A little information from a pro

[paksat]

From the original post.



You sure as heck implied it. Try to make more sense the next time you post if you were not trying to imply that people can reach pro level by putting in small amounts of practice. Because if you aim the above at "those aspiring to be pro or a great player" you will get called on it, and for good reason.

This forum will protect it's readers from bad advice, so get used to the "yeah but" replies if you post stuff like that to others who might be unaware.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to spell something like that out.. because it's quite obvious and one of those things that just doesn't need mentioning.

The common idea is pros play all day, every day, all year.. Just not true. Some may, but the majority, not so much.

What you fail to mention is that almost every single top player in this game DID go through a stage of their life when they were playing a tremendous amount of pool each day to GET to that level of play that we see. Once you get there you don't need to put in 10 hours a day to stay at that level, but to get to that level in the first place you need to put ALOT of time into the game.

Agreed, i'll spell it out for the people with "not so common sense" next time.

 

[Celtic]

Agreed, i'll spell it out for the people with "not so common sense" next time.

Good idea, the reality is that "common" sense is not actually that "common" these days.

 

[ugotactionTX]

Unfortunately for us, MOST of the "Pros" that have frequented this forum have one by one been ran off by the knuckle heads. However there are a few that have manged to fade the B.S. and stuck around even though they may not contribute much on a regular basis. Personally I'd love to see more involvement by those guys as they have SO MUCH to offer....

Great thread that caught my eye. I wish that all if not most pros that exsit in this forum would contribute to this thread. Finding out there staying sharp routine would be great information, or what help them the most in becoming the player they are today.

 

[paksat]

Good idea, the reality is that "common" sense is not actually that "common" these days.

Just to be clear here:

This thread is certainly not to imply that hard work isn't needed to achieve that level of play. It is simply to share a rather interesting thing that was overheard that may dispel some prior myths.

From a personal experience, my game has improved drastically now that I have quit playing as much and instead have used a much shorter, but structured routine through out the week.

 

[zy112]

Man I wish I would have got to see that match. Appreciate the info. I agree and would guess that most pros dont spend that much time practicing, with probably exceptions when big tourneys are coming up or they are in a slump.

It is a different topic altogether how they got to be a pro. I think that is also a no brainer they spent many hours a day practicing. I will say for me, I get to that point in practice were I know my brain is tired, but keep pushing it bc I know that will happen in long tournys and I need to be prepared for it and have experience handling that "wall".

 

[Bobby]

I believe if John Schmidt were to practice more he'd be more consistent. Wasn't it Nick Varner who in the late 80's decided to up his practice time considerably (this was after he was already an established world champion) and then he goes and has that dominating year and half where he hardly ever lost a tournament...it can't be a coincidence.

Perhaps the greatest cueist of all time, Walter Lindrum was known for his incredible penchant for practice all throughout his career. He would practice anywhere from 8 to 10 hours a day and sometimes even 15 hours a day. And he was invincible, he could and would give big spots to all the other top pros. When asked if anyone would ever approach his skill he said "No, for the simple reason that I really don't think anyone will put in the time and practice that I have"

 

[girlwon1]

Mass practice leads to being tired. Tire mentally and your concentration suffers. Then you allow bad habits to develop such as banging at balls, not caring about the shot, etc. I think that when you really want to improve you practice for 20 minutes at a time. That is about all your mind and body can take of intense, real effort. After that you are not as serious about what you are trying to learn. You need to take a break for ten minutes so that you do not slip into sloppy play.

Multiple sessions are useful but not if they lead to bad practices. Over time the individual can, and should, learn to extend the sessions and to have multiple sessions emphasizing different aspects. The idea is to monitor one’s self and not lose that mental edge. Research studies (I am too lazy to go and look them up right now) lead to the conclusion that you can get up to 30% improvement by playing the game in your imagination. Visualizing your play away from the table should also be part of one’s training regimen.

Don’t get me wrong, I too play for hours at a times with friends and enjoy the activity but I do not kid myself into believing that I am improving my game. Improving one's skill is not the same as playing. I suspect that many excellent players spent far more time than they needed just banging balls and not enough time learning to play well or they would have played well sooner.

