16 Pro Player Invite Only Tour

When it comes down to finding 16 or more top American players, I only find about 6-8 that fit that bill. There are a few from the UK, Germany, and the PI that are here for long periods of time, but you never know when they will go back home. I think you said single elm long races, if so a mix of top tier and 2nd tier won't work as the 2nd tier won't have much of a chance to cash. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
When it comes down to finding 16 or more top American players, I only find about 6-8 that fit that bill. There are a few from the UK, Germany, and the PI that are here for long periods of time, but you never know when they will go back home. I think you said single elm long races, if so a mix of top tier and 2nd tier won't work as the 2nd tier won't have much of a chance to cash. Johnnyt
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It doesnt matter.

Its all just noise anyway.

Even if someone did put it together there is no way it could survive the shear negative energy of the people in and around the game. Between the long history of bullshit promoters and never ending short sightedness of the players to the almost religious belief of the target fan that everything should be free.....all this talk of what would or wouldnt work is simply a mouse fart in a windstorm.

The end of the day its simple. In the US not enough people want to watch pool. The ones that do are (demographic generalization to follow) old, dont spend much money and there are not enough of them to interest any advertisers even within the industry.

So you get what we have now. I expect thats all that will ever be unless someone with both resources and brains comes into the game. So far its been either or and never both.
 
In this fantasy land :) ....

I'd go with 6 stops per year of the 16 player fields. I think 12 is too much.

Then, when it took off, and other promoters started paying attention, I'd add one other big event and have it as-is, unlimited fields. This would be the US Open 9 ball.

So what that gets you, is 6 tight events of only top pros, and 1 more of the existing events. Seed the 16 guys in the existing event, and everyone and anyone else can play in this events just for the entry fee. Its would break up the 6 other events with a "special" event that is open to the public, to see if any of the public can take down the 16 pros.
 
Who does the invites, who runs the tour and what is his/her connection to the players involved?
 
Pool could be put on the map with a reality show similar to "The Contenders" was for boxing.

It would need an already-existing celebrity to get off the ground, however. For "The Contenders," it was Sylvester Stallone and Sugar Ray Leonard.

Joe Rogan, of course, would be *the* perfect person to host a reality pool show with 16 players because he actually does understand and know the game well.
 
There are two glaring problems with this...

The first is the idea of invitational... There's too much favoritism in this sport to have an invitational tour.

A skill qualifier like Glen is talking about makes the most sense, then you're sure you have the best qualified playing as opposed to the promoter's best friends playing. Then you have a means of knowing where you stand and what you would have to do to get where you need to be as well.

Skill at play is not skill at competition, but at least people would have the means to get the experience at competition that they might otherwise not be able to get the chance to do.

The other problem is prohibitive entry fees. Top players have trouble coming up with 250-500, but they're going to be able to come up with 12 $1000 entries???

I just don't think that's feasible.

If the idea is to get the best players in, unfortunately, it's going to take someone who's willing to lose some money before they can make some money, and they have to be extremely intelligent from a marketing perspective to have any chance.

Anything is marketable with the right marketing and enough time and money.

You don't provide what people want, you convince them that what they want is what you're providing. That's what good marketing is all about.

Golf is one of the most boring sports to watch, but it's watched by millions of people week in, week out.

It's a combination of marketing and gradual build up and general attitude that led to golf's success. Business meetings for high level CEOs etc... were what golf was shown as being.

Pool has been shown as low life's taking advantage of gullible people. That has to change first.

When pool was at it's most popular, it was looked at much the same as golf is today, a respectable gentleman's game.

If it has any hope that will have to be what it gets back to primarily.

Jaden
 
Jaden said:
The first is the idea of invitational... There's too much favoritism in this sport to have an invitational tour.

A skill qualifier like Glen is talking about makes the most sense, then you're sure you have the best qualified playing as opposed to the promoter's best friends playing. Then you have a means of knowing where you stand and what you would have to do to get where you need to be as well.

Skill at play is not skill at competition, but at least people would have the means to get the experience at competition that they might otherwise not be able to get the chance to do.

The other problem is prohibitive entry fees. Top players have trouble coming up with 250-500, but they're going to be able to come up with 12 $1000 entries???

