A sad day for me and pool in America
- Thread starter Grady
- Start date
There are few if any "state championships" that require residency, but that really has nothing to do with having a national championship with representatives from each of the 50 states, if those representatives aren't even from the states they represent.Mark Griffin said:
You could theoretically end up with all 50 of your "state qualifying" players being Texas residents. How dumb would that make the whole state thing look? I see your points as well, but I just can't help but think how silly it will sound (and quite possibly cheapen your event) when your "state representatives" aren't even from the states they represent. I still think it would be better to do away with the whole states idea (unless you enforce residency) and just use various open qualifiers instead.
GRADY SHOULD HAVE BEEN INVITED...PERIOD!
With that being said, I have some issues with the CSI plans for "state champions" to be invited to future WPA events. First, in Texas, we have several high caliber players who would all be vying for very few spots. These players include, but are not limited to, JJ, Gabe (living here now), Syvler Ochoa, Chen Li and Charlie Bryant. Will some of these people be left out regardless of their past accomplishments? Second, if a lesser player wins a coveted state title and is invited to the WPA World Championship Events this will not be a proper reflection of American pool playing ability for the rest of the world. If the ultimate goal is to champion the sport, this system seems to be lacking. Third, state titles being played for "prestige" and "for very little money" seems more like amateur pool league rather than a sport played by professionals. Shouldn't "professionals" play for prize money above all else since that is what pro's do. I wonder if Tiger Woods or Tom Brady would play for trophies and $300.
In the end, these are just opinions and I appreciate what Mark Griffen is trying to do. I also understand that you must start somewhere. However, if this "new system" takes off, a good number of rightfully vilified players will be left out. This seems somewhat similar to Grady's problems with the current regime (namely the UPA). He is a player of legendary ability in 14.1 (and other games) and is a tireless promoter to boot. Yet, he always seesm to get left out. This is wrong. The "new" sport should be mindful of the past and pay hommage to the ladies and gentleman who made it what it is today.
With that being said, I have some issues with the CSI plans for "state champions" to be invited to future WPA events. First, in Texas, we have several high caliber players who would all be vying for very few spots. These players include, but are not limited to, JJ, Gabe (living here now), Syvler Ochoa, Chen Li and Charlie Bryant. Will some of these people be left out regardless of their past accomplishments? Second, if a lesser player wins a coveted state title and is invited to the WPA World Championship Events this will not be a proper reflection of American pool playing ability for the rest of the world. If the ultimate goal is to champion the sport, this system seems to be lacking. Third, state titles being played for "prestige" and "for very little money" seems more like amateur pool league rather than a sport played by professionals. Shouldn't "professionals" play for prize money above all else since that is what pro's do. I wonder if Tiger Woods or Tom Brady would play for trophies and $300.
In the end, these are just opinions and I appreciate what Mark Griffen is trying to do. I also understand that you must start somewhere. However, if this "new system" takes off, a good number of rightfully vilified players will be left out. This seems somewhat similar to Grady's problems with the current regime (namely the UPA). He is a player of legendary ability in 14.1 (and other games) and is a tireless promoter to boot. Yet, he always seesm to get left out. This is wrong. The "new" sport should be mindful of the past and pay hommage to the ladies and gentleman who made it what it is today.
I'm not sure if you understood his system. Nobody would have to be left out because they did not win their state title. They could just go to another state and try to win that other state's title so they could qualify for the nationals representing that other state.J. Learned Hand said:
I also wouldn't want to see anyone from Texas, for example, be excluded because they did not win the Texas state title, but I also think it is silly for a Texas resident to be the state representative of say Rhode Island.
That is why I felt it was best to forget the whole state thing and just have all 64 players qualify through various open qualifiers. The only other option that makes any sense is to enforce that a player must reside in the state that they represent, and let everyone else fight it out for the other 14 spots in various open qualifiers. It's far easier and more fair to just forget the whole state thing though.
We all get old some day and our skills start to diminish. We are no longer the players we were twenty and thirty years before. It is a wise man who realizes this and does not try to live on past accomplishments.
I think it is a smart athlete who realizes when his day in the Sun is over. I've seen professional athletes who were once great, trying to hang on, and it isn't pretty. I remember the great Willie Mays at the tail end of his career, when he was playing on fumes. It was a sad sight.
I give credit to a champion like Jim Rempe, who decided to hang it up when he was still very competitive. He knew he was no longer a threat to win and he didn't want to become just another also ran. Pool is a funny game and we often tend to over rate our abilities. I like to think I can still play as good as ever, but in my heart of hearts I know I can't.
