APA league etiquette...to hell in a handbasket???

Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
I grew up frequenting poolhalls. I'm talking about REAL poolhalls. The kind with nothing but pool tables. No video games, no jukebox, often not even a bar. I learned what we call "poolhall etiquette" in these places. It was mostly quiet except for the continuous sound of the balls clacking together. When we were in our chairs (opponents at the table) we sat still and quiet. When our opponent missed a shot or left himself in bad shape we got up and shot without any fanfare. When we won, we shook our opponents hand with very little outward emotion save a few grins and maybe a quietly spoken "alright" or two.

What I've been experiencing more and more lately (mostly in APA league play; seldom ever in a tournament) is the outlandish (IMO) theatricals of opposing teams. They hoot and holler at the conclusion of a won game. They cheer and high-five at the end of a won match as if their local pro football team has just scored the go-ahead touchdown in the waning seconds of an NFL game. I'm not just talking about the player here, I'm talking about the whole team. And I'm talking LOUD! I've even had a few teams whoop-it-up on occasion whenever we miss shots (yes, I know the APA has rules against this, and they were told. One time the whooping actually got worse AND louder after they were warned).

What I'm wondering here is, am I a dinosaur??? I mean, has poolhall etiquette changed over the years to where this is acceptable behaviour and I just haven't caught up to the "new" way yet? Don't get me wrong, I believe a fair amout of celebrating is in order after a won game and again after a won match. But it is so loud and obnoxious as compared to the way I came up in the pool world. I never act this way nor do any of my teammates.

Who else has experienced this kind of behaviour and how do you feel about it? Does this happen in your league? Am I right to feel like I do about it or do I need to move on and "get with the program"???

I respect any criticisms and all opinions.

Maniac
 
I know exactly what you mean. I don't play league pool so I can't say for sure, but I wonder if some of it has to do with the nature of team play. Growing up there were no leagues and as a consequence no team play to speak of.

But I seem to notice the same phenomenon in the Mosconi Cup as well as team play in other normally individual sports, such as the Ryder Cup in golf.

Of course, in a pool league you are also adding alcohol to the equation. :wink:
 
I have noticed that there is generally a direct correlation between a players skill & their pool etiquette.

Keep in mind that the APA is billed as a "FUN" league with alot of players that are new to pool & have not learned proper etiquette yet
 
I have definately seen this kind of behavior, especially in APA events. I think it shows a definate lack of respect for both the game, and your opponent that has no place in any sport. I am only 23, but growing up playing golf I have understood the importance of etiquette for some time now... About 3 sessions ago, the team I *WAS* on was playing at our local COC event. The guy I was playing is a good friend of mine and we are 4 - 4, both on the hill. I broke and came up dry and he was running the rack pretty easily. Meanwhile I hear my teammates sharking him, whispering scratch, scratch, scratch... Sure enough he scratched on the 8 and my team went berserk, jumping around and screaming, and tried to run over and celebrate. I went over and shook my friends hand, apologized for my teams actions, and then went over to my team. That was embarrassing... Whats worse is that I had to explain to a group of 25 - 40 year olds the difference between cheering for your teammate, and cheering against his opponent. I dont mind havin fun, drinkin or whatever but sharking somebody in APA is a little juvenile...
All things said, I dont think pool hall etiquette is lost, you just arent going to find amongst the majority of APA players... IMHO
 
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Ditto!

The behavior you have described is JUST ONE of the reasons I no longer play APA pool. I had the unfortunate luck to be in a league that had one team that was so far over the top it was incredible. They would all scream after every made shot with no respect or regard for any other players in the league. Speaking to the league operator did no good whatsoever. I can clearly remember how much I disliked their behavior and lack of respect. Too much for me!!! Good thread BTW!!
Dan
 
i think that we as humans are seeing a general loss of etiquette in all aspects of life, whether talking about a receiver in the nfl doing some ridiculous dance or a mlb ballplayer hotdogging around the bases after a home run or the totally outrageous stunts tiger woods has brung to golf. you never saw Jack or Arnie chasing a ball into the cup pointing his finger like some kind of idiot the way Mr woods does. then you add as mentioned a large number of people who are new to pool and all they have to base their actions on are what they have seen our so called sports "heroes" do on tv on saturday or sunday and there you have it. a group of people who have very little respect for the game or their opponent. as an APA team captain i sometimes have to remind my own players of what is right and acceptable.

just my own humble opinion

Mike
 
i guess count me in the dinosaur group too. i can even remember when you waved to someone you passed on the road just because. i was also taught to help up the guy you just planted in football, not stand around and dance or celebrate.
 