I just don't think that's feasible.

If the idea is to get the best players in, unfortunately, it's going to take someone who's willing to lose some money before they can make some money, and they have to be extremely intelligent from a marketing perspective to have any chance.

Anything is marketable with the right marketing and enough time and money.

You don't provide what people want, you convince them that what they want is what you're providing. That's what good marketing is all about.

Golf is one of the most boring sports to watch, but it's watched by millions of people week in, week out.

It's a combination of marketing and gradual build up and general attitude that led to golf's success. Business meetings for high level CEOs etc... were what golf was shown as being.

Pool has been shown as low life's taking advantage of gullible people. That has to change first.

When pool was at it's most popular, it was looked at much the same as golf is today, a respectable gentleman's game.

If it has any hope that will have to be what it gets back to primarily.

Jaden
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I've seen savers happen between high profile pro players in the finals of a tournament. If that happened in golf those players would be banned for life.
 
That's it. I'm tired of trying to save the pros. I'm going to start on a format that will bring Bumper Pool back. Johnnyt
 
alstl said:
I've seen savers happen between high profile pro players in the finals of a tournament. If that happened in golf those players would be banned for life.
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I have been told by a Pro golfer that savers and deals occur on tour. I also remember Pro Golfers cutting up the skins game during the silly season each year. They took some heat for it but it still happened.
 
Fox and Hound raised over 80 Million for their publicly traded offering

JCIN said:
Pool is not a viable entertainment media for the public in this country.

Never has been. Never will be.

The fact that it was on ESPN twenty years ago means nothing. The powers that be at that time had a chance and they screwed up it as bad as possible.

What is possible is something small that can be built on the people who already play the game.

My guess is that will never happen either because history has shown that players much prefer to be lied to and promised pie in the sky money than be told the truth and work to build to something.
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Pool has certainly been a top entertainment option for people, my UpScale Billiard Concept was #1 in the state of Texas in sales for 2 solid years (doing over 6 Million per year). CJ's Billiard Palace hosted TV Events that were broadcast 18 times with players like Earl Strickland, Efren Reyes, Johnny Archer, Paul Potier, Andam, Luat, Kim Davenport, Jimmy Rempe, etc.

There were publically traded billiard concepts like Fox and Hound, Jillians, and Cool River popping up all over the country as well. Fox and Hound raised over 80 Million for their publicly traded offering, that's pretty good example of public recognition.

Cool River here in Texas has a Billiard Theme and was started by people that personally like and play the game. The first two years in operation this concept did over 12 Million in total food/liquor/gaming sales and is still in operation here in Las Colinas.

Our team's total historic sales is over 53 Million Dollars and we're aggressively looking at locations in Ft. Worth's most affluent area.....as a matter of fact we were there today.

Pocket Billiards has been under promoted the past few years, however, that time is fixing to change. I was running 4 commercials for my pool room a night for many years on ESPN and will pick that up right away prior to our Grand Opening.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Pool has certainly been a top entertainment option for people, my UpScale Billiard Concept was #1 in the state of Texas in sales for 2 solid years (doing over 6 Million per year). CJ's Billiard Palace hosted TV Events that were broadcast 18 times with players like Earl Strickland, Efren Reyes, Johnny Archer, Paul Potier, Andam, Luat, Kim Davenport, Jimmy Rempe, etc.

There were publically traded billiard concepts like Fox and Hound, Jillians, and Cool River popping up all over the country as well. Fox and Hound raised over 80 Million for their publicly traded offering, that's pretty good example of public recognition.

Cool River here in Texas has a Billiard Theme and was started by people that personally like and play the game. The first two years in operation this concept did over 12 Million in total food/liquor/gaming sales and is still in operation here in Las Colinas.

Our team's total historic sales is over 53 Million Dollars and we're aggressively looking at locations in Ft. Worth's most affluent area.....as a matter of fact we were there today.

Pocket Billiards has been under promoted the past few years, however, that time is fixing to change. I was running 4 commercials for my pool room a night for many years on ESPN and will pick that up right away prior to our Grand Opening.
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CJ I was around during the time frame you are mentioning and nothing you are saying is wrong but that was the height of the modern pool boom. It was riding the wave of a great movie that swept the nation.
There were tours all over and the McDermott tour was doing very well.
Waiting list at pool rooms and all night action or simple play play was going on.

