ABP- the difference between pros that play for a living

The ABP needs to get a grip and realize they are not the NBA, NFL, or MLB players union. They have to have a marketable product first and foremost and while I think pool and billiards SHOULD get TV exposure the numbers just have never panned out.

Maybe Barry should just $h!tcan the whole thing. He scrambles every year to break even and the players are acting like he's robbing them by giving them cash to cover their expenses and a post dated check.

I am a Professional in as many ways as the members of the ABP if not more. I don't think the ABP has certification tests for admittance or continuing education credits. They may have yearly fees???

I travel every week and pay my expenses out of my own pocket and the client never reimburses them before I leave. The expenses get included on my check that gets cut 30-120 days later. If I want cash going out the door I usually have to extend a 20% discount. I wonder if Barry would go off for this years winner taking 32k out the door or the whole 40k in a month or 3....???

And FYI if I don't produce I don't get paid either....
 
As far as the US Open goes Barry does not have to add a dime....and if he didn't I wonder how successful the event would have been in the past. I do not think it's ok to slow pay players, however I think the players don't appreciate the added money in events. They just show up, play, and want to leave with the money without knowing what it takes to come up with all that added dough. What do the players do for pool or put up to "earn" that added money? I heard the run out radio broadcast in which Rodney says players will be doing more in the future and hope this happens.

I do hope that ABP will start their own tour and then I think it will be seen how much work and effort and the costs associated with making it happen. Players need to do more to promote the sport for the benefit of the game and in turn they will benefit from it as a whole. I would love to see pool prosper but there's a ton of work that the players need to do to promote it. If the players start their own tour then they would have vested interest and work harder to make it happen.

Good luck to the ABP!! Please accept any input from the forum as you need all the help you can get. If you let those on here push your buttons and in turn attack them and treat them as people who "just don't get it" then you will alienate yourself as American Billiard "Professionals". Professionalism no matter what the circumstances will gain you fans and maybe one day sponsorship. Professionalism is a must. Earl has lost fans due to lack of professionalism and many pull against him, just as they will pull against the ABP if you alienate those who fill stands, buy billiard products (which are sold by potential sponsors), and pay the gate or buy the streaming. All of these things are essential to your success.
 
Not trying to be funny, or cute, but this looks as though it has been a public relations disaster.

Retaining a quality PR firm may be a smart move going forward.

J
I'm thinking the same thing...a total PR disaster for ANY organization, let alone from a tenuous, fledgling group like the ABP. This debacle reinforces the premise that pool players have little business sense. Sorry to be coarse, but this could not have been handled any worse, guys.

You have some noble ideas, but the art is negotiation...not take it leave it! You've taken a very hard line on your first foray...which I don't think you can win from. Especially in public opinion.

You might have chosen to lower your demands & build upon that success. Maybe require a solid 50-75% in escrow (knowing he needs to collect from vendors & gate). Instead, the ABP gambled, the ABP went all in, and the ABP will be forced to retreat or dissolve in chaos.

JMHO, YMMV, GL
 
80% of business in life do not pay u the very day u work or make a business transaction so if pool is to be proffesional why should it be different...Its the world standard for life..The u.s open is set in stone..40000 to 1st place alone..Since u are boycotting an event that pays 40000 to the sole winner, how many events do u have set in stone that will pay 40000 to the winner?
 
And no, some of us dont feel obligated to tell you who we are. Whats the point? To bash and harass us and our family, friends, sponsors, etc?

No, the point is to know who is telling us "the way it is". How can we even begin to respect you or your cause if we do not know who you are? What a joke.

-Eric Charlton
 
Who is this person speaking on behalf of the APB? Hopefully I can raise enough funds to go to the US Open this year and support the tournament because I like what Barry has at least tried to do for the game and the players
 
That's the kind of pressure most don't face. And that's why no one on the forums or pool industry will ever be able to relate to that unless you have been there.

Given the posts of the ABP "pros" I can honestly say that the non-pool playing professionals can relate to your arguements a hell of alot better then the people who have posted can relate to reality, the world that 99.9% of the people in the world actually live in.

You call yourself a "touring" professional, no, there is no professional tour. There are regional amature tours and some independent events and there are players who travel and try to make a living playing a strictly amature game. A small few like SVB and Archer actually make reasonable money due to their accomplishments, but the bulk of the people on your list are not making a living playing pool, they are making it teaching pool or working in a pool hall or doing exhibitions. That is not a professional pool player.

