Bonus Ball Schedule: Right or Wrong

[Luxury]

I truly understand why the players want a weekly check... tournament life can be tough and 'eating what you kill' can be a real struggle. I guess I cannot blame anyone selling out for their own financial gain. I wouldn't, but I've never been in your shoes. But lets not get it twisted, it really is selling out. I have yet to see anyone play bonus ball who wasn't on the clock. I've yet to hear of anyone gambling playing bonus ball. Everyone smiles for the camera and backs it up because they're getting paid to do so, I get it.

You can label me a hater, that's totally fine. I'm not really worried about what you think of me. But I'm not a hater, I'm realistic. I'm not even trying to be mean, just honest. On facebook you called me "bitter" because of what I've said about a game I'm not a fan of. Either you think I was hoping to be involved (LOL) or possibly bitter would imply something else in England that I'm unaware of... but I can assure you, I'm not bitter. Bonus ball could not help me financial and it will never hurt me. I don't make a living in pool.

I've watch the game. I remember being at the US Open years ago when they were pushing it out in the lobby... it was laughable. My opinion hasn't changed. I think it's terribly boring and cheesy. I'm not a fan, but I'm not your market. I do think the studio looks pretty cool (minus the purple strip club lights).

I personally am a fan of your game and hope I continue to see you playing 9ball and 10ball tournaments... and winning.

Scott Frost has gone on and on about how he truly loves this game and think it is more challenging than one pocket and that he plays it all the time and that other pros are loving it and on and on and on.

Having watched every match and played a lot myself I truly believe he is sincere and what he is saying makes sense. I'm a little shocked how many posters on here have openly disrespected the players acting like they can read the players minds.

 

[mikeyfrost]

LOL this is hilarious. Let's see who can write the biggest check to buy the players. This just got too weird for even me. I'm having one of my biggest shaking my head moments in the forums history.

Is it ebay for pool players these days? Gotta be kidding.

 

[Diamond69]

I like Jay's offer. I don't think he's trying to buy the players loyalty. He has been very clear on how he feels about BB's scheduling issues. He's trying to show the players he/they will do whatever they can to help out, while trying to ensure the success of the tour's they are trying to build up.

My personal opinion is whether it works or not, I hope everyone involved can get past the first season growing pains with no failures or hard feelings and all succeed and work together and grow the sport further into the future.

 

[watchez]

Scott Frost has gone on and on about how he truly loves this game and think it is more challenging than one pocket and that he plays it all the time and that other pros are loving it and on and on and on.

Having watched every match and played a lot myself I truly believe he is sincere and what he is saying makes sense. I'm a little shocked how many posters on here have openly disrespected the players acting like they can read the players minds.

Or maybe some of us have asked the players and gotten an honest answer.

 

[watchez]

He said stake, not free roll.

I'm not sure exactly what that means.

If you don't have to come out of pocket, it's a free roll. I'm sure they can work out the % among themselves.

Free Roll -- I had nothing. I didn't put up a nickel in entry fees. I win. Now I have something.

 

[cleary]

Scott Frost has gone on and on about how he truly loves this game and think it is more challenging than one pocket and that he plays it all the time and that other pros are loving it and on and on and on.

Having watched every match and played a lot myself I truly believe he is sincere and what he is saying makes sense. I'm a little shocked how many posters on here have openly disrespected the players acting like they can read the players minds.

I do not know Scott personally and I have no idea what he actually thinks of the game. I do however know many others that play. Several players live near me her in NYC and even more have been hanging around our area off and on over the past few months. I've yet to see anyone play it.

I was in Vegas a few months back and went to several pool rooms. I saw 10ball, 9ball, 1 pocket and even 3c. No bonus ball was being played.

 

[Luxury]

Or maybe some of us have asked the players and gotten an honest answer.

That's a good point.

I think Darren Appleton just explained how he wasn't impressed with Bonus Ball at first but it has really grown on him. He has watched a lot of the matches that he does not have to be at and Scott has gone WAY above and beyond any scripts that he would be obligated to say.

He has straight up said that he truly believes it is the best game on the planet.

I think if you would have asked Appleton or Scott even a few weeks ago what they thought of the game you might get a different answer than they would give you today and they would have been honest both times.

I'm just guessing here. I really don't know when you asked them or when Cleary asked them. I also don't really know what they are thinking either.

I just love the players and I feel there has been a lot of disrespect on the forums towards them lately and I just don't get it.

 

[JumpinJoe]

If you don't have to come out of pocket, it's a free roll. I'm sure they can work out the % among themselves.

Free Roll -- I had nothing. I didn't put up a nickel in entry fees. I win. Now I have something.

Didn't I see somewhere where you claimed to be a poker player? If not sorry, and this is irrelevant.

