Black phenolic cloudy

JC

JC

Coos Cues
Hoping someone can give me some advice. I got some "twice black" phenolic tube from a supplier and for the life of me I cannot seem to make it a pleasing uniform black.

The person I got it from told me to do this: "Sand down to material with 400 then sand with 600. Apply cyano, apply subsequent coats and polish sand with 1000. This should do it."

Pretty simple instructions, the trouble is It doesn't seem to do it. Putting the super glue over it just seals in the milky white splotches of the sanded surface. Nothing I seem to do will make it deep black. I can make it extremely smooth, but not black. It seems to not even be once black, much less twice.

Does anyone have a technique to get this to come out an even black or is it just not possible? Can it be painted or dyed before finishing? I am finishing with epoxy but there is no sense putting it over a splotchy black sealed in with CA. It will just look the same.

Thanks

JC
 
The key to make black linen look black all over is to keep the finish wet for a good length of time. Therefore superglue as a seal coat is not best! Seal it with a slow drying epoxy and it should blacken up for you. Then you can finish with superglue.
 
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JC said:
Hoping someone can give me some advice. I got some "twice black" phenolic tube from a supplier and for the life of me I cannot seem to make it a pleasing uniform black.

The person I got it from told me to do this: "Sand down to material with 400 then sand with 600. Apply cyano, apply subsequent coats and polish sand with 1000. This should do it."

Pretty simple instructions, the trouble is It doesn't seem to do it. Putting the super glue over it just seals in the milky white splotches of the sanded surface. Nothing I seem to do will make it deep black. I can make it extremely smooth, but not black. It seems to not even be once black, much less twice.

Does anyone have a technique to get this to come out an even black or is it just not possible? Can it be painted or dyed before finishing? I am finishing with epoxy but there is no sense putting it over a splotchy black sealed in with CA. It will just look the same.

Thanks

JC
Click to expand...

JC,

I hear you on this one.

That's why I stopped using phenolic long ago and use Juma exclusively.

Rick
 
White phenolic/

Some good tips here on keeping black phenolic black, How about keeping white phenolic white?

I've about decided the white and black phenolic is not worth the effort. Its so easy to contaminate, its extremely hard to get the crud out or the pores.

Never had a problem with the brown phenolics.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions..
 
StrokeAnalyzer said:
Some good tips here on keeping black phenolic black, How about keeping white phenolic white?

I've about decided the white and black phenolic is not worth the effort. Its so easy to contaminate, its extremely hard to get the crud out or the pores.

Never had a problem with the brown phenolics.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions..
Click to expand...
agreed
if it's got the crud in it, it isnt coming out no matter what you do
thats why i've gone to the juma & elforyn
 
Chris is on the money...the deeper the soak the darker it will be. I will also add that if it's without metal rings then I'd stop at around 320 grit. The rougher u leave the surface will allow the finish to penetrate faster and deeper
 
James Sarenich said:
One question, are you using thin cyano?
Click to expand...

I was but after reading this thread I think I will try to not use it at all. My plan now is to seal the wood with 5 minute epoxy as before but leave the phenolic alone until I apply the slow drying epoxy finish to the entire cue. But first I'm going to test the slow dry epoxy finish on some phenolic and see if it darkens as indicated by those here. In fact I am going to do that today. Thanks everyone:)

JC
 
I apply finish to the phenolic BEFORE I SAND IT. I turn it, blow it clean, clean it with lacquer thinner or MEK, let it dry then put on a heavy coat of finish. That way you cant contaminate either the wood or the plastic. Phenolics are such a good material for rings, I find it really hard to use anything else.
 
JC said:
I was but after reading this thread I think I will try to not use it at all. My plan now is to seal the wood with 5 minute epoxy as before but leave the phenolic alone until I apply the slow drying epoxy finish to the entire cue. But first I'm going to test the slow dry epoxy finish on some phenolic and see if it darkens as indicated by those here. In fact I am going to do that today. Thanks everyone:)

JC
Click to expand...

Use thin epoxy. Not that thcik 5-minute crap.
 
I've had some success using West 105/207 here again, I've run across some Black/double black phenolic that almost nothing worked except black dye. Thus I steer away from using it unless absolutely necessary. It seems to happen when I'm within a few thousands and ready to sand :(

Mario
 
Most of the cuemaker's I know are using double black rod instead of tube to avoid these problems.
 
Good Info.

Paul Dayton said:
I apply finish to the phenolic BEFORE I SAND IT. I turn it, blow it clean, clean it with lacquer thinner or MEK, let it dry then put on a heavy coat of finish. That way you cant contaminate either the wood or the plastic. Phenolics are such a good material for rings, I find it really hard to use anything else.
Click to expand...

:clapping::clapping::clapping: Good one Paul.:thumbup:
 
I've had a few ready to put the epoxy on and noticed the little spots you guys are mentioning, a magic eraser worked wonders on removing them and allowing me to seal the cue.
 
Other cross contamination

I recently had issues with ebony dust getting into maple forearm on a full splice. Ebony dust is like face powder.When sanding the points where the two woods meet each other..... thats the area where the problem is worse. Any ideas on how to eliminate this problem?

Thanks
 
I had a batch of cyano that was older than I realized and would spot on black phenolic. Replaced it and WAA LAA.... I usually mix thin with medium so the viscosity is thicker and use cut foam to spread it on my finish lathe. Turn it as slow as it will go, helps the finish get smooth.

John
 
Double black phenolics have not been the same since Atlas changed manufacturer. I was at the BCA in 2001. Chad from Atlas told me then they were changing manufacturer. It hasn't been the same since. I still have a few left . I also bought some from an estate sale. Not as good as the real old double black. I was part of a group buy from Nplex ( I'll mask the name of the manufacturer ) for some brown and double black phenolics. The brown one is not as dark as the old ones that used to be freely available.
The double black does not turn black like the old one from Atlas . But, it doesn't tear like some new ones today.
Double black did not use to be a big deal. Hell, I saw Judd use them as handles .
 
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