"All Around" Player without One Pocket?

jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When you think of an "all-around" pool player, one name clearly stands out from the rest...Efren Reyes. 8ball, 9ball, straight pool, one pocket, banks, rotation...you name it.

But who comes after him in terms of "overall" ability? The problem with many of the other pool greats of today is that although they may be highly skilled and very accomplished 9ball, 8ball, and straight pool players, very few of them have made any significant impact at all in the world of one-pocket.

For example, take the German greats such as Ortmann (his recent win inspiresd this thread), Hohmann, and Souquet. All are formidable in 14.1, 8ball, and 9ball champions. But have any of them made a dent at all in the game of one-pocket? I know that Hohmann had a very respectable 7th-place showing at this year's DCC one pocket event, but that's all that I've heard about these monsters concerning one pocket. Granted one pocket isn't an extremely popular game in Europe, but should that count against them?

Same thing can be said about Archer, Manalo, and Orcullo. All have made a significant impact in all the major games except for one pocket.

So the question I pose is if a player can truly be regarded as a great "all around player" without having any distinction at all as a one pocket player? Can you leave one pocket out when you talk about overall pool ability? If not, who do you think is next on the list after Efren?
 
I think Shannon, when he was playing more, would have taken that title...oh and he did at the 2001 DCC. You can leave 1P in when talking about him.

In 2007, I'm not so sure who would take the title.
EDIT: I've thought about this a bit...and if Alex would put down the cards and pick up his cue again I would vote for him. He is a strong 9/10 ball player, is a major threat in 1P, gave Schmidt all he could handle in 14.1. I've not seen him play 8-ball, but there is no reason to believe his 8-ball game is weak. He was ranked #11 on the IPT.

BTW, the DCC all around titlists are as follows:

2007: Efren Reyes
2006: Jason Miller
2005: Efren Reyes
2004: Efren Reyes
2003: Larry Nevel
2002: Jose Parica
2001: Shannon Daulton
2000: Dee Adkins
1999: Efren Reyes

Alex's portfolio:

2007 Tournament Results:
$750.00 5th place Stan James Canadian 9-Ball Tour Stop
$4,000.00 3rd place Predator World 10-Ball Championship
$600.00 9th place Seminole Florida Pro Tour Stop
$12,000.00 1st place World Summit of Pool $3,500.00 3rd place Guinness 9-Ball Tour Stop

2006 Tournament Results:
$3,400.00 3rd place Derby City One Pocket Division
$510.00 13th place Derby City Bank Division
$2,100.00 5th place Derby City 9-Ball Division
$2,000.00 3rd place Derby City Master Of The Table
$500.00 7th place Stan James Canadian 9-Ball Tour Stop
$6,000.00 2nd place SML Entertainment Open 9-Ball Championship
$10,000.00 2nd place World Pool Masters
$30,000.00 7th place IPT North American Open Championship
$34,365.00 14th place IPT World Open 8-Ball Championship
$1,000.00 65th place World Pool Championship

2005 Tournament Results:
$18,000.00 Winner Derby City Classic Ring 10-Ball
$310.00 20th place Derby City Classic Bank Division
$950.00 8th place Derby City Classic One Pocket
$352.00 38th place Derby City Classic 9-Ball
$3,712.00 2nd place All Filipino Billiards Open
$10,000.00 1st place SML Entertainment 9-Ball Championship
$2,500.00 17th place 2005 World Pool Championship
$5,000.00 3rd place World Pool Masters
$40,000.00 1st place 2005 US Open

2004 Tournament Results:
$2,400.00 5th place UPA Pro Tour Championship
$2,850.00 4th place Derby City Classic 9-Ball Division
$583.00 14th place Derby City Classic One Pocket Division
$100.00 62nd place Derby City Classic Bank Pool Division
$4,800.00 3rd place BCA Open 9-Ball Championships Mens Division
$750.00 13th place Joss NE 9-Ball Tour Stop
$3,200.00 3rd place Reno Open
$75,000.00 1st place World Pool Championship
$10,000.00 2nd place On Cue 3: Continental Conquest
$1,500.00 9th place World Pool Masters
$500.00 49th place US Open 9-Ball Championships
$5,000.00 3rd place World 8-Ball Championships
$1,500.00 5th place Sudden Death 7-Ball
$10,000.00 2nd place World Pool League
 
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jsp said:
When you think of an "all-around" pool player, one name clearly stands out from the rest...Efren Reyes. 8ball, 9ball, straight pool, one pocket, banks, rotation...you name it.

But who comes after him in terms of "overall" ability? The problem with many of the other pool greats of today is that although they may be highly skilled and very accomplished 9ball, 8ball, and straight pool players, very few of them have made any significant impact at all in the world of one-pocket.

