ATTENTION- ABP News : ABP Guidelines & Format for Sanctioned Events

Maniac said:
Tap, tap, tap!!!


IMO, I cannot understand what the fuss is all about. Pool doesn't need fixing. There's nothing wrong with the game. Participation worldwide is well into the MILLIONS. People just need to quit thinking that there HAS to be money made as the reason for playing. I literally see hundreds of league/local tournament players weekly that not only couldn't name 5 pro players, they couldn't give a rat's ass if there even was a pro tour. I mean, why the hell don't the very best Croquet players or the very best Badmitton players make any money for what they do? The answer is in JAM's above quote. Same as pool, no mainstream interest, and getting worse yearly (with young people having many more avenues of interest).

Let's just shoot pool and have fun and accept it for what it is, a game, and not a mainstream, major sport.

You can always gamble on it anyways. Two people throwin' down on one another epitomizes a true sport, imo. I have always thought a tennis match is the true test of two persons abilities. A pool gambling match would be similar to a tennis match. There is how money should be made in pool, and I'm not even a gambler. Poolplayers paydays from funds of outside sources is a lo-o-o-o-ng way away (at least on a consistent basis) is the way I see it.

Maniac
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I have to ask if thats is how you feel why do you care about the people who want to do something with pro pool? I mean I could care less about the people whose only goal in life is to go to a bar and bang balls one night a week. I dont post in threads about league rule disputes saying "I dont care about leagues....they dont matter...blah blah blah"

I guess I'm saying I dont get posting an opinion that is basically saying your opinion is to just quit.
 
Maniac said:
Tap, tap, tap!!!


IMO, I cannot understand what the fuss is all about. Pool doesn't need fixing. There's nothing wrong with the game. Participation worldwide is well into the MILLIONS. People just need to quit thinking that there HAS to be money made as the reason for playing. I literally see hundreds of league/local tournament players weekly that not only couldn't name 5 pro players, they couldn't give a rat's ass if there even was a pro tour. I mean, why the hell don't the very best Croquet players or the very best Badmitton players make any money for what they do? The answer is in JAM's above quote. Same as pool, no mainstream interest, and getting worse yearly (with young people having many more avenues of interest).

Let's just shoot pool and have fun and accept it for what it is, a game, and not a mainstream, major sport.

You can always gamble on it anyways. Two people throwin' down on one another epitomizes a true sport, imo. I have always thought a tennis match is the true test of two persons abilities. A pool gambling match would be similar to a tennis match. There is how money should be made in pool, and I'm not even a gambler. Poolplayers paydays from funds of outside sources is a lo-o-o-o-ng way away (at least on a consistent basis) is the way I see it.

Maniac
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Why don't you toss these thoughts towards the Asian and Phillipine pool forums and see if they feel this way about the game. I'm sure you'll get a few responses, and don't forget the guys over the pond on the 6X12's, let them also know your thoughts on these little round objects, you may enjoy the responses you recieve.
 
sunnyday said:
Wow... 10 pages of thread with 142 replies and not a "Boo" from ABP...

S.G.
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They're probably having a meeting of the "minds" to figure out what to say next.

How many ABP members does it take to change a lightbulb?
 
Where is the dialog from ABP

Moderaors have you, cut off the ABP?

Or are they not simply responding?

I thought is a forum.
Not a place where they can advertise /spill their propaganda?

Thanks, Barney
 
sunnyday said:
Wow... 10 pages of thread with 142 replies and not a "Boo" from ABP...

S.G.
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Hi Sunny, hope you're well.

Can't speak for ABP here, but a few things are obvious by inference:

1) ABP is not posting here to solicit input from pool's powerbrokers or patrons. Last time they joined in the online discussion, they suffered a major publicity hit and lost some credibility.

2) ABP is not joining in the discussion because their demands are not, at this point, negotiable. I am surprised that you are surprised by their absence in this thread, LOL. Their participaton, to me, would be far more shocking.

3) ABP is not defending itself because its position is indefensible. The mapping out of pool's future must be done by all who have a significant stake in the sport's future.
 
