ABP/US Open - So what is the next move??
- Thread starter pro9dg
- Start date
Let's be clear about something. The US Open does not NEED to have WPA sanctioning. By having sanctioning the tournament gets to be included in the world ranking points which then helps players to get invites to OTHER WPA events. The BCA is the North American member of the WPA. It is not and has never been the governing body of professional pool in the United States. The BCA merely maintains a ranking list of it's own formula that it uses to hand out the spots that the WPA allocates to North American players for entry into WPA tournaments.
To say that the BCA should be the ones to govern professional pool is not entirely accurate as that has never been their role. The players as a group SHOULD be represented by their own group. But they are completely unable to do this because they DO NOT want to do the work to make it happen.
I repeat, they DO NOT want to spend time in an office making calls, doing paperwork, running errands, lining up venues, making sure that the toilets are kept clean and the hundreds of other tasks that any organization needs to have done in order to function.
They want all the cake, to demand of promoters how tournaments should be run, to demand how prize funds should be secured, to demand how players should be seeded, but are completely unwilling to work together as a group to make that happen.
We have been riding this merry-go-round for decades. Time to get off as fans. Let them deal with it as they wish and let us just sit back and enjoy the play by whoever shows up at the tournament.
Look, I love Johnny, Rodney, Corey, Shane and all the American pros. As people they are all great, gracious, humble, full of great stories, and of course amazingly skilled. But frankly as a group they are ineffective. It's too bad because a lot of us respect the ideals they stand for and we would like to see them get their due for the amount of dedication they put in to get to the world class level.
Unfortunately they are coming up against the hard reality that being world class at anything is not enough if there is no structure to appreciate and reward it. Being world class is only the product, in order to place that product in the market there has to be a market for it and if there is a market then to get shelf space takes effort. There is simply no way around it.
Let's use a farmer as an example. The farmer grow the world's best tomatoes. Well unless the farmer figures out how to sell them and make people aware that he has the best best tomatoes he will go broke surrounded by awesome tomatoes. So the farmer has to get up at 3am and drive two hours to the city to set up a stall at the farmer's market so that he can reach the customers. He has to get his product out there and placed in in order to gain any leverage in the market. Once there he gets attention and power. People ask him what his secret is, he gets to write books on tomato growing, Rachel Ray praises his tomatoes and Ellen swoons as much as she can....... none of which happens unless the farmer does MORE than simply growing the tomatoes. Either he must do it or someone else must do it and either way it's more time and money over and above the actual growing of tomatoes, or the act of playing pool.
This is something that every pro players knows deep in their heart. But they don't want to be the ones doing all the work, probably partially to the detriment of their game, while their colleagues reap the rewards. So they hold back and don't have any organization anyway, no leader saying you do this and you do that. So even if any of them REALLY want to work to make a pro organization work what should they do?
Frankly, I'd be really happy if my pro friends were all millionaires. Not only could I get more business out of it but the parties would be off the hook. And on a more practical level they could all provide for their families without worrying about whether their choice of career was the right one. But at the end of the day this is a fringe sport in a sea of things that capture the attention and money of the average person. So the ONLY way to get your piece of the pie that is there is to get off your asses and make it happen because in this game the amount of people willing to hand you opportunities is very little. If you crap on them with nothing more than empty threats then eventually even they will give up and turn their attention to less stressful activities.
In my opinion that is.
To say that the BCA should be the ones to govern professional pool is not entirely accurate as that has never been their role. The players as a group SHOULD be represented by their own group. But they are completely unable to do this because they DO NOT want to do the work to make it happen.
I repeat, they DO NOT want to spend time in an office making calls, doing paperwork, running errands, lining up venues, making sure that the toilets are kept clean and the hundreds of other tasks that any organization needs to have done in order to function.
They want all the cake, to demand of promoters how tournaments should be run, to demand how prize funds should be secured, to demand how players should be seeded, but are completely unwilling to work together as a group to make that happen.
We have been riding this merry-go-round for decades. Time to get off as fans. Let them deal with it as they wish and let us just sit back and enjoy the play by whoever shows up at the tournament.
Look, I love Johnny, Rodney, Corey, Shane and all the American pros. As people they are all great, gracious, humble, full of great stories, and of course amazingly skilled. But frankly as a group they are ineffective. It's too bad because a lot of us respect the ideals they stand for and we would like to see them get their due for the amount of dedication they put in to get to the world class level.