But if you are a poker player I would think you know the difference between a free roll and being staked.
I don't expect a pool player to understand the difference, they think everything's a free roll, or should be one.

 

[Spimp13]

Didn't I see somewhere where you claimed to be a poker player? If not sorry, and this is irrelevant.

But if you are a poker player I would think you know the difference between a free roll and being staked.
I don't expect a pool player to understand the difference, they think everything's a free roll, or should be one.

There is definitely a difference and actually in each world they can mean different things. (Hint - makeup).

 

[Black-Balled]

I notice everyone involved has this line in their writings/videos/speeches. It almost seems scripted.

I'm not a "hater" either, it's just an observation.

And you probably aren't too far from 100% accurate either.

I sit next to the PR Department of a company that pumps ~2000 people a year through PR related training. Can't have people singing any other songs but ours.

Or, look at Coke- the soft drink, not the nose powder- you go virtually anywhere in the world and it is the same.

 

[Cory in DC]

And you probably aren't too far from 100% accurate either.

I sit next to the PR Department of a company that pumps ~2000 people a year through PR related training. Can't have people singing any other songs but ours.

Or, look at Coke- the soft drink, not the nose powder- you go virtually anywhere in the world and it is the same.

Actually, Mexican Coca-Cola is imported into the US sold it at twice the price as regular, because it's different. I think it's made with sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup. So there you have it.

And that should tell everyone they need to know about Bonus Ball scheduling!

 

[Luxury]

Actually, Mexican Coca-Cola is imported into the US sold it at twice the price as regular, because it's different. I think it's made with sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup. So there you have it.

And that should tell everyone they need to know about Bonus Ball scheduling!

Me and my gf were in Puerto Villarta and we were big rum n coke drinkers and we hated every drink and we just figured the fountain had a cheap cola.

We got excited when we saw a sealed can of coke and we tried to make a drink with it and to our horror it was still awful.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I don't usually post on forums anymore, but I will speak on behalf of the players...

It just seems to me everyone is against Bonus Ball for the wrong reasons and it all has to do with money.

I certainly respect Greg and all his staff and I will continue to support his events in the future. I'm sure this year's event will be well supported and a great success, and wish everyone luck.


Darren Appleton
World 9 Ball Champion

Very nice response! perception is reality and the perception is/was that the players were being PREVENTED from attending because bonus balls said "THE SHOW MUST GO ON"????

But, according to you that is not the case!!! According to your response it is a financial issue behind the decision! Greg and Jay have eliminated a big part of the players financial apprehension to attending with their offer. So, what happens if the regular players and alternates for the double booked teams decide to accept Greg and Jay's offer??? That leaves bonus ball with "NO SHOW" according to their scheduling structure "Someone Has To Be Odd Man Out And Stay Behind To Play Bonus Ball" is it captains choice? do you draw straws?

With Mosconi Cup selections based on players yearly performances and accomplishments. Then how can the absence of several players in various events be justified if pool truly is their CAREER path??? How does the players sponsors feel about the absences to several HIGH PROFILE events???

As a fan, I think you can understand fan apprehension when players are double booked like this! We don't know! The event is only days away on the 21st and today is the 12th!!! As a fan, we need MORE than 10 days notice!!! We want to support the players and the events and when NOTHING is said til 10 days prior to a event is more than BRUTAL.

whether the players like it our not the fans SUPPORT you in one way or another!!!! We use our precious vacation days for events and spend $3000 for the week as you so eloquently described. Just like the players, but with NO CHANCE of a return on our investment! Zero while some players walk away with $20,000 in all around money and last year SVB got $50,000 at Derby!!!

So, please we appreciate your damage control statement. But, you are horribly over looking the fans that are caught in the middle of this three way player, promoter, Bonus Ball circle F__K!

I wish the players would have communicated much better with everyone! Its sad that industry people that sign big checks and fans get such little consideration!!!!

KD

 

[dynamite]

Fans

Very nice response! perception is reality and the perception is/was that the players were being PREVENTED from attending because bonus balls said "THE SHOW MUST GO ON"????

But, according to you that is not the case!!! According to your response it is a financial issue behind the decision! Greg and Jay have eliminated a big part of the players financial apprehension to attending with their offer. So, what happens if the regular players and alternates for the double booked teams decide to accept Greg and Jay's offer??? That leaves bonus ball with "NO SHOW" according to their scheduling structure "Someone Has To Be Odd Man Out And Stay Behind To Play Bonus Ball" is it captains choice? do you draw straws?

With Mosconi Cup selections based on players yearly performances and accomplishments. Then how can the absence of several players in various events be justified if pool truly is their CAREER path??? How does the players sponsors feel about the absences to several HIGH PROFILE events???