For example, take the German greats such as Ortmann (his recent win inspiresd this thread), Hohmann, and Souquet. All are formidable in 14.1, 8ball, and 9ball champions. But have any of them made a dent at all in the game of one-pocket? I know that Hohmann had a very respectable 7th-place showing at this year's DCC one pocket event, but that's all that I've heard about these monsters concerning one pocket. Granted one pocket isn't an extremely popular game in Europe, but should that count against them?

Same thing can be said about Archer, Manalo, and Orcullo. All have made a significant impact in all the major games except for one pocket.

So the question I pose is if a player can truly be regarded as a great "all around player" without having any distinction at all as a one pocket player? Can you leave one pocket out when you talk about overall pool ability? If not, who do you think is next on the list after Efren?
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jsp,
Nick Varner has won back-to-back (the only player EVER) U.S. Open 9 Ball Championships in 1989-1990. the World 9 Ball Championship in 1982, 1989 and 1999, the 1986 World 14.1 Championship, the 2000 World 1 Pocket Championship, the 1980 & 1994 World 8 Ball Championship plus the 1999 Derby City Classic 9 Ball Banks Championship, which is considered a World Bank Pool Championship. So he has World Championships in 5 different pool disciplines. Nobody (not even Reyes) has done that.

Other players who have won World Championships in more than one discipline include Allen Hopkins (9 ball, 14.1 1 Pocket), Mike Sigel (9 ball, 14.1 and 1 Pocket), Earl Strickland (9 Ball & 8 Ball), Oliver Ortmann (9 Ball & 14.1), Reyes (9 Ball, 8 Ball, 1 Pocket), Buddy Hall (9 Ball & 1 Pocket),
Jim Rempe (9 Ball, 1 Pocket & 8 Ball) Recently, Chi Ching Wu has won the World 9 Ball & World 8 Ball Championships when he was 16 & 17 years old.

In previous generations, Luther Lassiter, Ed Kelly, Steve Mizerak and Ray Martin have all won world championships in 2 or more disciplines.
 
When he's playing, Mark Tadd is liable to beat anyone (including Efren) at any game. If you havent seen Mark play, you are really missing out. JMO.

Southpaw
 
If your asking about players of the recent past and not just today, and if were talking: straight pool, 9 ball, one pocket, 8 ball and banks.....Since the aforementioned (in the last post) Shannon Daulton isn't/wasn't a straight pool player, and for that matter Efren is not a straight pool player either.....and since a lot of the champions didn't play all games - for example champions like Jose Parica and Buddy Hall aren't straight pool champions, and most straight pool champions weren't bank or one pocket champions....I think I have to nominate Nick Varner as the best all-around player of the last 30 years.....He was a stone cold champion in all of those games.

ps, After I posted this, I noticed that Terry Ardeno beat me to it about Nick - just wanted to acknowledge that, Terry...............Ghost
 
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In my day, the label of great All Around player went to someone who could play high speed 9-Ball, One Pocket and Straight Pool. That covers a lot of territory.

And back then players like Steve Mizerak, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe and Allen Hopkins were top speed at all these games. Going by the results of the last World Straight Pool in New York, the only name that jumps out at me with this kind of proficiency at all three games is Danny Harriman. Who in that field would like to play a "round robin" match with Danny? I'll bet on Danny if they do.
 
I don't think there is any question the answer is Nick Varner when it comes to asking what pro player truely has an all around game. However, in this case I think the question was being asked about players we would deem still currently in their "prime". In that case the question becomes much harder to answer, but I think Corey probably deserves a little bit of consideration.
 
jay helfert said:
the only name that jumps out at me with this kind of proficiency at all three games is Danny Harriman. Who in that field would like to play a "round robin" match with Danny? I'll bet on Danny if they do.
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In the 3 games you mentioned, Harriman is the nuts. But, if you would switch the 14.1 for banks, I'll take Shannon Daulton. I think his 1 pocket proficiency would win out over Danny's. In fact, I think Shannon is the better banker of the two. What do you think JaY?
 
