10-ball vs. 9-ball

Blackball75

Blackball75
Silver Member
I understand ten-ball is growing in popularity, especially among some professionals.

As far as I can see it is harder than 9-ball because:

- the greater number of balls to sink to win
- harder to pocket balls off the break (as in 8-ball)
- a 10-ball pocketed off the break does not win the game
- shots have to be called

Perhaps because it is harder, I have never seen it played at a bar or a pool hall. And so far, never on TV. I'm guessing only the pros will be really good at this game?

I also wonder if it will appeal to the TV companies that broadcast 9-ball. The disadvantages in this context that I can see are:

- games are generally a little longer
- there are two striped balls, but only one is a money-ball (in 9-ball it is obvious the 9 is a special ball), which may confuse spectators not familiar with the game
- no making the money-ball off the break = less drama and less chance
- less chance of making a ball on the break = more innings?
- accidental sinking of balls does not count (less drama)
- called shots make it seem more elite and less accessible to amateurs?

Does anyone think there will come a day when 10-ball is more popular than 9-ball among:

1) Professionals
2) Amateurs/casual players

Also, does anyone know if a "slop" version of ten-ball is played, i.e. having the same rules as nine-ball, the only difference being the extra ball?

Finally, anyone here play ten-ball? :)
 
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I play. Love 10-ball, hate 9-ball. For the time being, it appears it will take an act of God to make 10 more popular than 9. (Everyone apparently loves that frickin soft break) I do hope for a day when both the majority of pros and amateurs embrace 10-ball as the rotation game of choice.
 
Hi=)
I think 10ball is more fair, but 9ball is more friendly for the public. I hate to lose a match when the opponent have fluked ball for the win.


I am wondering how it would have been whit 10ball rules in 9ball?
 
We all need to move to 10-ball, it's 2010 Ball for christ sakes. :cool:

Many people in my area play 10-ball, the Desert Classic Tour uses 10-ball as it's finale tournament. We play with the Slop rules like 9-ball, except the 10-ball break in the bottom 2 corners spots up.

The fact that the break is 100 times harder is the main difference. In 9-ball, a good racker/rack reader could make 1-3 balls on every single break. Then they are just playing the 6 ball ghost, which I find much more boring.

The best breaks in 10-ball are to smash the crap out of the racks and control whitey at the same time. I would think this would be much more appealing to the lessor player.

With less balls going on the break, you have more clusters, more "Moving" needs to be done with perfect precision.
 
i have switched to playing 10 ball and rarly even and dont want to play 9 ball anymore, i switched a tourny that a friend of mine runs from 9 to 10 ball, at first he was nt sure if people would like it, but in the end everyone loved it and liked it much more than 9 ball. i dont see much 9 ball being played around here anymore. 10 ball is a much better game IMO.
 
Unfortunately, even when 10 Ball surpasses 9 Ball as the THE tournament / TV game, I wonder of it will be Texas Express 10 Ball and not actual 10 Ball. It appears that promoters are satisfied with just overcoming the break issues associated with 9 Ball.
 
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US TV is not interested in pool. If they were it would be on like poker. So lets not let TV dictate and change our rules again. When TV shows tours and the pros the money a change might be OK. Johnnyt
 
... Also, does anyone know if a "slop" version of ten-ball is played, i.e. having the same rules as nine-ball, the only difference being the extra ball?

Yes, the Dominiak Tour in New England is using Texas Express 9-ball rules for 10-ball.
 
Ten ball, because of the one extra ball, is a little more skilfull, but that's got nothibng to do with why the change has taken place.

The gradual change to ten ball is entirely due to pro players who feel that players were controlling matches with their break in nine ball to the point that it wasn't fair. Oddly enough, the switch to alternate break did little to appease the pro players. Those who'd spent years working on their nine ball breaks, which most admit is, over time, very much a matter of skill, could no longer reap the fruits of years of hard work.

All these wonderful rules changes, LOL, have spelled the end, or at least the considerable reduction, of things like the stringing of racks by the elite players and the golden break. As someone who has attended hundreds of live events over the last thirty years, I can attest to the fact that these are the things that get the fans more excited than anything else.

So, our sport can either cater to those it tries to market the game to, or to the players. It has chosen to cater to the players, leaving us fans with a game that, though possibly fairer, is less interesting to watch.

Thankfully, the four most credible events played in America in 2009 were the Mosconi Cup, the Derby City Classic, the US Open, and the WPBA Nationals,
were all 9-ball events, so we fans still have something to hold onto.

Still, the trend is disturbing.
 
10-ball less interesting?!?!?! WHAT?!?!?! It takes more skill to play 10-ball than 9-ball and IMHO the skill is what is interesting to watch. Breaking the same f***ing pattern 10 times in a row is boring as hell.

And of course pool has to cater to the players, if it doesn't then there isn't anyone to be a fan of.
 