Think about the way coaches train athletes. Sessions may go on for lengthy periods but they take breaks and are continually shifting gears and working on different aspects of their sport. The player who is serious needs a training regimen. Playing ten or more hours a day is just that – playing.

I know when I played a lot and others I knew coming up in their game, we used to play hours upon hours on end. This is not playing someone else, but concerted practice time working on shooting the same shot over and over, or drills, or playing the ghost. It was never standard or necessary in my opinion to play 20 min and then take a break or an hour even. The intense real effort can be carried throughout hours of real practice. It all hinges in the end on how much you love the game, and desire to get better.


I understand the point of playing fresh. No where in pool except for the first 30 minutes of any match are your truly "fresh." As Cleary pointed out, most events you have to be seasoned to play and be tough the opposite of that. All of the semi pro tournaments I had ever attended were like that. I would get there at 10am, and play throughout the whole day until 1 in the morning. The only time I ever played fresh matches was in WPBA tournaments, where I would play one, maybe two matches in a day - hours a part. I did not like this format, and would prefer to play matches on end, just as I was seasoned to do. Your arm stays loose, and you stay within the flow of playing the game if done over hours in a day. It was definitely difficult to do that playing a match at 10 and then the next one at 5pm for the evening matches.

My best practice sessions where I got the most out of them were those 6-8-10 hours when I couldn't feel my arm anymore. My cuestick became an "extension" of my arm - and that balls actually looked square in shape.

Tiring mentally can make your concentration suffer. The reason why my concentration doesn't waver is because it is more important because of my inherent desire to win and play well for me not to allow it. Even if I am tired, I want to win, I want to play well, so you force yourself past the tiredness to win. It would never be allowable by me because of my love of the game in practice to start banging at balls. The practice then stops if I were to feel the need or want to do that kind of thing.

 

[CrownCityCorey]

My cuestick became an "extension" of my arm - and that balls actually looked square in shape.

Now that's bad-ass!

 

[Bob Jewett]

I recall an article -- probably from the 1970s -- in which Lassiter was asked how he prepared for a tournament. He said that he generally didn't play much or at all between major events, but starting two weeks before a tournament he would start to practice 8 hours a day. Lassiter was not typical in many ways, though, so YMMV.

 

[paksat]

I know when I played a lot and others I knew coming up in their game, we used to play hours upon hours on end. This is not playing someone else, but concerted practice time working on shooting the same shot over and over, or drills, or playing the ghost. It was never standard or necessary in my opinion to play 20 min and then take a break or an hour even. The intense real effort can be carried throughout hours of real practice. It all hinges in the end on how much you love the game, and desire to get better.


I understand the point of playing fresh. No where in pool except for the first 30 minutes of any match are your truly "fresh." As Cleary pointed out, most events you have to be seasoned to play and be tough the opposite of that. All of the semi pro tournaments I had ever attended were like that. I would get there at 10am, and play throughout the whole day until 1 in the morning. The only time I ever played fresh matches was in WPBA tournaments, where I would play one, maybe two matches in a day - hours a part. I did not like this format, and would prefer to play matches on end, just as I was seasoned to do. Your arm stays loose, and you stay within the flow of playing the game if done over hours in a day. It was definitely difficult to do that playing a match at 10 and then the next one at 5pm for the evening matches.

My best practice sessions where I got the most out of them were those 6-8-10 hours when I couldn't feel my arm anymore. My cuestick became an "extension" of my arm - and that balls actually looked square in shape.

Tiring mentally can make your concentration suffer. The reason why my concentration doesn't waver is because it is more important because of my inherent desire to win and play well for me not to allow it. Even if I am tired, I want to win, I want to play well, so you force yourself past the tiredness to win. It would never be allowable by me because of my love of the game in practice to start banging at balls. The practice then stops if I were to feel the need or want to do that kind of thing.

Maybe you have a stronger tolerance, but all that concentrated practice for hours just sends me into a slump.. in which the only way out is to wait from 3 days up to a week.

It's the same way with many of the people I know including the amateurs.

9-10 hours of concentrated play is ok if it's in a tourney or gambling, but in practice? Sure hasn't done me nothing but give me a headache and make me sick of pool in the past.