Pool in North America is not a professional game, not a professional sport, it is not currently even capable of truly supporting pool players. That is why AZBilliards often gets "professionals" on this forum begging the forum members for sponserships and money to go play in major events, they are not actually making enough money to do it themselves because the sport simply does not allow it.

And now in that already crap climate of pool, where most of you cannot actually making a living just "playing professional pool" you are going to try to play hardball with one of the best paydays of the whole year and the best payday that we normally see on this continent? Do you really want to go flip burgers for a living with your high school education and resume that reads "uhh ya, I played pool from 1996-2012 when we pros then shot ourselves in the foot and destroyed the few tournaments we had that were left". The reality is that yes you get paid late by the US Open, but you get paid, and few tournaments are paying you as well.

Want to see how well you can survive without events like the US Open? Want to try to make a living with the 20 other so called "pro" pool players in America by grinding out regional events for $1000 or $1500 first place prizes? Good luck, because that is the hole you twats are digging for yourselves right now with your actions of the last week and these posts.

Trust me, I know your side of things, you are fighting like crazy to try and NOT have to go and get a real job. You want to spend your life traveling and playing pool in different cities. Jump off the plane and see the baggage guy onloading your suitcase "man, that must suck", jump in a cab to the convention center and think "gee, driving a cab for a living must suck", get to the hotel and check in thinking that peon at the front desk that checked you in has it pretty crappy, and then go and shoot pool strutting around like a true professional, only you are not playing a true professional sport, sorry to burst your bubble. You want to be a proffesional pool player? What the hell have you guys been doing for the last 20 years while your game has existed WITHOUT a professoinal tour? Forget Barry, get off your asses, pool your talents and resources into something more profitable, like setting foundations for an actual bloody tour.

Go do some actual work, get together a business plan, spend 10 hours a day on the phone talking to possible sponsers, get decked out in an actual suit and go talk to some of the execs and get shot down 99% of the time for that 1% that pays off, talk to casinos and try to work in advertising deals for the space you need, try to talk to airlines to get an official airline that gets advertising for all events and in return gives you cheap flights to the pros for traveling to the events (not your wife and kids, not a flight to go see your dad, just flights to and from the event, just you). Do some charity work, go talk to school boards about doing exhibitions in schools, try to get some interest in the younger generation because those are your future possible fans and without some interest being spurred in this game you are NEVER going to be playing a true professional game, ever. When a tournament is going to go off in a city? Go out in the streets with 10,000 flyers and put them up on walls along with the concert ads and the like, do some actual footwork and let the general public know the sport exists because I know for a fact noone ever actually does this kind of stuff, and it is needed. You guys expect that the top TV station is going to interview you and suddenly 20,000 people are lined up outside the door, give me a bloody break.

You so called pros need to do some actual work, stop whining about Barry, he is not the problem, you and the sport you play are the problem. Fix the sport and stop expecting a pot of gold to suddenly fall from the sky and reward you with all the riches that your ego makes you think you deserve. Or, if you want to remain lazy, at this point I would be just as happy to see Johnny Archer working on a construction crew, Shawn Putnam driving my cab, and Charlie Williams doing telemarketing trying to sell cable subscriptions. At this point that would simply make me laugh, and rest assured, you guys are doing your best to put yourselves there.
 
sounds like me its more about the money than the game...but i hope all those haters and boycotters do stay home cause i'll still be at the us open and won't have to hear the so called professionals cry about getting paid...
 
I'm just going on my previous dealings with collective bargaining here, so it may be a long essay of 'Nothing to do with the situation', but it is just my personal opinion based on experience here:

As a fledgling organization, it would benefit you all to have the support of the pool community and public. It would be wise on the ABP's part to accept peoples opinions with a little class and dignity and dont have the "If you dont like us, fine." attitude. You will find that even those who don't agree with your point of view may and will still be sympathetic towards your cause.
What you guys are doing is right, in a sense, but you may be going about it in the wrong way.

You cant go the ways of the past organizations and just empty-threat everybody to death, and when the time comes for an event, show up with the 'They called our bluff and we lost' excuses.