10-ball less interesting?!?!?! WHAT?!?!?! It takes more skill to play 10-ball than 9-ball and IMHO the skill is what is interesting to watch. Breaking the same f***ing pattern 10 times in a row is boring as hell.

And of course pool has to cater to the players, if it doesn't then there isn't anyone to be a fan of.

JUST MAKE THAT 9 BALL SOLID YELLOW...BEEN PLAYING 9 BALL FOR YEARS..I THINK 10 B IS THE WAY TO GO!!!:thumbup:
 
JUST MAKE THAT 9 BALL SOLID YELLOW...BEEN PLAYING 9 BALL FOR YEARS..I THINK 10 B IS THE WAY TO GO!!!:thumbup:

It's just that having two balls of the exact same color won't help make things less confusing for the fans (live and TV). Might even confuse a player every now and then.

It really is no problem telling the difference between the 9 & 10 balls.
 
I'm not sure 10 will be more popular with the public, maybe pool players.

Because of the break, I think there is a lot more "moving" in the beginning to struggle for control. "Moving" and the American public generally do not get along very well.

BTW, nice Capablanca tar.
 
Yes I play 10 ball,an rotation as well..an there are several pro's that can run several racks of 10 ball as well..
 
Ten ball, because of the one extra ball, is a little more skilfull, but that's got nothibng to do with why the change has taken place.

The gradual change to ten ball is entirely due to pro players who feel that players were controlling matches with their break in nine ball to the point that it wasn't fair. Oddly enough, the switch to alternate break did little to appease the pro players. Those who'd spent years working on their nine ball breaks, which most admit is, over time, very much a matter of skill, could no longer reap the fruits of years of hard work.

All these wonderful rules changes, LOL, have spelled the end, or at least the considerable reduction, of things like the stringing of racks by the elite players and the golden break. As someone who has attended hundreds of live events over the last thirty years, I can attest to the fact that these are the things that get the fans more excited than anything else.

So, our sport can either cater to those it tries to market the game to, or to the players. It has chosen to cater to the players, leaving us fans with a game that, though possibly fairer, is less interesting to watch.

Thankfully, the four most credible events played in America in 2009 were the Mosconi Cup, the Derby City Classic, the US Open, and the WPBA Nationals,
were all 9-ball events, so we fans still have something to hold onto.

Still, the trend is disturbing.

SJM hits the nail right on the head. Players preference and viewers choice are two completely different things. If those better players want to play something a bit more 'skilful' then why not jump from 10 balls to 21 balls and play snooker.
 
True pool is not popular on tv YET. Make the game really exciting which would be very doable and everyone of us could make more money.

10 ball is not the way to go for tv.
 
I understand ten-ball is growing in popularity, especially among some professionals.

As far as I can see it is harder than 9-ball because:

- the greater number of balls to sink to win
- harder to pocket balls off the break (as in 8-ball)
- a 10-ball pocketed off the break does not win the game
- shots have to be called

Blackball75:

The following is also in the WPA 10-ball rules:

- a called safety that results in pocketing a ball, gives the option to the incoming player as to whether he/she will accept the table as-is, or force the previous player to shoot again.

As a player on the Tony Robles' Predator Open/Pro 10-ball tour, I can also attest to a rule in addition to the above WPA 10-ball rules, one added by Tony Robles:

- a called shot that is missed, gives the option to the incoming player as to whether he/she will accept the table as-is, or give the table back to the previous player to shoot again. (This is to minimize "lucky leaves" or "moral safeties.")

Perhaps because it is harder, I have never seen it played at a bar or a pool hall. And so far, never on TV. I'm guessing only the pros will be really good at this game?

I think that it will be a long time coming before you'll see 10-ball being played in a bar. You're more apt to see 9-ball being played, and even then, much rarer than the "accepted standard" of 8-ball, because the general impression is that folks want to "get their coin drop money's worth" by having all 15 balls on the table.

I also wonder if it will appeal to the TV companies that broadcast 9-ball. The disadvantages in this context that I can see are:

- games are generally a little longer
- there are two striped balls, but only one is a money-ball (in 9-ball it is obvious the 9 is a special ball), which may confuse spectators not familiar with the game
- no making the money-ball off the break = less drama and less chance
- less chance of making a ball on the break = more innings?
- accidental sinking of balls does not count (less drama)
- called shots make it seem more elite and less accessible to amateurs?

While the Texas Express advocates will tell you all these things, I can tell you as a player on the Tony Robles' Predator 10-ball tour, that this was not the case. The 10-ball matches, not the 9-ball matches, were the tables that had crowds around them, watching intently and participating with hoots and hollers.

Personally, I get the feeling that there's a perception that folks have had enough with slop 9-ball, and are looking for purer pool again. (At least from, yes, the player perspective.) Folks are getting tired of the "cookie cutter" 9-ball break and near-Cosmo-style runouts.