Unfortunately they are coming up against the hard reality that being world class at anything is not enough if there is no structure to appreciate and reward it. Being world class is only the product, in order to place that product in the market there has to be a market for it and if there is a market then to get shelf space takes effort. There is simply no way around it.
Let's use a farmer as an example. The farmer grow the world's best tomatoes. Well unless the farmer figures out how to sell them and make people aware that he has the best best tomatoes he will go broke surrounded by awesome tomatoes. So the farmer has to get up at 3am and drive two hours to the city to set up a stall at the farmer's market so that he can reach the customers. He has to get his product out there and placed in in order to gain any leverage in the market. Once there he gets attention and power. People ask him what his secret is, he gets to write books on tomato growing, Rachel Ray praises his tomatoes and Ellen swoons as much as she can....... none of which happens unless the farmer does MORE than simply growing the tomatoes. Either he must do it or someone else must do it and either way it's more time and money over and above the actual growing of tomatoes, or the act of playing pool.
This is something that every pro players knows deep in their heart. But they don't want to be the ones doing all the work, probably partially to the detriment of their game, while their colleagues reap the rewards. So they hold back and don't have any organization anyway, no leader saying you do this and you do that. So even if any of them REALLY want to work to make a pro organization work what should they do?
Frankly, I'd be really happy if my pro friends were all millionaires. Not only could I get more business out of it but the parties would be off the hook. And on a more practical level they could all provide for their families without worrying about whether their choice of career was the right one. But at the end of the day this is a fringe sport in a sea of things that capture the attention and money of the average person. So the ONLY way to get your piece of the pie that is there is to get off your asses and make it happen because in this game the amount of people willing to hand you opportunities is very little. If you crap on them with nothing more than empty threats then eventually even they will give up and turn their attention to less stressful activities.
In my opinion that is.
Valid points.
BUT -- you knew I'd have a "but" in here, didn't you? :grin-square:
But if mainstream America has NEVER known what eating a tomato is like, they're not going to be eager to purchase a tomato from the farmer. It doesn't matter how tasty and good that farmer's tomato is.
Pool is an unknown entity to mainstream America. It's hard to push a product with no money behind it for advertising. Most of the pro players, with the exception of two that I can think of, are unsponsored. They are scraping funds together to have enough money to pay the entry fee, hotel, food, and compete.
Where are they supposed to get the funds to advertise their tomatoes to mainstream America? Therein lies the problem. If nobody in America eats tomatoes or even knows what a tomato tastes like, it's a hard sell, even with funds.
It would take a massive overhaul, with an infusion of funds, to get these tomatoes out to market while they're still ripe. :wink:
Unfortunately, one entity is creating rotten tomatoes out of the American pros, and it's leaving a bad taste in everybody's mouths. Soon nobody will give a damn about tomatoes, remembering these rotten ones aka ABP players that have come to the fore as of late. :sorry:
Jennie,
America knows full well what pool is. Perhaps more than any other physical sport pool has been played by just about everyone at some point in their lives.
I didn't say that professional players are supposed to market pool. THAT is the BCA's job. Professional players should market themselves.
The APB is just the latest incarnation. Before them it was the UPA, then the MPBA, and CJ Wiley had the UPA, and there have been other groups.
The conflict with "promoters" is age old and is present in all sports. The only sports where the players get a truly fair shake in all events are the ones where the player's association IS strong.
I can tell you where the players can get the money to fund an organization. You already know where it is and no player wants to hear it.
America knows full well what pool is. Perhaps more than any other physical sport pool has been played by just about everyone at some point in their lives.
I didn't say that professional players are supposed to market pool. THAT is the BCA's job. Professional players should market themselves.
The APB is just the latest incarnation. Before them it was the UPA, then the MPBA, and CJ Wiley had the UPA, and there have been other groups.
The conflict with "promoters" is age old and is present in all sports. The only sports where the players get a truly fair shake in all events are the ones where the player's association IS strong.
I can tell you where the players can get the money to fund an organization. You already know where it is and no player wants to hear it.
I noticed their funding issues are surfacing as well.
They used to have a website. Now they are a facebook group. They should go even more under ground and become a google group with a google site.
Google groups have more features for actual office related productivity. Facebook groups I don't know, too many filters, censors and restrictions.
