Bad Problem with John Showman, (Cue Stolen)

[edep12]

Screw litigation. I must say, if he had my 7k cue with all that transpired and make good chances given it would have been time for a good ole 'shop drop in' long ago.

GL Mike.

-Kat

Yep. I think I would fly in, head straight to the Sheriff's office, show them the email traffic and explain the situation, and ask them to accompany me to Showman's shop (if they decided it was a civil matter or were too lazy to make the trip, I might pick up a 21 oz house cue on my way to "trade" him when I got there), and if it wasn't resolved to my satisfaction let him know my next stop was going to be at the courthouse and then - go file suit.

Heck, you can probably have the cops make a trip over with a phone call. Might scare him into knowing that you had progressed past the email stage.

 

[TATE]

I've lost my patience and am determined to get my cue back, and make no mistake about it, I will get my cue back.

John and I have had a cordial relationship over the years. He has sent me (free, at his expense) old cue parts he thought would interest me, photos, etc. I am also aware of others, including a dear friend, who have paid deposits and have gotten burned.

All of this is very depressing. I am pretty sure he's fallen into such a deep hole, he can't get out on his own. I don't know when good intentions became overextension, then complete failure, but it was a while ago.

Fact is, these kind of threads often do result in getting your cue back. Not long ago, one did for me. John, if you're reading this, if nothing else, won't you at least just send Mike back his cue? That is one thing you can do.

 

[c and c]

................................ disgusting whats happened here

 

[Worst_7_ever]

John and I have had a cordial relationship over the years. He has sent me (free, at is expense) old cue parts he thought would interest me, photos, etc. I am also aware of others, including a dear friend, who have paid deposits and have gotten burned.

All of this is very depressing. I am pretty sure he's fallen into such a deep hole, he can't get out on his own. I don't know when good intentions became overextension, then complete failure, but it was a while ago.

Fact is, these kind of threads often do result in getting your cue back. Not long ago, one did for me. John, if you're reading this, if nothing else, won't you at least just send Mike back his cue? That is one thing you can do.

Green rep coming your way sir.:thumbup:

 

[Quality Cues]

Has anyone who knows him personally reached out to this scumbag? I mean I don't see how its possible for someone he knows personally hasn't read this thread. Usually the guys with all the excuses come in public and rehashes said excuses.Sometimes there true, some times not, but they are almost always willing to post about it. Esp when they rely on the pool world to make a living. So, which one of his buddies is gonna speak up?

I sent Showman an email with a link to this thread moments after I posted it. About 27 hours after this thread was posted, Showman sent me an email saying he was going to check out this thread. I looked at his personal profile and he was on AZ about 25.5 hours after this thread went live. So, I have every reason to believe that he has read this thread and knows full well that he is getting hammered beyond belief here. He surely deserves it and a whole lot more. His behavior is inexcusable. He knows no shame. The only question is: will Big John finally do the right thing and complete the project and ship my cue back or ship my cue back in whatever condition it is in together with a $700 USPS money order?????

 

[Moet.1977]

Showman

Let's not forget that by Showman's email of 4/7/15 in response to my certified demand letter of 4/7/15, Showman admitted that "Theres no excuse for not being done yet." That was six months ago, so anyone who wants to conjure up excuses, you are wasting your time and the excuses will fall on deaf ears.

Please keep posting to this thread. I for one am going to do everything I can to keep this thread on page 1.

As good a cue maker that John is this and the money he could be getting for his cues I think there's only two conclusions. One he's very ill and in some kind of bad dark depression and just having trouble completing his daily tasks. Him and his wife think that if they hold out and make only a couple of cues a year that he will drive up the market and get more for what he does produce when he returns to his shop. None of this excuses his behavior but it may help explain it. It seems the only reasonable explanation for this behavior. I hope you get your cue back Mike.

He also could be sending his cues overseas to private collectors . He has to be producing something to pay his bills.

 

[Cezar Morales]

I sent Showman an email with a link to this thread moments after I posted it. About 27 hours after this thread was posted, Showman sent me an email saying he was going to check out this thread. I looked at his personal profile and he was on AZ about 25.5 hours after this thread went live. So, I have every reason to believe that he has read this thread and knows full well that he is getting hammered beyond belief here. He surely deserves it and a whole lot more. His behavior is inexcusable. He knows no shame. The only question is: will Big John finally do the right thing and complete the project and ship my cue back or ship my cue back in whatever condition it is in together with a $700 USPS money order?????