Since you all had past experiences with Barry, you should have sat down with him, gone over your concerns, explain to him all the best reasons why he should WANT you to play. Explain to him all the things that could go WRONG if top pros didnt show up. Let him give you his side and reasoning.
It would go over well for you to do this being that you aren't asking for MORE money, just what is owed to you at in a reasonable time frame.
Once you have all that settled, now you have some direction you can use in the case that you would have to pull off a boycott. Throwing out a 'blind' boycott in an attempt to try to corner Barry into doing something is going to backfire because all that does is gives him the power to keep you guys dangling at the end of the rope. He can just say "Fine, dont show.", then you guys would be out any money, guaranteed or not. Of course, you'd save your expense $$. If he plays that card and you show up, then that proves to the pool world that the ABP is just another Say Something, Do Nothing attempt at a players union.

This boycott should have taken months and months to iron out. I suspect that it didnt take very long. I understand the idea may have been around a while though.

I do wish the best of luck to you guys and I hope you get what you deserve as far as timely pay goes and hopefully when all is said and done, this gets the wheels turning in the right direction for the sport.

yes, but the players cant make these decisions for themeselves in an efficacious manner. the players need representation, there is just no doubt about it. and that's not a knock on the players, if any person gets in trouble (for example), they may beed a lawyer. this is no different, there is a lot at stake and people's livlihoods are on the line... why in the world wouldnt all the players put in and get good front man/representative? and let me tell you the FIRST thing a good manager will tell the players "DONT POST IN ANY FORUMS." that is the first thing he'll say (if he's good). he'll tell you that he will take care of press releases and you guys dont need to do a thing, he'll even write the stuff you guys need to say to finally look good in the publics eye. no offense, im on the players side, believe me, but the players just have no idea what they are doing while representing themeselves.... why would they? it isnt their field.
 
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Given the posts of the ABP "pros" I can honestly say that the non-pool playing professionals can relate to your arguements a hell of alot better then the people who have posted can relate to reality, the world that 99.9% of the people in the world actually live in.

You call yourself a "touring" professional, no, there is no professional tour. There are regional amature tours and some independent events and there are players who travel and try to make a living playing a strictly amature game. A small few like SVB and Archer actually make reasonable money due to their accomplishments, but the bulk of the people on your list are not making a living playing pool, they are making it teaching pool or working in a pool hall or doing exhibitions. That is not a professional pool player.

Pool in North America is not a professional game, not a professional sport, it is not currently even capable of truly supporting pool players. That is why AZBilliards often gets "professionals" on this forum begging the forum members for sponserships and money to go play in major events, they are not actually making enough money to do it themselves because the sport simply does not allow it.

And now in that already crap climate of pool, where most of you cannot actually making a living just "playing professional pool" you are going to try to play hardball with one of the best paydays of the whole year and the best payday that we normally see on this continent? Do you really want to go flip burgers for a living with your high school education and resume that reads "uhh ya, I played pool from 1996-2012 when we pros then shot ourselves in the foot and destroyed the few tournaments we had that were left". The reality is that yes you get paid late by the US Open, but you get paid, and few tournaments are paying you as well.

Want to see how well you can survive without events like the US Open? Want to try to make a living with the 20 other so called "pro" pool players in America by grinding out regional events for $1000 or $1500 first place prizes? Good luck, because that is the hole you twats are digging for yourselves right now with your actions of the last week and these posts.

Trust me, I know your side of things, you are fighting like crazy to try and NOT have to go and get a real job. You want to spend your life traveling and playing pool in different cities. Jump off the plane and see the baggage guy onloading your suitcase "man, that must suck", jump in a cab to the convention center and think "gee, driving a cab for a living must suck", get to the hotel and check in thinking that peon at the front desk that checked you in has it pretty crappy, and then go and shoot pool strutting around like a true professional, only you are not playing a true professional sport, sorry to burst your bubble. You want to be a proffesional pool player? What the hell have you guys been doing for the last 20 years while your game has existed WITHOUT a professoinal tour? Forget Barry, get off your asses, pool your talents and resources into something more profitable, like setting foundations for an actual bloody tour.