And, I've noticed that when I'm over other folks [non-pool players] houses for get-togethers and what-not, whenever a 9-ball match is on TV (e.g. ESPN) I would obviously get asked questions about the match in progress. When they innocently ask "how does the referee know what pocket the player is intending to pocket the ball in?" and I go on to explain that 9-ball isn't a call-pocket game; the player can miss his/her intended pocket while the ball goes around the table, slops into another pocket, and it still counts as a ball scored, I'm pleasantly surprised when -- and these are non-pool players remember -- wince with furrowed eyebrows and say "you're kidding? really? I thought at the level they [the pros] play at, that they have to call the pocket?" Obviously, these folks don't know 9-ball and Texas Express rules, but it's interesting hearing this observation from outside the pool-playing crowd I hang around with.

Does anyone think there will come a day when 10-ball is more popular than 9-ball among:

1) Professionals
2) Amateurs/casual players

Also, does anyone know if a "slop" version of ten-ball is played, i.e. having the same rules as nine-ball, the only difference being the extra ball?

Finally, anyone here play ten-ball? :)

Last question first, yes, I play 10-ball according to WPA rules. :) And it's my preferred rotation game, if I can't get a game of straight pool, one pocket, or even 8-ball.

As for what I see for the future of 10-ball, I see its ramp-up as slow. Some of the 10-ball purists predicted that 10-ball would've overrun and replaced 9-ball by now, but I think that was an over-zealous and overly optimistic prediction. I think 10-ball's acceptance is a slow burner -- I think you'll see the pro tournaments embracing 10-ball in favor of 9-ball more and more as time goes by, and TV will slowly catch up. I think the last holdouts will be events like ESPN's Challenge of Champions, and perhaps the Mosconi Cup, but I do see other tours switching to 10-ball. The switch may be a gradual one -- perhaps even having both a 9-ball and 10-ball event run concurrently. But I do think the future rotation game is 10-ball. It will just take time, 's all.

As for 10-ball with Texas Express rules... <sigh> that's an example of the "you'll pry my Texas Express rules from my cold, dead fingers" 9-ball crowd, IMHO. A 9-ball player that recently "switched" to 10-ball believes the following:

* that Texas Express rules are "normal" in 10-ball, "because it's a rotation game" (for them, Texas Express rules seem to be bolted to the hip of *any* rotation game);

* they make a big deal about "how much difference that extra ball makes in the 'difficulty' of the game." Oh my gosh, that one extra ball is "h-u-g-e!" to them!

Established 10-ball players -- and even Shane himself will tell you this -- that it's the shape of the rack, not the extra ball, that makes the difference. There are no "wired" breaks in 10-ball like exists in 9-ball. You ain't going to see that wing ball predictably flying into the corner pocket, and the 1-ball predictably heading towards (or pocketing) in the side pocket. Soft-break a 10-ball rack at your own peril!

-Sean
 
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What's best for the pros is not always what's best for the popularity of pool and the general public. Adding difficulty usually adds to the length of matches. Bangers and TV can't tolerate long matches.

10 is tougher than 9 (for that matter so is 14.1 and rotation) but the only guys who want a tougher game are the pros. Everyday players find pool challenging enough. If you're at a level where you only get out twice a night in 9b, 10b could leave you feeling sick at the end of the night (just like a tight diamond sometimes does).

10 might somehow become the pro game of choice because it's still fast enough to work on TV. I don't think it'll ever pass 9b for casual players. Casual players don't feel robbed when their opponent makes a ball on the break; it's not like their C-level opponent is gonna keep them glued to the chair for 30 minutes.

---

While we're on this subject... I used to go with the usual mentality that the 10b break is skilled and the 9b break is scrubby due to the easy wing balls. But having tried for a long time to make the supposedly 'easy', 'guaranteed' wing ball, (I want add like 10 more scare quotes)... I don't find it's all that easy and I'm not exactly putting up 6 packs even if it goes.

There's a contradiction here to me.

Pros like Earl gripe about corner balls flying in and say it takes the skill out of the game. They prefer something like the 10b rack or at least a moved 9b rack. Then it becomes about who can hit harder without losing whitey.

But doesn't this seem like a luckier, less skilled way of playing? Isn't it more skillful to read and control the rack and actually call a ball on the break and try to position the one ball?

Hitting 'em hard and hoping (rather than playing a specific shot) seems like the opposite of skilled play, even though I admit it takes a lot of control to squat the cue ball after.

PS: to answer your question, yeah, I play it. Or I did. I realized that even though I am the top fish in my local room, I cannot run racks of 10b. In fact, I can't do more than a 2 pack of 9 on a good night. So my buddy and I play 6-ball ghost. True story. Why fight reality?
 
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