Hey buddy, i really sympathize with your situation and it's clearly proven that he does not have any right to hold on to your cue or ur money.
However i do have some friendly advice for ya which may help you to look at the big picture.
You started a thread warning ppl of his unethical business practice which has generated over 2500 views and he's aware like you said and has not done anything to EVEN REMEDY THE SITUATION , LIKE WtF and what human being even does that ! Which makes it pretty obvious that he doesn't GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HIS REPUTATION ANYMORE !
So clearly the chances which you have given him has long expired and he doesnt look like he's going to make any efforts to return both your property which brings a BIG QUESTION to my mind, does he even have possesion of your cue or has he sold it off to an unsuspecting buyer ?
At this stage of this mess , i think you may wanna move on n consider making a trip down to his shop
( preferably with a good ol american baseball bat , uncorked !! )to " politely " find out wtf is going on with him and also consider whatever legal options against him to get ya shit back , it's a $7000 cue !!

Just my 2 cents and good luck in getting your baby back !

Cuemakers like this should seriously be boycotted or banned from the cuemaking biz to prevent other cuemakers from making a dishonest livehood !!

 

[RBC]

As good a cue maker that John is this and the money he could be getting for his cues I think there's only two conclusions. One he's very ill and in some kind of bad dark depression and just having trouble completing his daily tasks. Him and his wife think that if they hold out and make only a couple of cues a year that he will drive up the market and get more for what he does produce when he returns to his shop. None of this excuses his behavior but it may help explain it. It seems the only reasonable explanation for this behavior. I hope you get your cue back Mike.

He also could be sending his cues overseas to private collectors . He has to be producing something to pay his bills.

Doesn't he already have a waiting list several years long? If he does, and he's taken sizable deposits on all those orders, then he doesn't see much income until those orders are completed or he starts to get more new orders.

If you think about it, the only money he could be making is the remaining balance on cues that he finishes and delivers, or deposits on new orders. If he's not getting any new orders because of the long wait list and bad publicity, then that portion of his income is gone, and the only income he can look forward to is what's left.

The way I look at it, the only chance he has is to double his production. Build 2/3rds of it for existing orders, and the other 1/3 should be spec cues that he can sell for additional income. He should not take any new orders until he can see the end of the tunnel, and then he should not take any kind of a sizable deposit.


Just my thoughts. I hope it all works out for all of those involved.


Royce

 

[JCIN]

For all of you nut huggers for TAR, I have included them in part of the responsibility as they made a "featured cue maker" DVD about how great John Showman was/is.

While he wont admit it, they knew about Showman and his "practices".

What pi$$ed me off is, John had my money, and I was waiting on my cue, and the TAR nitwits get a free SHOWMAN cue ahead of me.

I guess I wont be getting that stupid Christmas card either.

Ken

I made that video in 2009. It was an interview and shop visit with John. It was a video about a top cuemaker. Just like I did with Ernie.

Since you ordered a cue I guess you figured he made good cues too.

The cue John did with the TAR logo on it was one a guy had ordered and John made then the guy backed out is what I was told. It was a plain cue with four points, no rings, no veneers and made with Bocote. Not something he ordinarily does. So he put the TAR logo on it and offered that I could sell it and everything over a certain a price I could keep to help TAR. That way he moves a cue that didnt get bought and he helps Chad and I out at the same time. John got the vast majority of the sale price and we got some extra bucks as well as some buzz from the sale.

Its not like he handed me a cue and said "I was gonna build one for a customer but did this instead". It was a one off situation that he could of easily made a phone call in private and gotten more money with no one ever hearing about it but he tried to help us out knowing some people would give him shit for it without knowing the details. Special people like you Ken.

Also that DVD has not been available for sale for about five years. So yeah Ken I'm out there just shilling for John as hard as I can you turd burglar.

John is a friend. I haven't talked to him in months though so I don't know whats going on with him now. I hope he squares away the OP and does everything he can to fix the situation because he is 100% wrong here. There is no excuse for what has happened to Mike. I will try and call John and urge him to return the cue.

