BCALeague, Mark Griffin & Professional Pool Players

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Everyone has their opinions and I've got mine and I want to share mine with all of you and I hope you will share this with the professional pool players in your respective towns.

Mark Griffin and I are not close friends. We have no financial relationship.

I've been in business for myself for the last 25 years and I've only had two real jobs in my life. I've been around and been involved with many successful business people. I remain involved with business people who are successful and so I recognize those individuals who separate themselves from the rest of the pack.

Mark Griffin is one of those people. He not only exudes "success" but he is extremely successful in practically every business enterprise he participates in.

These individuals like Mark can sometimes be perceived as opinionated and sometimes say things that appear to be so extravagant that their off the cuff comments can be mistaken for not caring. In Mark's case, nothing could be further from the truth. Mark Griffin cares more about pool and leaving a legacy behind than he does making more money. He has been successful making money everywhere he's been. Some people are like that. My boss had the Midas touch. Some people simply know how to make money. Mark has already succeeded at that and now he wants to leave a legacy behind. What is so great is that he wants to do it for pool.

The UPA has been a dismal failure as far as I can see. It has done nothing to help the professional pool players.

Now here's the main thing for pros and amateurs alike to think about. Mark Griffin has a STRONG FOUNDATION, not just his past success in successful business enterprises but the BCALeague, 60,000 strong.

What I hear on the street is I hear players going back to the BCA in droves. League players are tired of playing pool all year and going to a national tournament at great expense, only to find out that most of them are going to come back with a large credit card bill that they will have to pay off. The BCA League is strong and is getting stronger. It is the foundation for this plan that Mark is developing.

Does he have strong ideas in his vision? If I were a professional pool player, I would hope so. It is readily apparent to me that professional pool players do not have the ability to operate a successful business enterprise. Mark Griffin does.

Mark Griffin recently stepped in to help professional pool players out of a terrible situation. The UPA SANCTIONED a professional pool tournament in Arizona and the deal went very bad resulting in most of the players not getting paid. The UPA could do nothing to help them out. Sanctioning didn't mean squat. They don't have a bank account to cover those kind of losses and say that their organization isn't able to guarantee any purses at this time. Mark Griffin stepped up to the plate and helped resolve the money owed to the players.

Many of you may not know that Mark Griffin helped promote the recent very successful Predator 10 Ball tournament and let me tell you, he helped in a very big $$$$$way. He doesn't get credit for all of the things that he has done for pool and I believe he wants to build a legacy for himself.

I'll say it once again: Mark Griffin has the foundation for success. The professional pool players had better take their head out of the sand and follow Mark's strong leadership. He has THE FOUNDATION FOR SUCCESS. Very few people love pool more than Mark Griffin. You can see it and you can feel it when you talk to him. You may resent his strong leadership qualities but if the professional pool players ever want a chance to have a decent life, they had better show up NOW and support Mark.

If I were a professional pool player, I would drop every affiliation that I have and support IN whatever Mark does, however he does it.

If I were a professional pool player, I would hope that Mark would be open to my ideas about what we think we need. I can guarantee he is open-minded in spite of any strong language that he may render from time to time. Strong leaders use strong language. Strong leaders are successful and those that follow his leadership will benefit the most.

If any professional pool player doesn't become part of this plan UP FRONT, he should be strongly penalized. In fact, any professional pool player that doesn't support Mark out of the gate is FOOLISH and simply doesn't see the opportunity.

There have been others who have tried to make men's professional pool successful and they have ALL FAILED.

Mark Griffin has the foundation for success and he's willing to put it on the line as well as his reputation which is unblemished.

Every professional pool player should be on the telephone calling Mark and letting him know that he has their complete support.

Shame on ANY professional pool player who doesn't get behind this man from the very beginning.

This is a open door and it is open today for all professional pool players to get enter. I can assure you that it will be harder to get in the door at a future date, regardless of who you are. After all, any player that doesn't support Mark's effort right now is depriving their fellow professional pool players of that needed support and that means money out of your fellow professional pool player's pocket.