Once upon a time I could fire balls in from off the end rail for the cash. But faced with the same shot today, I'm looking to duck. :smile:
I think it is a smart athlete who realizes when his day in the Sun is over. I've seen professional athletes who were once great, trying to hang on, and it isn't pretty. I remember the great Willie Mays at the tail end of his career, when he was playing on fumes. It was a sad sight.
I give credit to a champion like Jim Rempe, who decided to hang it up when he was still very competitive. He knew he was no longer a threat to win and he didn't want to become just another also ran. Pool is a funny game and we often tend to over rate our abilities. I like to think I can still play as good as ever, but in my heart of hearts I know I can't.
Once upon a time I could fire balls in from off the end rail for the cash. But faced with the same shot today, I'm looking to duck. :smile:
State Champs DO NOT GO TO WPA
J learned hand said: I have some issues with the CSI plans for "state champions" to be invited to future WPA events.
Will some of these people be left out regardless of their past accomplishments? Second, if a lesser player wins a coveted state title and is invited to the WPA World Championship Events this will not be a proper reflection of American pool playing ability for the rest of the world.
There is confusion - I did NOT say a 'state champion' will go to a WPA event. The 8-ball NATIONAL CHAMPION will be allowed to go to the WPA world event as one of the USA reps. There is a BIG difference.
This is system that will allow many regionals in addition to those that decide to go the 'state champ' way. There will plenty of opportunity for players to prove themselves. But without a decent ranking system, invitaionals would be selective at best. That is NOT the way it should be done.
Comments are still welcome!
Mark Griffin
markg@playbca.com
J learned hand said: I have some issues with the CSI plans for "state champions" to be invited to future WPA events.
Will some of these people be left out regardless of their past accomplishments? Second, if a lesser player wins a coveted state title and is invited to the WPA World Championship Events this will not be a proper reflection of American pool playing ability for the rest of the world.
There is confusion - I did NOT say a 'state champion' will go to a WPA event. The 8-ball NATIONAL CHAMPION will be allowed to go to the WPA world event as one of the USA reps. There is a BIG difference.
This is system that will allow many regionals in addition to those that decide to go the 'state champ' way. There will plenty of opportunity for players to prove themselves. But without a decent ranking system, invitaionals would be selective at best. That is NOT the way it should be done.
Comments are still welcome!
Mark Griffin
markg@playbca.com
Life changes, sports evolve. If our sport ever needed to be recognized as a true sport like BMX bicycles in the Olympics (makes me puke) then we have to have structure, follow the rules in place to get recognition, and suck it up till we are recoginzed for being one of the oldest greatest games of all.....I can wait, our day WILL come, maybe not in my time.
Smorgass Bored said:
I think this is a great idea Grady, #8 is my favorite.
jay helfert said:
Relying on your past successes is the quickest route to failure. I was told this by a very wealthy man when I wasnt. I'm in that spot right now, sitting around talking about how I made over $100,000 to $200,000 week for 9 years without missing a week, until 3 months ago is not gonna do a damn thing for me, I'm only good as I am right now, so I'm busting my ass to get back where I was. Until to I do I'm only as good as my last paycheck-this aint Hollywood that pays royalties, life pays you for what you just did, not what happened. Respect.
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Grady said:
I can certainly understand having an emotions response to things Grady but emotions go up and down and need to be controlled by intellect and principles.
Vindictiveness just won't get you anywhere Grady. I hope you change your mind and focus your considerable energy and intellect on doing the ethical and right thing.
Edit: now that I've read past the initial post in this thread I see that principles and ethics have taken the front seat. I was sure you'd be able to get past the hurt and do the right thing.
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I only wish i could be as passionate and dedicated to the game as Grady is.
I am probably just half his age but I am already feeling that I will be long pass my prime before this is ever going to get any better. Just waiting around for people to sort out they stuff is too frustrating.
I am probably just half his age but I am already feeling that I will be long pass my prime before this is ever going to get any better. Just waiting around for people to sort out they stuff is too frustrating.
As far as invitational tournaments go Grady, at what point do you think a person is no longer deserving of an invitation based on past accomplishments? What if they can barely even stand or hold a cue anymore? Also, do you believe it is fair when you or someone else takes the spot of a more accomplished player because you are no longer at your peak?
I personally see it both ways. I don't think that someone should be allowed to take the spot of a more deserving player just because they "used" to be top player in the past.
On the flip side I would hate to never see any more legends at invitational tournaments just because they are past their prime.
That's why I believe it should be up to the individual promoter. There may not really be a right or wrong here.
I personally see it both ways. I don't think that someone should be allowed to take the spot of a more deserving player just because they "used" to be top player in the past.
On the flip side I would hate to never see any more legends at invitational tournaments just because they are past their prime.