Go do some actual work, get together a business plan, spend 10 hours a day on the phone talking to possible sponsers, get decked out in an actual suit and go talk to some of the execs and get shot down 99% of the time for that 1% that pays off, talk to casinos and try to work in advertising deals for the space you need, try to talk to airlines to get an official airline that gets advertising for all events and in return gives you cheap flights to the pros for traveling to the events (not your wife and kids, not a flight to go see your dad, just flights to and from the event, just you). Do some charity work, go talk to school boards about doing exhibitions in schools, try to get some interest in the younger generation because those are your future possible fans and without some interest being spurred in this game you are NEVER going to be playing a true professional game, ever. When a tournament is going to go off in a city? Go out in the streets with 10,000 flyers and put them up on walls along with the concert ads and the like, do some actual footwork and let the general public know the sport exists because I know for a fact noone ever actually does this kind of stuff, and it is needed. You guys expect that the top TV station is going to interview you and suddenly 20,000 people are lined up outside the door, give me a bloody break.

You so called pros need to do some actual work, stop whining about Barry, he is not the problem, you and the sport you play are the problem. Fix the sport and stop expecting a pot of gold to suddenly fall from the sky and reward you with all the riches that your ego makes you think you deserve. Or, if you want to remain lazy, at this point I would be just as happy to see Johnny Archer working on a construction crew, Shawn Putnam driving my cab, and Charlie Williams doing telemarketing trying to sell cable subscriptions. At this point that would simply make me laugh, and rest assured, you guys are doing your best to put yourselves there.

Awesome post....everyone has to work for a living....nothing is free....promoters are actually too generous as the put up this "FREE" added money and it seems our pros think it is "OWED" to them.....If you want to get paid you have to do something to earn it. If Barry would take away the added money then they could play for their entries just like other player supported sports (poker for example) and then everyone would be paid on time.

It saddens me that while the rest of us working stiffs have real jobs and real bills to pay that there are these guys who think they are owed something for being great at a game. Most of them are broke, virtually homeless, have no transportation, and no hope of retirement (no 401K, no social security). They live for today only and I could never live like that. I applaud those that have opened rooms, became promoters, or teachers of the game or have found a way to make pool profitable but for the majority this is not the case. I truly wish the sport were like golf and a great living could be made but it is up to the players to get it there. If you want it you must work for it.
 
"Industry wide standards" are the established rules, regulations, generally accepted operating procedures, practices and requirements of a given industry. They allow people operating within, or interacting with, a particilar industry know exactly what is to be expected from the various segments of that industry. For instance, everyone knows that they can expect to be paid their winnings, and must also pay their losings, immediately at a casino, or that they are not required to pay for a personal service before receiving it. Actions below those accepted standards are usually rejected as being unfair.

If pool, as a professional industry, was mature and established enough to already have all of these guidelines firmly anchored we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. So....

One of the primary roles and goals of any newly formed industry organization should be to work with the other industry leaders and organizations towards establishing industry standards that are reasonable, acceptable, beneficial, and achievable for everyone involved. Chest pounding and ultimatums usually beget more of the same.

Doing this successfully requires quite a bit; planning, hard work, time, patience, and an tremendous assortment of skills and knowledge. One of the "keys" to being successful is acknowledging what you are NOT good at, and being willing and able to recruit the best possible people to do it for you.

Good luck.

J
 
Given the posts of the ABP "pros" I can honestly say that the non-pool playing professionals can relate to your arguements a hell of alot better then the people who have posted can relate to reality, the world that 99.9% of the people in the world actually live in.

You call yourself a "touring" professional, no, there is no professional tour. There are regional amature tours and some independent events and there are players who travel and try to make a living playing a strictly amature game. A small few like SVB and Archer actually make reasonable money due to their accomplishments, but the bulk of the people on your list are not making a living playing pool, they are making it teaching pool or working in a pool hall or doing exhibitions. That is not a professional pool player.

Pool in North America is not a professional game, not a professional sport, it is not currently even capable of truly supporting pool players. That is why AZBilliards often gets "professionals" on this forum begging the forum members for sponserships and money to go play in major events, they are not actually making enough money to do it themselves because the sport simply does not allow it.

And now in that already crap climate of pool, where most of you cannot actually making a living just "playing professional pool" you are going to try to play hardball with one of the best paydays of the whole year and the best payday that we normally see on this continent? Do you really want to go flip burgers for a living with your high school education and resume that reads "uhh ya, I played pool from 1996-2012 when we pros then shot ourselves in the foot and destroyed the few tournaments we had that were left". The reality is that yes you get paid late by the US Open, but you get paid, and few tournaments are paying you as well.