If any professional pool players sit back and make demands for this and that, the window may soon be closed for good, so I hope for their sake that they will do the smart thing and get involved NOW.

Joey Aguzin
 
Last edited:
Ok...but what's your point???

JUST KIDDING. Great post! My only amendment would be that I think the pros need to be...and certainly will be...given more information about what they would be asked to sign onto.

Other than that, I can think of no single person who could...and who damn well MIGHT be the catalyst for major improvement in men's pro touring pool.

MJ is doing GREAT good things for the sport but the prize money available just simply isn't enough to be considered "major league"...and I am NOT referring to major league QUALITY...just the prize money.

Best wishes to ALL honest and caring tournament promoters!!

(But DAMN...I narrowed the hell out of the field with THAT comment!!!)

(-:

Jim
 
I'm a little confused

Joey,

I have to admit I am a little confused. I see what seems to be an intelligent and reasonable Mark Griffin in his posts and I see posts from others that were there that seem to indicate otherwise. Pro pool doesn't need a cult leader, just had one of those. The kool-aid didn't kill the players but it did kill pro pool in the US.

Hopefully the real Mark Griffin is a man that will listen to the pro players, respecting them and their opinions, and then still be the one calling the shots after weighing their input. I make no bones about having a widely varied background as a competitor. I have been in more associations and organizations than I can remember. One season alone I was a member of NASCAR, MASCAR, AllStars, STARS, CARS, four or five more groups, plus ran outlaw unsanctioned races where I had to have a track license. My credentials weighed half as much as I did! I have been in over a dozen more competition groups in other sports over the years.

As a general statement competitors as a group are their own worst enemies! If they get control and get what they want they usually destroy the very thing they are trying to support and promote. There needs to be a strong man at the helm, and he needs to be motivated by more than just greed or thirst for power. He has to have the sincere desire to make things happen for the sport and equally importantly he has to have the power and resources to make good things happen. At a glance Mark Griffin seems to fill the bill here and equally importantly we aren't dealing with secret entities or sums of money that need to come basically out of thin air.

I'm long past my rah-rah for anything days but I think anyone that is interested in pro pool in the US is foolish if they don't pay close attention to what Mark Griffin is doing and be prepared to throw their support behind him as soon as he explains himself. I'm pretty hardnosed and I have been burned far too many times over the years to support anyone or anything more than tentatively until they lay their cards on the table. Hopes are high, but I wanna see more.

Hu
 
Take a deep bow, Joey, for what may be your single finest post as a member of this forum.

Pro pool players need to come to the realization that it's the man behind the venture, not the money behind the venture, that will save the day.

In December 2005, before the first IPT event was even played, I recall being rubbed the wrong way by posts suggestng that Kevin Trudeau's riches were the very guarantee that tournament players had always sought, and somewhat angrily, I posted the following:

sjm said:
The suggestion that a business venture is automatically backed by all the private assets of its proprietor(s) is false. It is sometimes true, as may be the case if a business is set up as a partnership or sole prorpietorship. If a business is set up as a corporation, and you may rest assured that the IPT is set up that way, the concept of limited liability is in play.

When a corporation defaults on its debts and files for bankruptcy, its creditors usually end up with just a fraction of the monies due them, as they have a claim on the net assets of the corporation, and not on the private assets of the corporation's proprietors.

The size of KT's bankbook is only relevant in that he may be more willing to take losses in the early stages of the venture without folding. Then again, THE BEST BUSINESSMEN ARE THE LEAST LIKELY TO STUBBORNLY PERSIST IN FUNDING PROJECTS THAT DO NOT APPEAR TO BE GENERATING THE KIND OF REVENUE THAT WILL COVER ALL COSTS.

KT has a vision and a business model and I'm hopeful and optimistic that his vision and his business model will stand the test of time. If not, he will not be as likely, but will be more likely, than a lesser businessman to pull the financial plug on this venture, which is not ...... backed by his personal assets.
Click to expand...