I was going to quote everyone on this but that would have been a bit overkill...I agree with all of you..

I don't think I'm a dinosaur just yet...38 y/o....AND I grew up in Philly...a town reputably known for poor sportsmanship...and I think behavior like what's been mentioned is horrible.

I've recently introduced my wife and my 10 year old daughter to the game and I make sure, beyond question, that they understand the reverence and respect I have for the game and my competitors. No talking when your opponent is shooting...this is mainly at the house when we're just playing around...they'll stop mid-sentence once the hand hits the cloth...when my wife and I are out, she only plays bar box 8 ball while having some drinks, but she knows don't move when the other person is shooting...no fist pumps, don't stand in the shot line...you all know the rest.

I take it as my responsibility to make sure that they understand what's acceptable behavior....I figure I do the best I can to effect/change what I can and attribute others antics to not having someone like me around. :):)
 
I have seen the behavior that you are referring to, but to me, it seems more like the "social" teams are the ones who hoot and holler the most, especially at regular league play. It happens a lot more at play-offs, Vegas, etc. I don't see it as a bad thing....nothing wrong with being enthusiastic. I do NOT agree with cheering for an opponent to make a mistake, etc, however. You almost never see seasoned pool players carry on that way.

As for breaches in pool etiquette, I guess I grew up in the wrong era and the wrong geography. I have seen pool matches end in fist-fights, cues broken over heads, beer muggs smashed into heads, knife fights, and have even seen a gun pulled...thankfully, I did not see it used, but I do know of an occasion or two where they were.

Anytime you mix egos, gambling, alcohol (or other "stimulants), and women, you have a recipe for disaster. Comparatively speaking, I much prefer to have the hooting and hollering.

Joe
 
There is very little etiquette in apa. Most people in it have no concept whatsoever of how to behave because their first experience in pool was in apa. I'm not at all surprised to see a thread like this.
 
Bamacues said:
As for breaches in pool etiquette, I guess I grew up in the wrong era and the wrong geography. I have seen pool matches end in fist-fights, cues broken over heads, beer muggs smashed into heads, knife fights, and have even seen a gun pulled...
Click to expand...

Joe your's is another post that I can't disagree with. A ton of us had a simalar "mispent youth"....I've personally been in 4/5 of the situations you've listed and NONE of them were pool related (never had a beer mug smashed on me)...I've also seen 2/5 related directly to a pool game.

Being enthusiastic is a good thing....I completely agree...I think teaching or expressing "reverence" for the game and it's tradition is something that anyone that grabs a cue should learn first.

As I read back, I think we're arguing the same side of a coin so I'll stop right here. :)
 
Heres a story...

First let me say the div. I play(ed) in is sad sad sad if you play good your a a-hole (just for being good, if you play bad your a sandbagger, its so sick.

Now for the story...Were playing at home (on 9fters only place team that plays on them that makes us a-holes of course) my team throws me (Im a 8), oh sorry were playing 9 ball, the other team throws their 5 so its like a 65-32 race or somthng like that. mind you this guyhates me hes probably never beat me as a matter of fact just a few weeks 2or 3 befor this I knocked their team out of the play offs playing a mild swerve shot around his safe on the 8for the match (playing 8 ball that time). Were already got a birth in citys in 8 and 9 ball so I could careles aboutthis match so here we go. He gets the best of the first few racks the scoreis 19-12 him have no doubt their team is loving it they cant stop looking at the score sheet, Well somthing happened and it was not good for them the end score of the match was 65-21 in the next 6 racks he made 3 balls, holly crap was he pissed. as hes racking the 5th rack the 1 ball rolls out I looked at it and asked if he could get the ball touching, he tries once or twice then looks up and says "thats as good as your gonna get it" (its a 1/4 inch away from the stack) he's so pissed and I'm doing nothing but playing ok (not talking to him, rubbing it in, anything like that), I just started laughing and said "Im not gonna break untill its touching" he grugenly racks again mumbleing "it doesnt matter anyway". Of course when its over there is no hand shake, no dang you sure caught a gear, nothing, Im justa bigger jerk for playing outside myself for some reason those few racks. Had that been down at the pool room people would have been lined up watching saying things like, damn Shorts is shooting the lights out today, or no ring games for you mister. But not at good old APA league night its f*ck you hurray for me, it is so sad they dont even know what the game is about.
 