Want to see how well you can survive without events like the US Open? Want to try to make a living with the 20 other so called "pro" pool players in America by grinding out regional events for $1000 or $1500 first place prizes? Good luck, because that is the hole you twats are digging for yourselves right now with your actions of the last week and these posts.

Trust me, I know your side of things, you are fighting like crazy to try and NOT have to go and get a real job. You want to spend your life traveling and playing pool in different cities. Jump off the plane and see the baggage guy onloading your suitcase "man, that must suck", jump in a cab to the convention center and think "gee, driving a cab for a living must suck", get to the hotel and check in thinking that peon at the front desk that checked you in has it pretty crappy, and then go and shoot pool strutting around like a true professional, only you are not playing a true professional sport, sorry to burst your bubble. You want to be a proffesional pool player? What the hell have you guys been doing for the last 20 years while your game has existed WITHOUT a professoinal tour? Forget Barry, get off your asses, pool your talents and resources into something more profitable, like setting foundations for an actual bloody tour.

Go do some actual work, get together a business plan, spend 10 hours a day on the phone talking to possible sponsers, get decked out in an actual suit and go talk to some of the execs and get shot down 99% of the time for that 1% that pays off, talk to casinos and try to work in advertising deals for the space you need, try to talk to airlines to get an official airline that gets advertising for all events and in return gives you cheap flights to the pros for traveling to the events (not your wife and kids, not a flight to go see your dad, just flights to and from the event, just you). Do some charity work, go talk to school boards about doing exhibitions in schools, try to get some interest in the younger generation because those are your future possible fans and without some interest being spurred in this game you are NEVER going to be playing a true professional game, ever. When a tournament is going to go off in a city? Go out in the streets with 10,000 flyers and put them up on walls along with the concert ads and the like, do some actual footwork and let the general public know the sport exists because I know for a fact noone ever actually does this kind of stuff, and it is needed. You guys expect that the top TV station is going to interview you and suddenly 20,000 people are lined up outside the door, give me a bloody break.

You so called pros need to do some actual work, stop whining about Barry, he is not the problem, you and the sport you play are the problem. Fix the sport and stop expecting a pot of gold to suddenly fall from the sky and reward you with all the riches that your ego makes you think you deserve. Or, if you want to remain lazy, at this point I would be just as happy to see Johnny Archer working on a construction crew, Shawn Putnam driving my cab, and Charlie Williams doing telemarketing trying to sell cable subscriptions. At this point that would simply make me laugh, and rest assured, you guys are doing your best to put yourselves there.



I think this is the best post I have read regarding this entire situation. I could not agree more with you on any of the points you have made they are all true.

But the sad thing is that these Pre-Madonnas will pay no attention to what you have to say hell they are pool in there own minds and every single one of them think they are legendary.:D

But the people who count us no bodies that feed and cloth these people with small donations through attendance to their events, pay for and buy the items that they are sponsored for and endorse, and pay for their exhibitions can do more than anyone else by simply boycotting them all and ending all the bullshit.

Back in the day Americans rebelled by dumping tea in the ocean, all we have to do is turn our backs on these people and we can do more as a group than any organization they have ever formed. We can effectively stop all this nonsense with nothing but unity and a single minded voice.

I hope that it doesn't come to this, and I truly hope things will change but I am not going to hold my breath because over the last 40 years I have seen things go from bad to worst and it still has not hit rock bottom as yet.

But this could be the single straw that breaks the camels back so I hope those to can make the changes see the light before the candle burns out and they left standing in the dark, or left standing on a street corner with a sign that reads Professional Player out of work, please help I will play or work for food!!!!!!;)

JIMO
 
Celtic.... Great post... I'm not sure I have EVER agreed with you on anything but this was spot on.....
 
Good grief. Up until now, I've been on the players side and defended the players side of this debacle. No wonder you won't tell us who this is with comments like you're making.

I'll give Putnam credit for one thing, at least he manned up to who he was no matter how ignorant he came across as.

I'm done following this crap. Round about non-answers from someone that won't tell you who they are but want you to respect them and have high standards for & support them. Really? Good luck with that.