As importantly, Trudeau had no history of doing anything for pool and refused to tie the future of his organization to anything or anyone concerned about the general well-being of both amateur and pro pool. He lacked the track record, and he lacked the passion to be the man who would see to pool's future as a sport. As many pointed out before the IPT held it's first tournament, he also lacked integrity.

Mark Griffin is the anti-Trudeau. He has the track record of being a continual and passionate supporter and benefactor of pro pool. He has given to our sport in so many ways, and his recent actions only serve to remind us of his unswerving commitment to pro pool and its future. He is a man who understands that the future of pool is about both amateur and pro pool. He is a man with vision, passion, and integrity, a man in whom the players should trust.

Mark Griffin may not be the only man worthy of such trust, but he is a passionate, credible, long-term benefactor of our sport. To pro players, with due respect, all I can say is:

"Despite his appalling track record, Trudeau's credit was good enough for you. Mark Griffin has a far greater track record, so, perhaps you need to have a little faith rather than trying to financially strong arm him to the point that he might lose interest in this venture."

Joey A hit the nail on the head.
 
Last edited:
sjm said:
Take a deep bow, Joey, for what may be your single finest post as a member of this forum.

Pro pool players need to come to the realization that it's the man behind the venture, not the money behind the venture, that will save the day.

In December 2005, before the first IPT event was even played, I recall being rubbed the wrong way by posts suggestng that Kevin Trudeau's riches were the very guarantee that tournament players had always sought, and somewhat angrily, I posted the following:



As importantly, Trudeau had no history of doing anything for pool and refused to tie the future of his organization to anything or anyone concerned about the general well-being of both amateur and pro pool. He lacked the track record, and he lacked the passion to be the man who would see to pool's future as a sport. As many pointed out before the IPT held it's first tournament, he also lacked integrity.

Mark Griffin is the anti-Trudeau. He has the track record of being a continual and passionate supporter and benefactor of pro pool. He has given to our sport in so many ways, and his recent actions only serve to remind us of his unswerving commitment to pro pool and its future. He is a man who understands that the future of pool is about both amateur and pro pool. He is a man with vision, passion, and integrity, a man in whom the players should trust.

Mark Griffin may not be the only man worthy of such trust, but he is a passionate, credible, long-term benefactor of our sport. To pro players, with due respect, all I can say is:

"Despite his appalling track record, Trudeau's credit was good enough for you. Mark Griffin has a far greater track record, so, perhaps you need to have a little faith rather than trying to financially strong arm him to the point that he might lose interest in this venture."

Joey A hit the nail on the head.
Click to expand...

Tap Tap Tap to all the above. Stu, we are indeed fortunate when you offer your well thought out opinions on a topic. You were one of the few who pointed out the flaws in the IPT business model. Calling Mark Griffin the anti-Trudeau is brilliant. Thanks.
 
ShootingArts said:
Joey,

I have to admit I am a little confused. I see what seems to be an intelligent and reasonable Mark Griffin in his posts and I see posts from others that were there that seem to indicate otherwise. Pro pool doesn't need a cult leader, just had one of those. The kool-aid didn't kill the players but it did kill pro pool in the US.
I assure you that Mr. Griffin is not a "cult leader". To date there is one person that was at the meeting that has posted anything in a negative light. Keep in mind that this is not a person that knows Mr. Griffin very well (if at all) and coming from someone that was there and knows Mr. Griffin, that person is mistaken. They mistook passion in trying to get your point across as being unreasonable.

Hopefully the real Mark Griffin is a man that will listen to the pro players, respecting them and their opinions, and then still be the one calling the shots after weighing their input. I'm pretty hardnosed and I have been burned far too many times over the years to support anyone or anything more than tentatively until they lay their cards on the table. Hopes are high, but I wanna see more.

