BCA Open team from TAIWAN disqualified?

BCAPL Taiwan

Hi Duane,

The issue isn't that a player has a great tourney. The issue is that a player is in a division that is below their abilities. And the issue was complicated by being from a foreign country and they language barrier.

Under normal circumstances, those factors won't be present.

All leagues have the ability to DQ any player for any number of reasons. We have not abused that in the past and certainly don't plan on it in the future.

Mark Griffin


Duane Tuula said:
Glad to hear there is a final resolution and information posted.

I see two looming issues:

- if an open player has one great tourney and destroys the field does that player run the risk of being dq'd after the fact and not paid in full?

- with the miscommunication, should those Taiwan players have been in the Advanced divsion? Looks like they could have pocketed $7,200 for a 1/2 finish which surely is possible based on reports of ability. Isn't that an opportunity cost that is not taken into account??
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BrooklynJay said:
I wanted to wait until I saw the official letter from Mark concerning the situation before posting and asking questions. Maybe it was answered previously and, if so, I apologize.

Why were they the players not disqualified earlier?

Why did CSI choose to do something about it this year?

The reason I ask is because I remember there being a similiar situation a few years back where the Portugese team had an unfair advantage as they didn't have to create teams from just one league but were able to create all-star teams based on the entire country. (If I remember correctly they finished 1st in teams, first in men's singles, and finished highly in several other events as well.) There was no disqualifications given even with numerous complaints filed. So why are the taiwanese being singled out?

Why you hate Asians Mark? :grin:
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Hmm.. what I heard was the Taiwan players won first and 2nd in the open and was supposed to be awarded 18G's+ between the both of them but was only paid $5500.

BCA/CSI acted very unprofessional.
 
TheDC said:
Hmm.. what I heard was the Taiwan players won first and 2nd in the open and was supposed to be awarded 18G's+ between the both of them but was only paid $5500.

BCA/CSI acted very unprofessional.
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What I really was curious about was...

Where did the rest of the money go? CSI pocketed it?
 
I applaud and appreciate the decision that was made! It's a tough business with the loudest, most unappreciative people as the main customers.

A language barrier is a tough thing to overcome thousands of miles apart, and I can only commend the leg work that had to be done very quickly (2-3 days) to determine the eligibility and speed of these players. And this is most likely the reason they were not DQ'd sooner than the final day.

The only piece that I don't agree with is that we only selected the 2 players to be DQ's and not their 3rd member who finished 17th place and ruined the dream for many a player, even on the final board. (Sorry, but it's personal for me as I was going to win the open! And now I'll never get that opportunity again.)
 
JCIN said:
For the life of me I do not understand why anyone has anything to do with leagues. From playing in them to running them. It seems everyone involved is pissed off about something.
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Let me answer with a story. I went to play golf and got paired with these 3 guys who were friends of each other. One guy got pissed every time he didn't hit a shot perfectly, which at his skill level was almost never. I mean violently pissed, using all kinds of profanity including the "C" word for gosh sake, throwing a club in a pond, pounding the ground, breaking one over his knee.

Towards the end of the round as this guy was throwing a tantrum in a bunker, I went up to one of his friends and said, "Why does your friend even play this game? He certainly doesn't seem to be having fun." The guy looked at me, smiled, and said, "It relaxes him."
 
klockdoc said:
The Taiwanese people got the raw end of this deal. The BCAPL dropped the ball and now are trying squirm out of it by offering a ridiculous settlement to them to cover up for their errors. Errors that they were presented with before this whole ordeal happened.
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Thats rich when followed by a response to someone else stating...

klokdoc said:
All I can say to this, is that if you feel that Mark is doing a undesirable job at what he is doing....make him an reasonable offer for his company...maybe he will abide you and sell.

Then you can run it the way you think may be beneficial to all.
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Just what is your point and stance on this whole thing? Simply want to be part of the arguement, you really don't care which side?
 
TheDC said:
What I really was curious about was...