Now I'm curious. Where can players get the money to fund an organization and why does no player want to hear it?
John...CJ's organization was called the PCA (Professional Cuesports Asso.); and you forgot about Don Mackey's PBTA (Professional Billiards Tour Asso.), which was after Hopkins MPBA, but before CJ's PCA. All in all, a great post, btw.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Tomatoes, man! Are you not following?!!?
Well why don't you tell us all John, or is it a secret for some reason?
Its odd to me that the BCA 'isn't supposed to be' the governing body for professional pool, yet, they do rank the professionals with their own system, which later determines who goes where. And they are the only association in North America that the WPA will sanction, so, it sounds like they are actually governing something after all.
Between that, and the HOF, and the rule books, it looks more to me like they cant decide exactly what they want to govern.
I was hoping to eventually figure out how billiards in the US is organized, but it looks to be something like this
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471904576229250860034510.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471904576229250860034510.html
If you can't beat them, exclude them! If the ABP beocmes the sanctioning body of the US Open, the WPA sanctioning will be lifted, causing countless internationals who are supported financially to compete in WPA events to skip the event. Whether it happens this year or next, that would be the result.
Guess US players not named Shane are tired of missing out on all the biggest titles in the world of pool. Anyone who can remember the last time an American won the US Open 9-ball or the Challenge of Champions, which are both contested in the US and which offer the two biggest paydays in our sport when it is contested in America has a pretty good memory. The switch to 10-ball hasn't solved anything, either, as few of us will forget the total domination of the Fillipinos this past May in Vegas, with Orcullo, Bustamante, and Pagulayan sweeping the medals convincingly, not to mention Busamante's flattening of the field in the 10-ball event at Derby City.
The biggest problem is that if the ABP takes steps that lead to diminshed participation of the best internationals, it will water down the US Open field, and why would Barry Behrman put up as much money as in the past for a watered down product?
Appleton, Souquet, Orcullo, Bustamante, Pagulayan and Van Boening are the ones I like to watch best. American pool players not named Shane have become a fairly minor part of the US Open 9-ball show, and an even smaller part of the world pool stage when it comes to rotational games.
The search for a way for Amercian pool pros to make money without reemerging as a global force in pool continues. Wouldn't it be a better idea to just practice hard enough to regain the international competitive excellence that most of us on the forum believe to be attainable?
.... sad times for pool in America.
Guess US players not named Shane are tired of missing out on all the biggest titles in the world of pool. Anyone who can remember the last time an American won the US Open 9-ball or the Challenge of Champions, which are both contested in the US and which offer the two biggest paydays in our sport when it is contested in America has a pretty good memory. The switch to 10-ball hasn't solved anything, either, as few of us will forget the total domination of the Fillipinos this past May in Vegas, with Orcullo, Bustamante, and Pagulayan sweeping the medals convincingly, not to mention Busamante's flattening of the field in the 10-ball event at Derby City.
The biggest problem is that if the ABP takes steps that lead to diminshed participation of the best internationals, it will water down the US Open field, and why would Barry Behrman put up as much money as in the past for a watered down product?
Appleton, Souquet, Orcullo, Bustamante, Pagulayan and Van Boening are the ones I like to watch best. American pool players not named Shane have become a fairly minor part of the US Open 9-ball show, and an even smaller part of the world pool stage when it comes to rotational games.
The search for a way for Amercian pool pros to make money without reemerging as a global force in pool continues. Wouldn't it be a better idea to just practice hard enough to regain the international competitive excellence that most of us on the forum believe to be attainable?
.... sad times for pool in America.
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Gee, Doug, you see what you started? :grin-square:
The twists and turns of this thread are beginning to chap my rear end.
Gee, Doug, you see what you started? :grin-square:
The twists and turns of this thread are beginning to chap my rear end.
Really I wouldn't think that someone who twists and turns threads all the time and thinks it's funny would mind that at all. LOL
I get it, it's do as I say, not as I do!!! Ah, please forgive my injustice, oh forum Queen, I know not what I do, as I am but a mere minion.
But as what I had to say about the BCA was off topic, I started a new thread, wouldn't want you to get chapped over it.:grin:
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Oh, it's not your posts that are chapping my rear end. So I can't give you any credit for that.
That said, this one's for you ---> HERE
Isnt all he does is love and play pool? Where is ez-e when ya need 'im?