Hu
Click to expand...
Mr. Griffin does respect the players and he stated at the meeting that he would like for a collective group to come together and discuss their thoughts about things and then present them to him. If he had no respect for the players, he would not be doing this.

Anyone that doesn't know Mr. Griffin and that wasn't in the meeting should absolutely reserve judgment until more is revealed. Anyone that would give you a hard time for that isn't putting themselves in the shoes of those of you that don't know Mr. Griffin and that were there to hear things first hand.

I think once are more things are finalized and he rolls out more of his game plan, people will be pleased and more accepting of what good things are to come from supporting him.
 
Exactly where I am at

Exactly where I am at right now. I am watching with great hopes because this seems like a working deal with the right man at the helm. There was never any doubt in my mind that the IPT was a long shot. That was exactly what I told the backer of one of the best known players, play, but play every tournament like it was the last one because it might well be. I have to admit that even in my worst case scenario I didn't envision KT firing the largest air barrel in pool history though!

Mark is a coming from a completely different place. He understands pool and he is known in the pool world. He also has both feet planted firmly on the ground and doesn't seem to be committing to do more than he can or will deliver. Only forty years of hard knocks keeps me from jumping on the bandwagon now. I probably will soon, once a little more is known.

Hu




UrackmIcrackm said:
Mr. Griffin does respect the players and he stated at the meeting that he would like for a collective group to come together and discuss their thoughts about things and then present them to him. If he had no respect for the players, he would not be doing this.

Anyone that doesn't know Mr. Griffin and that wasn't in the meeting should absolutely reserve judgment until more is revealed. Anyone that would give you a hard time for that isn't putting themselves in the shoes of those of you that don't know Mr. Griffin and that were there to hear things first hand.

I think once are more things are finalized and he rolls out more of his game plan, people will be pleased and more accepting of what good things are to come from supporting him.
Click to expand...
 
DO NO HARM. First rule.

Speculation, concerns, doubts, negative comments should be kept to ourselves until, as Hu put it, the cards are on the table.

There is absolutely no sense in doing anything to spoil or taint the best chance pool has had in a long time... perhaps in the history of the game.

Mr.Griffin appears to be a guy that can get the job done.

Let's try to be hopeful and put positive energy out there thereby increasing the possibility that this thing grow and come to be what we've all wanted.
 
I enjoyed reading this thread and agree with much of its content, except one thing.

Again, I may stand in the minority, but I believe that it is extremely unfair to say that Kevin Trudeau had no passion for pool. The man invested over $10 million from the get-go. Yes, the IPT business model was flawed. Trudeau had no idea that pool sucked in the United States, the way it did then and the way it does today. The American mainstream media did not cover any of the historical record-breaking multi-million-dollar tournaments, but they sure did cover that first-place prize for the $20,000 hot dog eating cotest and the $20,000 first-place prize for the fastest lawn mower in the land. This it not the fault of the IPT. Rather, it's the mainstream American culture as a whole, and pool is not important today in the U.S. as a sport.

There's a lot of naysayers for the IPT, and there will continue to be. That is okay. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but ask one of the pro players, aspiring pros, or IPT cometitors who went to Orlando, Vegas, AND Reno, you will get quite a different opinion about Kevin Trudeau. Now come at me and bash away, but I refuse to sit back and read the words from non-IPT competitors who don't have a clue as to what the players actually did come away with from the IPT experience. Again, the business model was flawed, but the pro players I know feel quite different than the words expressed in this thread by non-IPT competitors and/or non-professional players.

Filipino Champion Francisco Bustamante told me that the $80,000 he won in Orlando for third place was the largest amount he's ever won in his life at one pool tournament. In fact, I can't forget the tears rolling down the faces of several BCA's Hall of Famers when they received a check for $30,000. One of them never won a game in his matches. The IPT and Kevin Trudeau recognized the contributions of these pool icons and wanted to pay tribute. They were more interested in having them there than having them win. As you all will remember, the BCA Hall of Famers got two byes in the tournament, starting at the third level, to include Efren Reyes, as if he needed it. LOL!