Where did the rest of the money go? CSI pocketed it?
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Really? mark G explained that in this very thread. If you are going to post an accusation like that FFS at least read the whole thread because it is explained in detail in this exact freaking thread.

Post 225, read it, then admit your blunder and say sorry.
 
Mark Griffin said:
The notifications and checks have all been sent by email and/or US mail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2012 BCAPL National Championships Player Disqualifications

The following is an outline of the background and final disposition regarding the disqualification of two players from the 8-Ball Men’s Open Singles division of the 2012 BCAPL National Championships: Wayne Huang and Sean Cheng.

Both players attended the championships from their native country, Taiwan. The primary reason for the disqualifications was a miscommunication between the League Operator for the two players and the CueSports International (CSI) office. Much of the miscommunication was due to the language barrier.

In the 2011 championships, players from Taiwan were required to play in the Advanced Singles division. However, through a series of miscommunications between the League Operator and CSI, a few new players from Taiwan were allowed to enter the Open Singles division of the 2012 championships.

The Tournament Qualification Committee determined that Wayne Huang and Sean Cheng did not belong in the Open Singles division, and disqualification of their finishing positions was required.

CSI felt some responsibility in the miscommunications with the League Operator in Taiwan, and recognized that the disqualified players had incurred significant expenses in traveling from Taiwan. That, plus the realization that the two disqualified players spoke no English and may not have been personally culpable in being placed in the wrong division, caused the Tournament Qualification Committee to reimburse $5,500 of the disqualified players’ expenses.

The 1st and 2nd place prize money was $11,000 and $7,000. 30% was reimbursed to the players to cover expenses. That leaves $12,500 to be distributed on a pro rata basis to the other players on the finals board who were defeated by the disqualified players. Checks for the amounts below were distributed in addition to prize money already won.

$7,700 was distributed to the players defeated by Wayne Huang as follows:

3rd Ken Lee $3,575
4th Luke Thomas $2,720
13th-16th Ron Allen $ 790
33rd-48th Michael Allen $ 360
49th-64th Danny Lee $ 270


$4,800 was distributed to the players defeated by Sean Cheng as follows:

3rd Ken Lee $1,460
4th Luke Thomas $1,110
5th-6th Blaine Barcus $ 820
7th-8th Glen Collins $ 610
9th-12th Roman Bayda $ 440
17th-24th Brad Hughes $ 265
49th-64th Robert Frost $ 115

The records will not show a 1st or 2nd place finisher for 2012. Advancing the other players in a double elimination format breaks down very quickly: 5th-6th cannot be advanced to 3rd-4th, 9th-12th cannot be advanced to 7th-8th, 17th-24th cannot be advanced to 13th-16th, etc.

CSI regrets that disqualifications were required, but recognizes that the integrity of the Open division must be protected.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Respectfully,

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
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For those too lazy to go back a few pages to read this:

Mark, you guys at CSI were definitely in a tight spot. I think you were more than generous to the losing players. It was a really tough call.
 
Celtic said:
Thats rich when followed by a response to someone else stating...



Just what is your point and stance on this whole thing? Simply want to be part of the arguement, you really don't care which side?
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Reading comprehension problem?

The first is a response to the actions taken against players (one item)....the other is a response to you regarding Mark's ability to proper manage the entire corporation.
 
klockdoc said:
Reading comprehension problem?

the other is a response to you regarding Mark's ability to proper manage the entire corporation.
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Yeah that is where you are the one with a reading comprehension problem. Alot of people not actually reading the thread today...

Celtic said:
I have commended the BCAPL on numerous occasions on this very forum, I am a fan of the league, but on this situation they messed up
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Celtic said:
As a closing note I will say that I am happy the BCAPL is sending the money to cover the expenses to the Taiwan players and find that to be a decision to be reasonably balanced all things considered. This solution to the issue was not even close to the worst that could have been decided and I am actually fairly OK with it all things considered.
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So where is this whole attack on his "ability to proper manage the entire corporation"? If you are going to try the whole reading comprehension arguement then you should perhaps try reading the thing yourself. Your comment...

klokdoc said:
The BCAPL dropped the ball and now are trying squirm out of it by offering a ridiculous settlement to them to cover up for their errors. Errors that they were presented with before this whole ordeal happened.
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is every bit as attacking on the BCAPL as anything I said in this thread and that is why I found it tremendously two faced for you to go posting that reply to my post that you did. You seemed to miss my point in why I quoted those two consecutive quotes from yourself, how is that glass house you live in doing these days? A little drafty?
 