That's why I believe it should be up to the individual promoter. There may not really be a right or wrong here.
i sure wish the hell i could have became half the player he is(Grady), let alone was. to play that good for a month would be an amazing experience.
Grady Imagine how you would feel if you wernt blessed with the talent you have for pool? be greatful that you can play unlike most people who think they can play.
Grady Imagine how you would feel if you wernt blessed with the talent you have for pool? be greatful that you can play unlike most people who think they can play.
Grady said:
Be careful your events might break ya financially!
Tonight I was at that event and there were about 60 spectators
How does that make you feel!
You should be able to play in this event!
There probely will be no more but kazaam you can take it over and fund it and since you are the sponsor you can play !!!
What do you say now!!
How much added will your event have?
titles
Grady,
All of your titles are intact and will remain that way forever. The only way that others have of taking away your accomplishments is if you let them. You earned your place in pool, those trying to pretend anything different are the shams.
Hu
Grady,
All of your titles are intact and will remain that way forever. The only way that others have of taking away your accomplishments is if you let them. You earned your place in pool, those trying to pretend anything different are the shams.
Hu
Grady said:
Fatboy said:
Fatboy, you are blessed with the tact to communicate with people. If Grady was half the person you are, he wouldn't be taking all of this flac.
We all are good at something and all people are valuable. Imagine a world where someone doesn't know how to spell and can have great your success!
Personally, I don't measure success in dollars but by character, values, and principals.
Fatboy said:
Well for one thing, you're learning how to spell. Maybe you can be a writer and pump out a "How To" book on getting rich, the Fatboy way. Hey, it worked for Trudough. :smile:
This whole thing really is not as difficult as people are making it. When I was an active USPSA shooter (a game that has about .01% the number of players and money as pool) There were state, regional and national matches for separate divisions. The state matches were run on a local club level (think pool room) and the regional matches were for a 5 -6 state area. To go to the nationals you had to win a slot by finishing high in a state or area match. It was awesome.
There was no residency requirements for the state events so we would go and shoot 6 or 7 different ones a year. Each state match had its own flavor from the people and location it was held and was a real ball to attend. Certain state matches got a reputation for being really fun and they would sell out quick. The entry for the matches were the same or a little higher than pool ($100-150) and you wouldnt really make any money unless you won the whole match but the thing that really mattered was not winning $500-600 bucks it was winning that slot to Nationals.
I miss that sense of unity and having a goal to reach. If a sport with a few thousand participants can organize a system like this and make it work I believe pool sure as hell better be able to do it. I think it is going to be great and can't wait. There will be things that have to be changed along the way just like with anything new and questions will be asked and answered but I for one am 100% for it and cant wait to be at the first US National 8 Ball Championship that is held from this.
There was no residency requirements for the state events so we would go and shoot 6 or 7 different ones a year. Each state match had its own flavor from the people and location it was held and was a real ball to attend. Certain state matches got a reputation for being really fun and they would sell out quick. The entry for the matches were the same or a little higher than pool ($100-150) and you wouldnt really make any money unless you won the whole match but the thing that really mattered was not winning $500-600 bucks it was winning that slot to Nationals.
I miss that sense of unity and having a goal to reach. If a sport with a few thousand participants can organize a system like this and make it work I believe pool sure as hell better be able to do it. I think it is going to be great and can't wait. There will be things that have to be changed along the way just like with anything new and questions will be asked and answered but I for one am 100% for it and cant wait to be at the first US National 8 Ball Championship that is held from this.
Grady said:
Mr. Grady,
Let me tell you something.
Pool as whole in the US is not organized, might want to look at Eurotour as a professional example and suggest to somebody to follow their way of thinking and doing things. In the US with APA, BCA, UPA, USPPA everybody talks and nobody rules. The way to do this fair to everybody in the sport is what they are doing in Europe.
You have divisions and you play on tour to keep your status. You as well other former pro's can not live out of your past glory of being a awesome 1 Pocket player - you have to prove it by playing on a tour (like a championship).
You need to have different Championships (1 pocket, 9b, 8b, straight, etc) and within each variance of the sport be divided by divisions even if you want to do it by states or by time (pst, cst, est, etc).
That is the way to go and the organization that rules the sport gets sponsorship, TV, etc, etc.
The problem is that everybody wants to make money running their leagues and that is the reason why billiards has never been taken serious at the Olympic Committee. WPBA is the only structure that got just a bit closer to be organized and that is the reason why they are on ESPN. Focus on promoting the game, not gambling, go to Vegas for that and stop whynning. We do not have a unique organization that can coordinate effectively the sport of billiards. Perhaps Mr. Mark G. from BCA might be able to enlighten us with the announcement he did awhile back that we was going to organize the sport and make it profitable to the pro's and everybody that really loves the sport.
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