Now about Mark Griffin. This plan of Mark Griffin to accelerate professional pool to a higher quality has been in the making for a long time, I think. It was at least two or three years ago that I received several PMs from Mark Griffin with his proverbial hand out to help, along with his personal phone number, letting me know that it is his intention do make a change for the better in professional pool. At that time, the running of the BCA by the vendor subcontractor, the flawed ranking system, the "secret waiting list," and the hand-picked non-UPA players who attended rubbed me the wrong way, and I made my opinion known on this forum.

I know Mark Griffin is the real deal. He was back then, and he is today. We all must be patient and allow his mission to take its course. I'm definitely a supporter. :)

JAM
 
Last edited:
Great posts in this thread by Joey and Stu.

I had the opportunity to speak with Mark last night, and I support his efforts 1000%.

I believe that the professional players have finally got someone that is out for their best interests. Mark's intentions are genuine - and I encourage any player out there that believes otherwise to take the time to call him and listen to what he has to say.

Mark, I wish you all the best. If you need help with anything, don't hesitate to give me a call.
 
KT's real passion

JAM,

I remain convinced that KT's real passion was m-o-n-e-y ! No question that the man liked pool and likes it still. What had him excited was the thought that he could make pool take off like poker and make many millions off of the IPT. I truly believe that he meant the players no harm. However, he didn't lose a minute's sleep when he hung them out to dry either! The only reason he scratched out the payments to them at all was the fear of returning to prison.

Many people turned their lives upside down and are still dealing with the repercussions of taking KT's word that he had billions and put his personal fortune behind the IPT for the first few years. Also Mark and Mike both have much tougher rows to hoe now with players, venues, suppliers, sponsors, and networks with the specter of the IPT in everyone's minds.

The internet gambling law being passed killing the IPT is purest BS in my opinion. That might have had the last impact but what KT was banking on to begin with was major sponsors and network coverage. In my opinion the great con got conned himself with Mike Sigel leading him down the garden path of how great pool could be if they just rolled back the clock to Mike's glory years. Mike S may have believed it himself but Mike's dreams were just that and he sold them to KT. The IPT was fun while it lasted but it was never more than smoke and mirrors and the players never more than window dressing just like the fancy venues and big payouts. Pool is back in the real world now and is starting from a place further in the hole than it was before the IPT existed. A few players benefited, many players lost and pool itself lost.

Now pool has to start at a real world level. No billionaire sugar daddy that never really existed, no instant jump to glory, hopefully a much slower but real climb to success as at least a second tier sport like bowling. Right now I would be extremely happy to see fifty pro players making a living off of a US tour without having to gamble or have a day job to survive. I'm not against gambling or against day jobs or owning a business, however when a top level competitor has to rely on something else to survive the sport isn't worthy of being called a professional sport in my opinion.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
JAM,

I remain convinced that KT's real passion was m-o-n-e-y ! No question that the man liked pool and likes it still. What had him excited was the thought that he could make pool take off like poker and make many millions off of the IPT. I truly believe that he meant the players no harm. However, he didn't lose a minute's sleep when he hung them out to dry either! The only reason he scratched out the payments to them at all was the fear of returning to prison.

Many people turned their lives upside down and are still dealing with the repercussions of taking KT's word that he had billions and put his personal fortune behind the IPT for the first few years. Also Mark and Mike both have much tougher rows to hoe now with players, venues, suppliers, sponsors, and networks with the specter of the IPT in everyone's minds.

The internet gambling law being passed killing the IPT is purest BS in my opinion. That might have had the last impact but what KT was banking on to begin with was major sponsors and network coverage. In my opinion the great con got conned himself with Mike Sigel leading him down the garden path of how great pool could be if they just rolled back the clock to Mike's glory years. Mike S may have believed it himself but Mike's dreams were just that and he sold them to KT. The IPT was fun while it lasted but it was never more than smoke and mirrors and the players never more than window dressing just like the fancy venues and big payouts. Pool is back in the real world now and is starting from a place further in the hole than it was before the IPT existed. A few players benefited, many players lost and pool itself lost.