Terry Ardeno said:
In the 3 games you mentioned, Harriman is the nuts. But, if you would switch the 14.1 for banks, I'll take Shannon Daulton. I think his 1 pocket proficiency would win out over Danny's. In fact, I think Shannon is the better banker of the two. What do you think JaY?
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It's close. Danny banks goooood too.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
I don't think there is any question the answer is Nick Varner when it comes to asking what pro player truely has an all around game. However, in this case I think the question was being asked about players we would deem still currently in their "prime". In that case the question becomes much harder to answer, but I think Corey probably deserves a little bit of consideration.
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Corey Duel most certainly has all the talent in the world. I personally think he is the 2nd most "creative" player, behind, of course, The Magician.
Deuel's problem with getting much mention in this thread is that the one best way to gauge or tell who's who among the many greats of today is major championships won. Corey has the 2001 U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship but no other world championships, unless you count Sudden Death 7 Ball. He's never won a division at the Derby City although he plays all games very strong. Corey's forte is gambling. He's one of the very best in the world for the $.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Corey Duel most certainly has all the talent in the world. I personally think he is the 2nd most "creative" player, behind, of course, The Magician.
Deuel's problem with getting much mention in this thread is that the one best way to gauge or tell who's who among the many greats of today is major championships won. Corey has the 2001 U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship but no other world championships, unless you count Sudden Death 7 Ball. He's never won a division at the Derby City although he plays all games very strong. Corey's forte is gambling. He's one of the very best in the world for the $.
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Touche, I knew that but didn't really think of it that way, but what you say makes sense.
 
jsp said:
Can you leave one pocket out when you talk about overall pool ability? If not, who do you think is next on the list after Efren?
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Seems like many of you are focusing on the second question rather than the first, which is more what I wanted to focus on.

Can you regard Hohmann and Souquet (for example) true all around players, even if they haven't made a dent in the one pocket world?
 
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jsp said:
Can you regard Hohmann and Souquet (for example) true all around players, even if they haven't made a dent in the one pocket world?
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To use the term "all around" and leave out the aspects of 1 pocket and banking, sort of diminishes the meaning of the term "all around". When I think of "all around", I think of Reyes, Varner, Hopkins.


Souquet, based on his accomplishments in 9 ball, 14.1 and 8 ball, I would say yes, but on a lesser scale than the aforementioned trio.
He enters the Derby City One Pocket and Banks divisions, so he at least knows his way around those two disciplines as well.

Hohmann already has two World Championships in two disciplines, so he's obviously a great player. To say "all around" though, I want to say that at this stage, of the two players you mentioned, Souquet is the better all around player.
Hohmann, I think, would admit to not being as all around as he would someday like to be.
 
I think it is all a matter of personal opinion. I think many Europeans might not consider many of our "all around players" to be very "all around" at all
because they aren't proficient at billiard games or snooker. Hohmann for example is one of the best balkline players in the world, and most US players wouldn't even know how to play balkline. When I speak of people locally, I consider 1-pocket proficiency a must to be called an "all around" player, but maybe I'm partial because it's my favorite game.
 
I agree with you Jay. Next to Efren Reyes, Danny Harriman is the best all around player out there today.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Hohmann already has two World Championships in two disciplines, so he's obviously a great player.
I think he holds more world titles that that. Are you perhaps leaving out his world titles in 3 cushion and balkline? Or do those not count because the tables don't have pockets?
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desert1pocket said:
Terry Ardeno said:
Hohmann already has two World Championships in two disciplines, so he's obviously a great player.
I think he holds more world titles that that. Are you perhaps leaving out his world titles in 3 cushion and balkline? Or do those not count because the tables don't have pockets?
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Hohmann has world titles in Three Cushions? News to me.
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desert1pocket said:
Hohmann for example is one of the best balkline players in the world, and most US players wouldn't even know how to play balkline.
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Hi, Hohmann is definitely one of the most talented players we have today. However, you might be thinking him as another balkline player?

I too think Danny Harriman is a great all around player. He is learning 3-Cushion now and I believe he can be shooting 0.700 right now.
 
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jsp said:
Seems like many of you are focusing on the second question rather than the first, which is more what I wanted to focus on.

Can you regard Hohmann and Souquet (for example) true all around players, even if they haven't made a dent in the one pocket world?
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The short answer is no.
 
desert1pocket said:
Terry Ardeno said:
Hohmann already has two World Championships in two disciplines, so he's obviously a great player.
I think he holds more world titles that that. Are you perhaps leaving out his world titles in 3 cushion and balkline? Or do those not count because the tables don't have pockets?
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desert1pocket,

You are right when you include 3 cushion billiard skills as criteria for 'all around playing." Unfortunately, the only thing I know about 3 cushion is that it's played with 4 cushions.:eek:

I did not know that Hohmann has a World Championship in 3 cushion billiards. What year did he win that?

BTW, to change the "all around" ability to include 3 cushion as well, Efren still holds up real well, as does Leonardo Andam, who not only is very good at 9 ball, but he plays snooker real well also. Steve Davis (snooker & 9 ball) and don't forget about the late great Larry "Boston Shorty" Johnson.
The only problem with this group is they don't have world championships in all these disciplines like those mentioned earlier in this thread do.
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