JCIN said:
D C 6 Pocket said:
After so many years of beating this dead ass horse into tiny little atom sized particles I gotta say that these types of out of touch responses really tilt me. Its like a little kid saying "Well if I just get everyone in the country to send me a dollar I'll be rich" and they are positive they have come up with an original and ground breaking idea that everyone else was too dumb to think of.
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Good point. Every time this discussion comes up someone puts forth the idea that somehow recreational pool players should "donate" to a pro tour like it's a charity of some kind. Recreational players shouldn't do anything of the kind as pro pool players are not owed a living by recreational players. If league players have to donate to pro pool to fund a tour then they are the ones who should own that tour and reap the profits if there are any. And I don't mean the league operators or league owners - I mean the players doing the donating.

Now I'm not slamming efforts such as CSI's USAPL. I particularly note that CSI started a new organization to accomplish something like this rather than slam a new fee down the throats of the members of their existing league if they want to continue to participate. You join the USAPL partly because they are trying to establish a pro fund and you are aware of this up front.

You got a $1 to donate somewhere? Well, this month is breast cancer awareness month. Send a buck to the Susan G. Komen foundation.

But pro pool is not a charity and I cringe every time someone suggests that recreational players should donate money just that a 100 or so good pool players can make a living. Maybe the ABP should do an annual telethon. Perhaps league players would be willing to man the phones because I wonder how many pro players would donate their time.
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JCIN said:
It reminds me of a conversation I had with Greg Sullivan about a wild idea for a pro tour. Basically you take sixteen guys, four pool tables, go around the country and play tournaments. The prize fund is what the players draw on the gate, sponsors and the streaming ppv after expenses. Eat what you kill. You draw a $5000 gate you are eating beans, draw $50,000 and you are going Sizzler. End of the season top eight stay and the bottom eight have to re-qualify along with anyone else who wants a spot on the tour. No more pesky promoters or rules to live by. Players org owns the the whole thing.
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That is actually a REALLY good idea and one of the best, if not THE best that I have heard to start a proper professional tour.

With 4 tables the travel would be cheap, the professional org could initially take it upon themselves to transport, set up, and tear down the equipment. In the beginning of the tour they would all need to do ALOT of promotion, work hard to get whatever sponsorship they could manage to cover costs, try to get radio interviews, put up posters in the areas where theater and musical posters tend to advertise, do some small exhibition types of events in malls and the like along with the advertisements of the actual tournament all around to get the general public that walks by to take notice.

Something like that, starting small with 16 players would be as low of a risk as any professional tour could manage to be in it's infancy. If successful, if they started getting a following of fans and support from sponsors it would be VERY easy to slowly grow the tour from 16 players to 24 or even 32 players in the future. Card holding players having most of the spots and perhaps having a couple spots that can be won in qualifiers for local talents to build the local interest in seeing the event in person.

As it stands right now the ABP is dreaming if they think they can get ranking systems, seeding, and rules to become uniform in a world without a professional tour under a single banner. You actually need a proper tour to have what the ABP is asking for, and for what it is worth I would actually like to see a proper tour doing pretty much exactly what the ABP is asking for, but it does not exist, and if anyone could create it then that group is the ABP themselves.
 
Celtic said:
That is actually a REALLY good idea and one of the best, if not THE best that I have heard to start a proper professional tour.


You actually need a proper tour to have what the ABP is asking for, and for what it is worth I would actually like to see a proper tour doing pretty much exactly what the ABP is asking for, but it does not exist, and if anyone could create it then that group is the ABP themselves.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the ABP a players group, players and not business people. Mark Griffin, has staff that don't play for a living, but work for a living and play. It would take this effort to Try and pull if off, with No guarantee, but allot of hard work and it still might not be successful. You need an organizational plan, a good marketing arm and a few number crunchers and payroll and Money, and still it could fail for Many reasons, and lack of effort may not even be in the picture.
 
JCIN said:
.I dont post in threads about league rule disputes saying "I dont care about leagues....they dont matter...blah blah blah"

I guess I'm saying I dont get posting an opinion that is basically saying your opinion is to just quit.
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Yeah, quit expecting money from SOMEONE elses pockets. And you Justin, can post ANY opinion in ANY thread on this site you want to last time I checked. Are we ALL supposed to think exactly like you???