Now pool has to start at a real world level. No billionaire sugar daddy that never really existed, no instant jump to glory, hopefully a much slower but real climb to success as at least a second tier sport like bowling. Right now I would be extremely happy to see fifty pro players making a living off of a US tour without having to gamble or have a day job to survive. I'm not against gambling or against day jobs or owning a business, however when a top level competitor has to rely on something else to survive the sport isn't worthy of being called a professional sport in my opinion.

Hu
Click to expand...

Hu,

You nailed it here. The whole IPT fiasco in a nutshell. Pretty much the way I read it too. When Dumbo made me jump thru hoops to get a mere $5,500, I knew something was wrong. It didn't take long to find out either. After that episode I began telling all the players I knew, to get what you can while you can, because it could end any moment. And it did, rather abruptly.
 
ShootingArts said:
JAM,

I remain convinced that KT's real passion was m-o-n-e-y ! No question that the man liked pool and likes it still. What had him excited was the thought that he could make pool take off like poker and make many millions off of the IPT. I truly believe that he meant the players no harm. However, he didn't lose a minute's sleep when he hung them out to dry either! The only reason he scratched out the payments to them at all was the fear of returning to prison.

Many people turned their lives upside down and are still dealing with the repercussions of taking KT's word that he had billions and put his personal fortune behind the IPT for the first few years. Also Mark and Mike both have much tougher rows to hoe now with players, venues, suppliers, sponsors, and networks with the specter of the IPT in everyone's minds.

The internet gambling law being passed killing the IPT is purest BS in my opinion. That might have had the last impact but what KT was banking on to begin with was major sponsors and network coverage. In my opinion the great con got conned himself with Mike Sigel leading him down the garden path of how great pool could be if they just rolled back the clock to Mike's glory years. Mike S may have believed it himself but Mike's dreams were just that and he sold them to KT. The IPT was fun while it lasted but it was never more than smoke and mirrors and the players never more than window dressing just like the fancy venues and big payouts. Pool is back in the real world now and is starting from a place further in the hole than it was before the IPT existed. A few players benefited, many players lost and pool itself lost.

Now pool has to start at a real world level. No billionaire sugar daddy that never really existed, no instant jump to glory, hopefully a much slower but real climb to success as at least a second tier sport like bowling. Right now I would be extremely happy to see fifty pro players making a living off of a US tour without having to gamble or have a day job to survive. I'm not against gambling or against day jobs or owning a business, however when a top level competitor has to rely on something else to survive the sport isn't worthy of being called a professional sport in my opinion.

Hu
Click to expand...

Hu, this is one topic you and I will never agree on, and that is okay. I am well aware that I stand in the minority on the IPT and Kevin Trudeau saga on this forum.

What is revealing, though, is that the majority of opinions that come forth on this forum are not opinions by the IPT competitors who attended these events, experienced the green room, collected tens of thousands of dollars, put a down payment on a home with their IPT winnings.

You see, the IPT did a lot of good, Hu, and it gave some players a renewed sense of enthusiasm, self-esteem, and pride that they had not experienced in years. Ask Scotty Townsend or Dave Matlock what they think about the IPT. I can tell you what Keith McCready thinks about Kevin Trudeau and the IPT, and his opinion is quite the opposite of the negative ones expressed on this forum.

This thread ain't about the IPT, but it is my fault for expressing a minority opinion and geting the IPT controversial ball rolling again, but I couldn't read the same words written by those who had no personal interest in the IPT to compete as an aspiring pro or professional player.