Finally a good APA thread, let's see how long it lasts before it goes south,lol. I never quit APA because of the sandbagging, it was more because of the UNSPORTMANLIKE conduct. I remember one team used to cheer, curse and scream when there dude(sl4) would beat our female(sl3) and it made her feel like dirt. We would always silently fist bump to congratulate one another for a win and always wish the opposing team good luck for next week whether or not if we won or lost that night. I think everyones posts on this thread are great.:grin: Ron
 
What you are describing is acceptable Barroom behavior. The APA is a Berroom league. If you want to be a host location you must serve alcohol.

Team played individual sports all suffer the team cheering the player. In my league area we don't have the problems you describe, and while I was at nationals this year the loud cheering teams were definitely a minority.

I captain a team and don't have this problem with my players or any team playing in my division really.

:cool:
 
I see this behavior as well and don't mind it all that much because I look at some of the people in the league and you can tell they probably have not won anything in the lives so if they get excited about a win so be it. What I really don't like is when someone on my team hits the ball and someone on the other team yells for the cue ball to get in the hole or a "go 8" (early 8 ball for the lose).

I captain a team as well and my pool room etiquette has rubbed off on them and hopefully they will pass it on as well!
 
Thank God our team doesn't do that , we may say good match after the game but nevery whooping and being loud .

One thing that gets to my oppenents is that I will never say a word when I'm at the table , to me I'm just shooting my game and focused , but I guess that I must really get into there head by doing that , because they can think of many things but I just stay silent till my shot or next time around to the table .

I had one person that asked me why I was so serious about this game and my reply is that I love this game and I want to win that's why .
 
of dinosaurs, pool etiquette, and the APA

Like some of you, I learned the game in true pool halls, where you were lucky if you could buy a drink or some microwaveable snacks from the front counter, or at a vending machine in the lobby, and maybe there was a jukebox somewhere playing music at a level that was loud enough to be heard but not loud enough to be irritating and affect the players at the tables. I learned that every player is entitled to respect, and that respect is shown by being silent during his turn, by your attitude and behavior at the table and away from it, and by the professional way you carried yourself while you were at the pool hall. You didn't try to shark your opponent, you didn't stand in his sightline during a shot, and you gave him plenty of room on his backswing so you didn't interrupt his shot. You shook his hand at the end of the match, you were civil during the game, and you saved all the conversations and jawing between turns, before the game, or after it.

The APA is not held in what I would consider a "true pool hall," and I think "true pool halls" are a dying breed. Nowadays, you have loud music, TVs all over the place, people talking in loud voices, and general behavior that wasn't usually present at "true pool halls." What you have nowadays are "pool bars," where APA thrives. Back in the early 90s, there was a movement to "yupscale" pool halls to give them a more refined, more upscale feel and look, to attract a more diverse and more "hip" clientele. While it reflected the growing popularity of pool, it attracted people who had no understanding of the "old school" etiquette of pool to the sport revered and loved by the "oldtimers". Today's pool bars reflect that attitude. There are few of us left who understand the proper behavior one must show at a pool table during a game.

The APA has been and always will be an amateur league. It attracts a lot of newcomers to the pool bars, where they learn from other non-oldtimers what is now considered "proper behavior" at league nights, but is really just a reflection of the lack of proper sportsmanship and the general self-entitlement the younger generations feels. Mutual respect is few and far between. It's become nothing but a clash of egos and oneupmanship. The mutual respect is still around, but you will only find it with the oldtimers (the "dinosaurs") who play, who lose and win graciously, who try to play their best game and don't sandbag, who congratulate their opponents and wish them luck, and who generally go out of their way to act civil and appropriate.

I understand that in a team situation, when there is a lot on the line (a championship berth, a playoff spot, or a shot at Vegas), excitement can run high, and teams can go a bit overboard in their celebrations, but this should be the EXCEPTION, not the rule. Appropriate behavior should be the norm, and it should be enforced. It's up to us dinosaurs to bring a level of decorum and civility back to the sport we grew up respecting.

When it comes to pool, I'm a dinosaur... but I'm proud of it.
 
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