May I respectfully request why it is important that you know who is posting? You had posted to me one time that you wanted to keep your identity a secret. It's okay. I understand why. I wish I had kept my identity a secret, too. It would have saved me a lot of headaches and hurt feeling.

I'm just curious why somebody who wants their own identity kept secret would request somebody else to expose their identity. :smile:

There are advantages to posting under an alias, I think. There are also advantages to posting under your own identity. I guess members need to choose which one is appropriate for them, I think.
 
...That's the kind of pressure most don't face. And that's why no one on the forums or pool industry will ever be able to relate to that unless you have been there.

I totally empathize with your stance. I do understand how much it costs to attend two, three, and four pool tournaments every month. You have to win, place, or show just to break even. Even if you win, you're so stuck from previous tournaments that you can't get ahead.

After following the tournament trail on American soil only for five or six years, my household blew six figures.

The existing lot of American professional players is dwindling. Professional pool is too expensive to follow the tournament trail, unless you're staked or backed or sponsored. More and more lucrative tournaments are being held off of American soil, which means more expenses.

Thanks for taking the time to post. I hope you-all work out your differences with Barry Behrman. I think we can all agree that this would be the best for all parties involved. :smile:
 
I understand Celtic's stance. Truly, I do. I'm on both sides of the fence here, I guess.

Unless you walk in the shoes of those pool players who do this 24/7, it may be difficult to understand the culture, for lack of a better word.

It's not that they don't want to get a *real* job, like most of us working stiffs. There's a little more to it.

Some of those pros do go the extra mile and give back to the pool world, but it often goes unnoticed. The only thing that seems to make the headlines are the negative things, like what's going on now. You don't hear about how they went overseas and spent time with the troops or how they held a clinic for young children or the charity tournament put on by a pro.

It's darn near impossible to work a *normal* job and play pool professionally. It would be difficult to ask your employer to take off work every month to attend events. This is why some pro players quit playing pool competitively and pursued other pool-related revenue sources, like Mike Zuglan and the Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour, like Allen Hopkins and his pool extravaganzas, like Nick Varner and his cues, et cetera, et cetera.

I just throw this out there as food for thought for those who think getting a job would remedy the problem. In essence, it's almost as if some think the pros should just throw in the towel and quit playing, because that's what would have to happen. There's nothing wrong with them wanting the pool scene to improve for professional competitions. To say they are doing nothing to effect a change for the better is not fair. I have personally witnessed with my own eyes many things these so-called "pros" have done to try to improve the pool climate.
 
Celtic, you summed it up rather nicely, great writing bro, exactly what I was thinking but you put them with nice words, rep.

I mean, the US Open is the biggest money out of all tournaments, and they are not happy because they get paid later, come on, what are you trying to accomplish, if the US Open is not there, you will be traveling to pay in tournaments which the 1st place pays only for 1000, is that what you want?

on the other hand, about asking the guy about his name, really I don't understand why people wants to know the guy's name, even tho I don't agree with him, but he's just expressing the way he feels, and he wants to remain anonymous, afterall its what the internet has to offer, free speech and expression with anonymousness if you desire, it's fine, you really guys shouldn't know his name, if thats what he wants, all you know is he's a pro player or a "group" maybe, and they are expressing how they feel, which is fine, no name needed imo.
 
Celtic is right on, you also kinda got to go with Jam. To play at that level, it would be pretty hard to keep any kind of job that pays well enough to support such efforts.
With that being said, I save up all year to go to SBE, watch as many streams as I can, have been to a few tourny's in Vegas, and have been all over the N.W. to play.
You can find foosball, surfing, and dart tournaments with more guaranteed money than pool.
It is a sad situation.
As for putting a name out there, I guess it's just how strong you believe in your stance.
I'm John Casey, as stated in earlier posts a nobody in the pool world - just a fan.
 
Given the posts of the ABP "pros" I can honestly say that the non-pool playing professionals can relate to your arguements a hell of alot better then the people who have posted can relate to reality, the world that 99.9% of the people in the world actually live in.

You call yourself a "touring" professional, no, there is no professional tour. There are regional amature tours and some independent events and there are players who travel and try to make a living playing a strictly amature game. A small few like SVB and Archer actually make reasonable money due to their accomplishments, but the bulk of the people on your list are not making a living playing pool, they are making it teaching pool or working in a pool hall or doing exhibitions. That is not a professional pool player.