Subjective opinion though.

 

[Jaden]

I can understand a pro who's already there practicing so little...

No no I don't mean me :frown:

I was listening/watching TAR last night and the match between Corey and Archer when Mr. Schmidt came along to help commentate.

One of the people in the chat asked just how many hours he practiced per day and the guess was 10-14.

Just as I had assumed before, John said that his average "per day" was probably 20 minutes.. Surprised? I'm not.

He went on to say that he might play 20 minutes one day, then not play again for 4 days and then he might play an hour or 2 after that and so on.

He also noted that the average player shouldn't believe that the pros practice "hours and hours a day."

Obviously, SVB is an exception to this and I would say it shows as he is THE money man in the USA. But as for his comments, they come as no surprise.

JoeW on his site has an article stating that 3 sessions of focused practice time of just 45 minutes is more effective then 8 hours all together ( that's not word for word as i'm stressed for time here and i'm just getting the message out there ).

So for those aspiring to be pro or a great player... just some food for thought.

To someone who is aspiring to play at that level though, when still trying to attain that level, focused practice is great, more focused practice and practice with a good opponent and tournament play and money play etc... is better.

More important than any of these things, are practicing and attempting to figure out the things that cause you to lose concentration, miss, and the things you do when you are able to do exactly what you want, and determining a way to replicate them on command
Jaden

 

[alstl]

There used to be an interview with Irving Crane on azbtv and he said something similar. He said he practiced three or four days a week and that once you reach a certain table you are wasting your time practicing four hours a day. At a certain point your knowledge gets you through.

Of course Mr Crane also had a full time job selling Cadillacs so he probably didn't feel like practicing every day.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

The pros may not practice hours and hours a day, but ask him how much he played to get to that level. No one here is going to wake up one morning and just decide to play great pool. I have spoken with many "new" phenomenal players and watched a few come up. These guys are playing every day, sometimes all day. Their game jumps during these periods. At some point, they will plateau or at least slow the learning curve.

You kid yourself to think that anyone will "become" pro practicing/playing 20 minutes per day.

You, SJM and some others made some very good points in this thread. Nothing much to add other than I agree with you 100%.

 

[ShootingArts]

work ethic

You, SJM and some others made some very good points in this thread. Nothing much to add other than I agree with you 100%.

. . . and I agree with Terry 110% :grin: :grin: :grin: Folks can coast after reaching a certain level but the vast majority of the greatest have a very strong work ethic. Few realized that besides being very smart and analytical Ali spend more time in the gym than almost anyone. Gretsky put in unbelievable hours on the ice. The greatest benchrest shooter in the world would be shooting long into the evening after the matches were over, alone.

Some people are more naturally gifted than others, no question. However when you combine naturally gifted and a strong work ethic, that is when we see the monsters, superstars, whatever you want to call them or at least that is my opinion. The naturally gifted who don't put in the hours are often inconsistent. They may be brilliant one event, lousy the next. They also may flash across the sky for a few years and burn out or disappear when they then have to apply themselves to win.

A small disclaimer: None of the above is meant to apply to John or any pool player in particular. It is just what I have observed watching all types of competitors for many years.

Hu

 

[iba7467]

So for those aspiring to be pro or a great player... just some food for thought.

You kid yourself to think that anyone will "become" pro practicing/playing 20 minutes per day.

Did I say that?

The last statement in your original post somewhat infers it. I did not intend my statement to be demeaning in any way. I only want those here to recognize that though exceptionally gifted players (John Schmidt) may not need to practice to maintain their abilities, they certainly did to get to that point.

no good deed goes unpunished...LOL

sometimes it just does not pay to share what you think might be helpful info because of some of the nimrods on this forum.

As to this comment; I do not know you, but I feel your response is uncalled for. You chastise others for posting a response by calling them names.

Edit: End of response removed. No reason to be disrespectful just because an internet nobody showed disrespect.

 

[Mr. J]

What Luat told me...

My little friend Rodolfo Luat told me long ago.."two hours iss all you need, just break da balls and take ball-in-hand...you muss runout...dats it...."

Of course that was probably his reference to how he maintains his World Class Level of Play...

Jeff