Yes, the IPT failed, but nobody knows whether Kevin Trudeau lost any sleep on it or not. NOBODY KNOWS. We can all make guess and suppositional statements, but NOBODY KNOWS unless they have spoken with him. Johnny Archer has Kevin Trudeau's number on his cell phone. I would be interested to hear Johnny's opinion, or Earl's. Rodney was upset when he did not get paid and came out in a magazine article stating his opinions, but he sure didn't have a problem playing in an IPT challenge match.

Good luck to Mark Griffin. I can't wait to learn more about the formation of a new American professional tour.

One more thing. I would very much like to have an American-only event, open only to Americans, the same way they do it in other countries.

JAM
 
Very impressed

When I checked in this morning and saw that many of our very finest members on AZB have already been having "a board meeting", two thoughts came to my mind.

First, I'm very impressed with the way JoeyA, Hu, SJM, Jay, JAM & David can discuss the state of pool with such passion and yet be so civil to each other. The way they each express their ideas should be mandatory viewing for anyone who wants to know if pool players & fans are as knowledgeable and as passionate about their sport as any other fans in the world.
I for one am very proud that all of you are contributors here. Your high standing on AZB speaks for itself.

Second, my "two cents" comment can be narrowed down to a few sentences. I think the biggest difference between Trudeau & Mr Griffin is that Trudeau's real passion and love in life was / is making money. One of his hobbies was pool. If his IPT plan sank or swam, he still had his "other reputation" to fall back on. He was very generous with his payouts, if untimely, but too much of the show still revolved around his ego.

Whereas Mark Griffin's real passion seems to be his deep love for our great sport. And where Trudeau just "jumped right in at the head of the class", Mark Griffin has been quietly learning and honing his expertise in pooldom from the ground up. For a man like Mark Griffin to step forward as he is, with the long history of the failure of most of those who have gone down this path before him, not only takes courage on his part, it takes a real belief in himself. By doing this, he is in effect saying he is putting his reputation on the line. And so far, in pooldom, that reputation as been unimpeachable.

The very best in anything doesn't need a long drum roll and lots of spectacular fanfare to help accomplish their goals. They need desire, heart and a real passion for the endeavor that they're pursuing. Griffins desire, heart & passion is for pool. Not a myriad of other things plus pool.

Lets all keep our fingers crossed that the pros see things as the AZB Board of Directors see them. Mark Griffin needs all of our support.
So far, he's been worthy of it.
 
You would lose a majority vote of IPT players I believe

JAM,

Quite honestly the quality I admire most in you is your loyalty and you remain loyal to the IPT. Nothing wrong with that. However if we heard the voices of all of the IPT players, all of the people who posted $2000 to play in qualifiers, and all of the people who made serious investments of time and money based on KT's promises I think that you would still be vastly in the minority. It doesn't really matter though if you are right or I am. The IPT is the dead past despite the piddling events KT is putting on now while still owing many pool players money. It is time to look to the future and Mark and Mike represent the hopes for the future. I am wishing them both every success and not closing the door to either.

Hu




JAM said:
Hu, this is one topic you and I will never agree on, and that is okay. I am well aware that I stand in the minority on the IPT and Kevin Trudeau saga on this forum.

What is revealing, though, is that the majority of opinions that come forth on this forum are not opinions by the IPT competitors who attended these events, experienced the green room, collected tens of thousands of dollars, put a down payment on a home with their IPT winnings.

You see, the IPT did a lot of good, Hu, and it gave some players a renewed sense of enthusiasm, self-esteem, and pride that they had not experienced in years. Ask Scotty Townsend or Dave Matlock what they think about the IPT. I can tell you what Keith McCready thinks about Kevin Trudeau and the IPT, and his opinion is quite the opposite of the negative ones expressed on this forum.

This thread ain't about the IPT, but it is my fault for expressing a minority opinion and geting the IPT controversial ball rolling again, but I couldn't read the same words written by those who had no personal interest in the IPT to compete as an aspiring pro or professional player.