 

[sureman183]

Bad Problem with John Showman

Gian, your post was great. I've had many cue makers over the years make promises & never keep them. one a Hall of Famer approx. 13 yrs now & waiting, couple of others, extreme wait also. I even had a dealer take a cue from me which wasn't part of our deal. same guy dropped a custom joint cap [burl & ivory] into a side pocket & walked away. I had to pay to have Diamond remove it. dishonesty will always come back to bite you later. getting off track [sorry] Mike, I hope John does the right thing, & returns your cue. regards, don "the SURMANATER" aka Sure Man Cues

 

[cashin]

I'm glad someone finally had the balls to call out these overpriced cue makers here where it matters. Everyone is always taking up for the cue makers in cases like these and sucking up in hopes of getting brownie points with the maker. I've been lied to so many times that I don't even bother to order new custom cues any more and I've been buying custom cues all the way back to when you could order a new Szamboti for $200.00.. so I'm no novice. I still own a few high dollar safe queens that I would sell in a minute if I could get the purchase price that I paid back. I've also dealt with Mike before and we NEVER had a problem one in doing what we had agreed upon.. so I know he's telling the truth. As a matter of fact I had a chance to buy the cue in question all the way back when it was auctioned off on Ebay for under 2000.00. That cue has made it's rounds believe me. I played with that very cue back when Lou Spiers aka ( Cuedoctor) owned it but I digress . I hope you get the cue back soon Mike. I know how you feel.

Best Regards, Dave

You're not doubting his story? You should consider yourself extremely lucky. Your transaction with JS is the exception to the rule. Quite the aberration. The OP's is much more typical. JS is NEVER on time. He is ALWAYS lying. The fact he hasn't returned a $7000 cue is criminal. Charges should be filed. Until guys like this understand and experience real consequences for their actions, this will continue to happen.

 

[9Ballr]

I'm constantly amazed when I read threads like this. Top name cue makers who don't seem at all concerned with their reputations. I feel fortunate to have only dealt with Pete Tascarella (he told me one year and it was almost one year to the day!), Keith Josey (all work done in a timely fashion), Proficient Billiards (great work at a bargain price), Capone cues, Jacoby cues, Omega Billiards, Tiger Products, Joe Blackburn and more that I'm forgetting who only treated me right and in a professional manner. There are a lot of good people in this business. Too bad the other ones spoil it for everyone.

I recently got a Nitti and it was nothing but pleasure dealing with him.
Did everything as promised and delivered a few months earlier than he estimated.

Same thing goes for Keith Josey. I got a cue from him and it was nothing but a
fantastic experience from the first email to the phone calls to the delivery.

Maybe we should start a thread of makers that are the gentlemen of the cue world.
But that would be too long as I think people like the OP's guy are the 1% ers.

 

[cashin]

Mike, I've also heard in the past that a cue maker damages a cue while working on it. He drops it or something worse. This could also be what has happened and JS doesn't want to build another just like it or pay you what it could be sold for on the secondary market.

Yes, of course I'm concerned that Showman might not even be in possession of my cue. All I can tell you is that he has represented to me for months that he has been working on the cue and was close to finishing the project. In fact, by an email sent on 9/22/15, Showman represented that he was going to ship the cue back to me the week beginning Monday, 9/21/15. But, as my post makes clear, Showman has repeatedly lied to me and cannot be trusted.

 

[cashin]

It's a pool cue . You don't need a Showman to play good pool . Just ask Shane. People buy these cues to impress or to flip for a profit. I've done it so I know. Some of the best cues I've ever played with have been inexpensive or moderately priced cues and you don't have to freak out if it gets a ding or scratch on it and start worrying about your precious investment cue.

In theory. But where there's money to be made, items like this will always be in demand by the rest that can afford them who do want them. Just bcause YOU won't buy has no relevance unfortunately. There are many artists and craftsman through history whose actions during life have been suspect but their wares were/are so exceptional that "shun" never materializes. This is prabably going to be the case here. I guess we'll have to see how it plays out to be sure but IMO there will be no decrease...

 

[mel_smOg]

that sucks////

 

[Johnny Banjo]

Good luck getting your cue. Hopefully going to court won't just add to your frustrations. Hopefully Showman is mentally & physically o.k. What a shame . Best of luck to you !

 

[mia]

My guess is showman sales will be tougher to move for a profit at least not kind of coins one would hope for! especially when no newer cues coming out of the shop and next none in past 5 years!

So what your saying is... a guy who builds some of the most coveted and well-crafted cues out there (according to collectors) will see a decrease in value as they become more and more rare?

First I've heard of that but hey! Could be.

 

[nick serdula]

Mr Mike,

Best of luck.
Nick

 

[William]

I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that Showman will never post to this thread.

First, John not finishing the cue is wrong and I'm sure John agrees 110%. Secondly, how large of a bet would you care to take?

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Sorry about the cue man and hope you get it back.

Perhaps AZB should create a sticky for deadbeat traders rather than having to rely on these threads that may get deleted.