Celtic said:
Yeah that is where you are the one with a reading comprehension problem. Alot of people not actually reading the thread today...





So where is this whole attack on his "ability to proper manage the entire corporation"? If you are going to try the whole reading comprehension arguement then you should perhaps try reading the thing yourself. Your comment...



is every bit as attacking on the BCAPL as anything I said in this thread and that is why I found it tremendously two faced for you to go posting that reply to my post that you did. You seemed to miss my point in why I quoted those two consecutive quotes from yourself, how is that glass house you live in doing these days? A little drafty?
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You didn't post this?

Wasn't Mark's, Scott's and Watchez responses good enough for you? You might want to go back and review them.

And on the Taiwanese....you fall into that category of Paul Harvey's famous saying. ;) However, you will never know, "The rest of the story".

Celtic said:
Keep in mind, it is the BCAPL league members, the people that play in your leagues, who enter your tournaments, who plug your tables, who stay in and gamble in the hotel/casinos that give you the convention space that make the BCAPL exist and prosper. They are the ones paying to make the BCAPL nationals exist, they pay the prize fund, when they ask that you explain a decision and give an explanation on how the tournament that "they" paid to make happen I am not sure they are out of line. Your whole "if someone feels the need to know" attitude might be misplaced, I think the people who paid to make the event happen and who not only support but actually ARE the BCAPL have a RIGHT to know about decisions made in the tournament they made happen.

There is well over $100,000 in entry fees into the BCAPL singles paid by the players in that event and those players plugged tens of thousands of dollars into the tables on top of that entry to play in the event. They actually deserve an explanation, they paid for the event and without them there is no BCAPL.

{edit} I see you finally made the statement. I don't quite agree with the solution but at least you did not totally stiff the players. Still think the BCAPL dropped the ball in the extreme letting the entire tournament play out the way you did, very poorly done and I would suggest being more "pro"-active rather then "retro"-active next time on things like this.
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klockdoc said:
You didn't post this?

Wasn't Mark's, Scott's and Watchez responses good enough for you? You might want to go back and review them.

And on the Taiwanese....you fall into that category of Paul Harvey's famous saying. ;) However, you will never know, "The rest of the story".
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Why don't you enlighten all of us with the rest of the story?

Or don't. Just keep posting vague ambiguous posts about no one on the planet knowing what REALLY went down except you.

That will help things considerably.
 
JCIN said:
Why don't you enlighten all of us with the rest of the story?

Or don't. Just keep posting vague ambiguous posts about no one on the planet knowing what REALLY went down except you.

That will help things considerably.
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You are good friends with Mark. Talk with him and maybe he will enlighten you to the whole ordeal....start to finish. My email to him pretty well explains it all.

Oh, and just because YOU do not know what happened, doesn't mean that no one else doesn't either.
 
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klockdoc said:
You are good friends with Mark. Talk with him and maybe he will enlighten you to the whole ordeal....start to finish. My email to him pretty well explains it all.

Oh, and just because YOU do not know what happened, doesn't mean that no one else doesn't either.
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Odds are he knows a lot more about what happened than you do...

Just sayin' (just guessing...)
 
Sounds like the league op for that Taiwan league is either dishonest or inexperienced at rating players.

I know where I play there is a player on the ratings comity who wont let players of known ability slip into a lower division even for regional tourneys.Every regional event there is some "known" player who thinks he can play in the open B because he has never gone to a BCA event.At regionals the open divisions are much larger then the masters because people want to play in the easiest division that they are allowed to.So many people playing in the lowest possible division can actually make that bracket harder to win then a higher bracket.
 
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