Yes, the IPT failed, but nobody knows whether Kevin Trudeau lost any sleep on it or not. NOBODY KNOWS. We can all make guess and suppositional statements, but NOBODY KNOWS unless they have spoken with him. Johnny Archer has Kevin Trudeau's number on his cell phone. I would be interested to hear Johnny's opinion, or Earl's. Rodney was upset when he did not get paid and came out in a magazine article stating his opinions, but he sure didn't have a problem playing in an IPT challenge match.

Good luck to Mark Griffin. I can't wait to learn more about the formation of a new American professional tour.

One more thing. I would very much like to have an American-only event, open only to Americans, the same way they do it in other countries.

JAM
Click to expand...
 
ShootingArts said:
JAM,

Quite honestly the quality I admire most in you is your loyalty and you remain loyal to the IPT. Nothing wrong with that. However if we heard the voices of all of the IPT players, all of the people who posted $2000 to play in qualifiers, and all of the people who made serious investments of time and money based on KT's promises I think that you would still be vastly in the minority. It doesn't really matter though if you are right or I am. The IPT is the dead past despite the piddling events KT is putting on now while still owing many pool players money. It is time to look to the future and Mark and Mike represent the hopes for the future. I am wishing them both every success and not closing the door to either.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words. :)

Leadership is a two-way street, loyalty up and loyalty down. Respect for one's superiors; care for one's crew.

There is no way to know what the majority of IPT players, qualifier players, and members feel about the IPT today on this forum.

I read many words from those who had absolutely no involvement in the IPT, though. There are very few comments from those who actually were an IPT member, qualifier, and competitor.

I have to stand by the players I have spoken to personally, and the ones I have spoken to, most of whom do not post on this forum, feel quite the opposite about Kevin Trudeau and the IPT than the opinions expressed in this thread, which is the reason for my response.

Thanks for being so civil with your reply to me. That's what makes you special and an asset to this forum! :)

JAM
 
Last edited:
Okay, I am almost convinced this is going to be a good thing. First though, may I have another glass of kool-aid?
 
the KT bashing is pathetic

the man paid out MILLIONS, who else has?

as mentioned earlier, the PLAYERS still back him, that's all that matters, they're even jumping to get in on the exhibition matches

all the KT crap ain't comin from the players so why is everyone else in such a huff?

having said that, I wish Mark Griffin the best, but support from the players won't come from promises and business plans, he'll have to shell out sooner or later
 
sjm said:
Take a deep bow, Joey, for what may be your single finest post as a member of this forum.

Pro pool players need to come to the realization that it's the man behind the venture, not the money behind the venture, that will save the day.

In December 2005, before the first IPT event was even played, I recall being rubbed the wrong way by posts suggestng that Kevin Trudeau's riches were the very guarantee that tournament players had always sought, and somewhat angrily, I posted the following:



As importantly, Trudeau had no history of doing anything for pool and refused to tie the future of his organization to anything or anyone concerned about the general well-being of both amateur and pro pool. He lacked the track record, and he lacked the passion to be the man who would see to pool's future as a sport. As many pointed out before the IPT held it's first tournament, he also lacked integrity.

Mark Griffin is the anti-Trudeau. He has the track record of being a continual and passionate supporter and benefactor of pro pool. He has given to our sport in so many ways, and his recent actions only serve to remind us of his unswerving commitment to pro pool and its future. He is a man who understands that the future of pool is about both amateur and pro pool. He is a man with vision, passion, and integrity, a man in whom the players should trust.

Mark Griffin may not be the only man worthy of such trust, but he is a passionate, credible, long-term benefactor of our sport. To pro players, with due respect, all I can say is:

"Despite his appalling track record, Trudeau's credit was good enough for you. Mark Griffin has a far greater track record, so, perhaps you need to have a little faith rather than trying to financially strong arm him to the point that he might lose interest in this venture."

Joey A hit the nail on the head.
Click to expand...

Stu,

I don't see nearly as many posts from you as I used to....but when you do choose to speak out, it is wise, eloquent, intelligent and right on the money.

Melissa
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top