Sorry for having an opinion...........NOT!!!

Maniac
 
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Island Drive said:
Why don't you toss these thoughts towards the Asian and Phillipine pool forums and see if they feel this way about the game. I'm sure you'll get a few responses, and don't forget the guys over the pond on the 6X12's, let them also know your thoughts on these little round objects, you may enjoy the responses you recieve.
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I don't care if they hear my thoughts and their opinions simply mean nothing to me.

I've got a table at home, there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of tables within 30 minutes of my house, with PLENTY of people to compete against. I don't need "professioal" pool, and neither do millions of other people. Professional sports as a whole could just vanish into thin air as far as I'm concerned.

It's okay for some people to NOT think as others do. I'm sure there are plenty of people in this world that think like me, and plenty that think like you, and plenty that think like Justin, and so on....and so on.....

Maniac
 
In all reality, currently the only thing that any of the ABP members contribute to any tournament is thier entry fees. And it seems they're making demands that they really have no business making. Hmm... sounds like a player telling the tournament director how to run his tournament.

Anybody want to take a guess what the TD is going to tell that player ?

Bottom line, the ABP needs to get off thier high horses, sit down with promoters and tournament directors, and find out what's really possible.
 
JCIN said:
Yeah....and if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass. All that sounds great. I'll tell you what, you go find me $10,000,000 I'll give you an international pro tour, a reality tv show pilot to go with it and a functioning players union.

How on earth are you supposed to come up with that kind of money ?

I guess the same way you expect someone else to do it.
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Sponsors outside pool is the only way to go in my opinion. Pepsi made the start with the US Open. Let's hope more will come along the way (an organized pro tour would help in this). Snooker was sponsored by the tobacco industry until Britain banned all tobacco advertising. Several tournaments were lost but big time sponsors (who didn't sell lung cancer :ignore:) remained and snooker is still popular and gets TV time.

And I am sorry for not being the CEO of Shell. Otherwise I would sponsor the sport right away.
 
sjm said:
Hi Sunny, hope you're well.

Can't speak for ABP here, but a few things are obvious by inference:

1) ABP is not posting here to solicit input from pool's powerbrokers or patrons. Last time they joined in the online discussion, they suffered a major publicity hit and lost some credibility.

2) ABP is not joining in the discussion because their demands are not, at this point, negotiable. I am surprised that you are surprised by their absence in this thread, LOL. Their participaton, to me, would be far more shocking.

3) ABP is not defending itself because its position is indefensible. The mapping out of pool's future must be done by all who have a significant stake in the sport's future.
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I read this like you think these reasons are OK. Take out the word "ABP" and put in the name of any other major organization, and someone reading this would think it is the sh*ttiest organization ever created. WTF is the point?
 
MahnaMahna said:
I read this like you think these reasons are OK. Take out the word "ABP" and put in the name of any other major organization, and someone reading this would think it is the sh*ttiest organization ever created. WTF is the point?
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Respectfully, you need to reread what I've written. By calling their position "indefensible" I made it crystal clear that I do not think these reasons are OK. All I'm saying is that given their release and the subsequent evidence that their guidelines were established without the input or counsel of other key parties in the sport, the reasons for their continuing silence are easily deduced.

Then again, you are absolutely right in observing that in the world of legitimate business, those who conduct themselves in this manner do not earn much respect for doing so.
 
JimmyWhite said:
Sponsors outside pool is the only way to go in my opinion. Pepsi made the start with the US Open. Let's hope more will come along the way (an organized pro tour would help in this). Snooker was sponsored by the tobacco industry until Britain banned all tobacco advertising. Several tournaments were lost but big time sponsors (who didn't sell lung cancer :ignore:) remained and snooker is still popular and gets TV time.

And I am sorry for not being the CEO of Shell. Otherwise I would sponsor the sport right away.
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Thanks for your contributions to the thread *and* to the forum. Keep posting. I enjoy reading your words, and thank you for sharing. It is nice to get other perspectives on such a controversial topic. :smile:
 
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