighter pockets more than the stronger player does? As one example to consider, let's say you were getting 12 to 3 in one pocket from a top player where that is the correct spot. Do you think you have a better chance of winning that game with tight or loose pockets? And if it depends on something else as well, what do you feel it would depend on?

Any other scenarios where you think the weaker player gains more from the tight pockets than the stronger player? Interested in some other opinions and discussion as well.
Click to expand...

I really dont think that even then it will matter. I was at pool sharks back in 2008-2009 and watched scott and dippy playing in the pit for BIG money. Scott was giving him ridiculous weight on a fairly tight table. I think it was 11-3 at one point and may have gotten crazier. Scott had no problems beating the weaker player.
 
M

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
as with every thing it depends.

suppose you are spotting someone the 8 ball. you would want tight pockets because he wouldnt get there first as often.

but if spotting the 5 ball then you would want loose pockets as you would be running out more and tight pockets would give him two chances at being near the money ball more often.
 
D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i used to think i knew the answer
but looking back,i didn't do too good

Cliff beat me with 4hit and the pick on tight equipment

Jersey red gave me 3 pockets to his one on tight equipment
I loss

Richie rich gave me 2 hit and the pick on tight equipment and it cost me

black Sam gave me 8 to 6 and the break on average pockets and robbed me

Old Blind eddie taylor gave me 8 to 4 on buckets and I came in second

St Louie louie gave me a handspan at 9 ball on normal equipment,it was a heart break
we played one pocket 8 to 4 because he was not a one pocket player

it didnt keep him from running out

I could go on
I used to think ,I was able to match up

but matching up is difficult with really good players

It is so sad to think you have the nuts,
when all the time it wasn't you who had the nuts

it is so hard to wake up and realize that you are a sucker

Dean
 
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iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the opposite of most.

The easier the table (smaller size, bigger pockets, faster cloth, etc,), the MORE it favors the stronger plater.

Everyone plays better on easier equipment regardless of their speed. But a stronger player will have a bigger jump on easier equipment than a weaker player will.
 
jtompilot

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In one pocket playing Efren with the same spot regardless of pocket size, I want 4 1/8 or 4 1/4 corners. With big 5" buckets I have no chance, hell I might never shoot. He's plenty human on those thighs pockets. He might hit a ball or several a little firm, catch the points and send it my way. I at least have a small chance. This comes from my quality time with Efren:D and a few other killers
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Poolplaya9 said:
One of the things that I see a lot of disagreement on in the pool world, even among extremely strong and knowledgeable players, is whether tighter or looser pockets favor the stronger or weaker player, and under what circumstances they feel it favors each if they feel it varies.

For some people their opinion varies depending on factors such as the game being played, the relative speeds of each player, exactly how loose or how tight of pockets you are talking about, the spot that is being given, the specific strengths and weaknesses of each player, and other factors. In your opinion, under exactly which circumstances and situations do you feel that tighter or looser pockets most benefits the stronger or weaker player, and why?
Click to expand...

Pocket size and giving weight to an opponent are 2 different things entirely. The better player in an even match up is always going to come out on top. When giving weight, even with tight pockets, if the better player loses, you have to ask yourself, was it because of the tight pockets, or was it because of the spot to the weaker player. Anytime to much weight is given to the weaker player reguardless of the size of the pockets, the better player is at risk of losing.
 
BC21

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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Silver Member
pdcue said:
This is entirely second hand, but... I asked pretty much the same question to 2 very
strong shortstops I know quite well, Both replied the same.

1. If you are playing even against a player you are sure is of lesser speed than you,
you want tight pockets.

2. If spotting a weaker player - you want looser pockets.

Both these guys have decades of experience, good judgement, and considerable success in money matches.

Dale
Click to expand...

That's how I like it. Usually the weak players don't lose due to missing basic shots. They lose because of poor position play, hooking themselves a lot, and going for sucker shots, low-percentage shots, despite pocket size.

A weaker player feels more confident on big-pocketed tables, which means they get ballsy and think they have a better chance of winning. But it's a false confidence. When you're struggling to play good position, and going for sell-out shots, you're going to lose, even if the pockets are the size of coffee cans. Stronger players never (or rarely) miss on the big-pocket tables. So it really becomes a runout clinic everytime the weaker player messes up.

If a guy plays good position, but I feel like his consistency and accuracy is a little weaker than my own, I'd prefer to play on a tighter table. If he hangs one ball per hour more than I do, then I have an advantage.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I'm a bit of a pessimist on this subject. I think making pockets tighter than normal is bad for pool as a whole. So what if a 5" table allows guys to run huge packs? It's exciting and draws a lot of attention. More importantly, it allows new and/or lower skill players to enjoy the game, which directly relates to growth. Want to turn somebody off to pool? Make it so hard to play that they hate it & never want to try again. So many people complain that the game is dying, no new blood coming in. Then in another thread they brag about how tight their table is shimmed. Every player who thinks they are good wants conditions that best suit him/her, rather than accept a universal standard.

I'm in the bucket camp. Tight pockets hurts everybody because it kills pool to anybody who isn't a die hard pool player. And let's face it, the money comes from those folks, not the pool players themselves. Chase them away = pool dies.
 
matcase

matcase

Blondie's #1 fan
Silver Member
I can think of one way weaker players would benefit...they would pocket the cueball less often
 
BC21

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
qbilder said:
I'm a bit of a pessimist on this subject. I think making pockets tighter than normal is bad for pool as a whole. So what if a 5" table allows guys to run huge packs? It's exciting and draws a lot of attention. More importantly, it allows new and/or lower skill players to enjoy the game, which directly relates to growth. Want to turn somebody off to pool? Make it so hard to play that they hate it & never want to try again. So many people complain that the game is dying, no new blood coming in. Then in another thread they brag about how tight their table is shimmed. Every player who thinks they are good wants conditions that best suit him/her, rather than accept a universal standard.

I'm in the bucket camp. Tight pockets hurts everybody because it kills pool to anybody who isn't a die hard pool player. And let's face it, the money comes from those folks, not the pool players themselves. Chase them away = pool dies.
Click to expand...

Great point. More people would visit pool halls for the casual entertainment, like bowling. But if it's too hard these people won't come back. I like pool halls with a bunch a big pocket tables to draw people into the beauty and fun of the game. I also like a few tough tables for more advanced action. This mix provides a hierarchy for players that want to excel beyond casual play.
 
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