I don't see that now and its not a viable entertainment product at the moment. Something needs to give it a push and someone needs to get the players out of the way of its success.

Hopefully some of the games top minds and forward thinkers(dreamers) will be able to come up with something. I think you are included in the group.
 
We should, as an industry at least be advertising on ESPN or Fox Sports

frankncali said:
CJ I was around during the time frame you are mentioning and nothing you are saying is wrong but that was the height of the modern pool boom. It was riding the wave of a great movie that swept the nation.
There were tours all over and the McDermott tour was doing very well.
Waiting list at pool rooms and all night action or simple play play was going on.

I don't see that now and its not a viable entertainment product at the moment. Something needs to give it a push and someone needs to get the players out of the way of its success.

Hopefully some of the games top minds and forward thinkers(dreamers) will be able to come up with something. I think you are included in the group.
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:Yes, it's obvious that no one in the pool room business is advertising on ESPN....and whether someone wants to acknowledge it or not "If you're not a sport or game on ESPN consistently you're not in the public's mind as a sport or game!" We advertise on ESPN EVERY night for many years and did 4 commercials to make sure the public was aware of our business.

We should, as an industry at least be advertising on ESPN or Fox Sports to remind the public that pool's an option for the entertainment dollar. Discontinuing advertising to save money is like unplugging a clock to save time.....advertising is as essential as electricity to keep a business or in the case a sport/game thriving.

Look in the newspapers, magazines, TV, Billboards, etc. and tell me how much Pocket Billiard advertising you see IN ANY CITY IN THE UNITED STATES.....how much more obvious can "dropping the advertising ball" be??? 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
:Yes, it's obvious that no one in the pool room business is advertising on ESPN....and whether someone wants to acknowledge it or not "If you're not a sport or game on ESPN consistently you're not in the public's mind as a sport or game!" We advertise on ESPN EVERY night for many years and did 4 commercials to make sure the public was aware of our business.

We should, as an industry at least be advertising on ESPN or Fox Sports to remind the public that pool's an option for the entertainment dollar. Discontinuing advertising to save money is like unplugging a clock to save time.....advertising is as essential as electricity to keep a business or in the case a sport/game thriving.

Look in the newspapers, magazines, TV, Billboards, etc. and tell me how much Pocket Billiard advertising you see IN ANY CITY IN THE UNITED STATES.....how much more obvious can "dropping the advertising ball" be??? 'The Game is the Teacher'
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I've also wondered if any streaming companies have contacted ESPN about airing tournaments on ESPN3. If accu-stats was streaming a 5 day tournament, and charging $15 a day/person. They could offer to stream it on ESPN3, and ESPN could receive a cut. There's plenty of people that watch streaming sports on ESPN3 that would otherwise not know about the tournament.
 
The pool industry couldn't afford any advertisement of any form on ESPN.

If a TAR match between Efren and SVB or even the free matches can only garner up 1-2K viewers at the absolute best, I seriously do not think pool stands a shot at national TV.

Reality is people just arent interested in pool anymore.
 
I could see it working out. But I think you need to keep the games something the public is familiar with. I think Mike Janis has a pretty good format. He makes the winner of the lag decide if he wants to break first or pick the starting game. Once that is decided you start out playing 8-ball or 9-ball. Then after so many games they switch to the other game for the rest of the match.

I would modify it to a race to 5 in the first game and finish to 9 with the second choice. I think he plays like 8 games of 9 ball first if you picked 9 ball and 6 if you choose 8 ball. So you could be on the hill before the switch, if you chose 9 ball and won every game. I have only played one of those tournaments and thought it was a good format. I think switching at 5 would give close to equal time to both games. Or in a race to 11 switch at 6.

But what would you call it? It is not an all around as it does not include one pocket or straight pool.

With the right name and promotion I think it would be a good format to take to the TV audience. I also like the local qualifiers to bump it to 32 players. Or local qualifiers to bump it to 64 with 32 touring pros. Then only film and broadcast the final 16 players. If they seed the pros every local would play a pro off the bat. Make it single elimination like tennis.
 
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