Pool in North America is not a professional game, not a professional sport, it is not currently even capable of truly supporting pool players. That is why AZBilliards often gets "professionals" on this forum begging the forum members for sponserships and money to go play in major events, they are not actually making enough money to do it themselves because the sport simply does not allow it.

And now in that already crap climate of pool, where most of you cannot actually making a living just "playing professional pool" you are going to try to play hardball with one of the best paydays of the whole year and the best payday that we normally see on this continent? Do you really want to go flip burgers for a living with your high school education and resume that reads "uhh ya, I played pool from 1996-2012 when we pros then shot ourselves in the foot and destroyed the few tournaments we had that were left". The reality is that yes you get paid late by the US Open, but you get paid, and few tournaments are paying you as well.

Want to see how well you can survive without events like the US Open? Want to try to make a living with the 20 other so called "pro" pool players in America by grinding out regional events for $1000 or $1500 first place prizes? Good luck, because that is the hole you twats are digging for yourselves right now with your actions of the last week and these posts.

Trust me, I know your side of things, you are fighting like crazy to try and NOT have to go and get a real job. You want to spend your life traveling and playing pool in different cities. Jump off the plane and see the baggage guy onloading your suitcase "man, that must suck", jump in a cab to the convention center and think "gee, driving a cab for a living must suck", get to the hotel and check in thinking that peon at the front desk that checked you in has it pretty crappy, and then go and shoot pool strutting around like a true professional, only you are not playing a true professional sport, sorry to burst your bubble. You want to be a proffesional pool player? What the hell have you guys been doing for the last 20 years while your game has existed WITHOUT a professoinal tour? Forget Barry, get off your asses, pool your talents and resources into something more profitable, like setting foundations for an actual bloody tour.

Go do some actual work, get together a business plan, spend 10 hours a day on the phone talking to possible sponsers, get decked out in an actual suit and go talk to some of the execs and get shot down 99% of the time for that 1% that pays off, talk to casinos and try to work in advertising deals for the space you need, try to talk to airlines to get an official airline that gets advertising for all events and in return gives you cheap flights to the pros for traveling to the events (not your wife and kids, not a flight to go see your dad, just flights to and from the event, just you). Do some charity work, go talk to school boards about doing exhibitions in schools, try to get some interest in the younger generation because those are your future possible fans and without some interest being spurred in this game you are NEVER going to be playing a true professional game, ever. When a tournament is going to go off in a city? Go out in the streets with 10,000 flyers and put them up on walls along with the concert ads and the like, do some actual footwork and let the general public know the sport exists because I know for a fact noone ever actually does this kind of stuff, and it is needed. You guys expect that the top TV station is going to interview you and suddenly 20,000 people are lined up outside the door, give me a bloody break.

You so called pros need to do some actual work, stop whining about Barry, he is not the problem, you and the sport you play are the problem. Fix the sport and stop expecting a pot of gold to suddenly fall from the sky and reward you with all the riches that your ego makes you think you deserve. Or, if you want to remain lazy, at this point I would be just as happy to see Johnny Archer working on a construction crew, Shawn Putnam driving my cab, and Charlie Williams doing telemarketing trying to sell cable subscriptions. At this point that would simply make me laugh, and rest assured, you guys are doing your best to put yourselves there.

i love how this is the post that the concensus seems to think is right on..... and look at it..... really read it. it's arrogant, it's negative, it attempts to discredit US "pro pool" (for whatever reason?), it denounces and mocks the game's top players, it's sardonic. i think there are actually some good points in there, namely that pro players need to get off their butts and make some stuff happen (look what a single man, arnold palmer, did for golf).... but it makes this point in a very negative, and thus not constructive, fashion.

again, this is the post the concesus thinks is spot on. is it starting to make sense why we are all where we're at? it is obvious to me at this point that pool's problems are with us all, players included. we need to focus on positive and constructive discourse-- there just needs to be a lot more all around professionalism. i think the players, from the little i have read here, are doing a fairly good job too. they are here communicating in a calm fashion-- and i haven't seen any negative attacks (i realize i could have missed something). i think its our turn now.... lets back them up and try to really make some things happen. really, let's just try and forget all the bs, get together, be positive, and make things happen.
 
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