As a fan, I think you can understand fan apprehension when players are double booked like this! We don't know! The event is only days away on the 21st and today is the 12th!!! As a fan, we need MORE than 10 days notice!!! We want to support the players and the events and when NOTHING is said til 10 days prior to a event is more than BRUTAL.

whether the players like it our not the fans SUPPORT you in one way or another!!!! We use or precious vacation days for events and spend $3000 for the week as you so eloquently described. Just like the players, but with NO CHANCE of a return on our investment! Zero while some players walk away with $20,000 in all around money and last year SVB got $50,000 at Derby!!!

So, please we appreciate your damage control statement. But, you are horribly over looking the fans that are caught in the middle of this three way player, promoter, Bonus Ball circle F__K!

I wish the players would have communicated much better with everyone! Its sad that industry people that sign big checks and fans get such little consideration!!!!

KD

Well the fans should be happy .. Last year not so many star players attended including efren/busta/ Corteza /Melling / Fiejen / to name a few ..

This year you get players from all over the world china / Japan / Europe./ Middle East / with star players such as efren / busta / Corteza / biado / Yukio / can / Melling / Boyes / van boening / Fiejen / pagulayan /archer / hatch / and many more as a fan I would be excited as hell with this star cast lineup

Why didn't these guys get slated last year for not showing up ? With no excuse ..

 

[dynamite]

That's a good point.

I think Darren Appleton just explained how he wasn't impressed with Bonus Ball at first but it has really grown on him. He has watched a lot of the matches that he does not have to be at and Scott has gone WAY above and beyond any scripts that he would be obligated to say.

He has straight up said that he truly believes it is the best game on the planet.

I think if you would have asked Appleton or Scott even a few weeks ago what they thought of the game you might get a different answer than they would give you today and they would have been honest both times.

I'm just guessing here. I really don't know when you asked them or when Cleary asked them. I also don't really know what they are thinking either.

I just love the players and I feel there has been a lot of disrespect on the forums towards them lately and I just don't get it.

Thanks for the support.
Yes obviously it's a new game we all still learning .. Lot of players didn't like the game at first but ask them now and am sure the answers be different .. It's a great game it just takes time to learn ..

Darren

 

[cleary]

Thanks for the support.
Yes obviously it's a new game we all still learning .. Lot of players didn't like the game at first but ask them now and am sure the answers be different .. It's a great game it just takes time to learn ..

Darren

I've watched and didn't like. Maybe I'll try to play it. Perhaps it will change my opinion.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Well the fans should be happy .. Last year not so many star players attended including efren/busta/ Corteza /Melling / Fiejen / to name a few ..
Yes it was the first year and not well advertised. Greg got the green light and date and just took it. If memory serves me correct those players were at another event at the time!!!
This year you get players from all over the world china / Japan / Europe./ Middle East / with star players such as efren / busta / Corteza / biado / Yukio / can / Melling / Boyes / van boening / Fiejen / pagulayan /archer / hatch / and many more as a fan I would be excited as hell with this star cast lineup

Why didn't these guys get slated last year for not showing up ? With no excuse .. Because it was new and done with short notice!!!

Thoughts in Blue!!!

KD

 

[dynamite]

Thoughts in Blue!!!

KD

so because a handful of guys playing somewhere else its a huge problem...

doesnt matter what tournament it is not everyone going to show..
only so many days in a year and peoples circumstances are different.

i missed the derby 2010 efren missed derby before, so many great players missed these type of events in past,but because so many good to great players in the world they replace them ..

we recently played china open world ranking tournament 40k winner.. shane didnt show plus many more players, did the promoter complain? no.. just replace them with other big names.

seems to me this year will be a great field with players from all over the world for the first time,of course some players will be missing with or with or without bonus ball...

if i was a fan i would be excited with a line up that includes
efren/busta/shane/alex/corteza/archer/hatch/biado/kiamco/melling/boyes/fiejen/shaw/burford/yukio.. and many more great players ..probably best field ever assembled for tournament like this .

darren

 

[dynamite]

Very nice response! perception is reality and the perception is/was that the players were being PREVENTED from attending because bonus balls said "THE SHOW MUST GO ON"????

But, according to you that is not the case!!! According to your response it is a financial issue behind the decision! Greg and Jay have eliminated a big part of the players financial apprehension to attending with their offer. So, what happens if the regular players and alternates for the double booked teams decide to accept Greg and Jay's offer??? That leaves bonus ball with "NO SHOW" according to their scheduling structure "Someone Has To Be Odd Man Out And Stay Behind To Play Bonus Ball" is it captains choice? do you draw straws?

With Mosconi Cup selections based on players yearly performances and accomplishments. Then how can the absence of several players in various events be justified if pool truly is their CAREER path??? How does the players sponsors feel about the absences to several HIGH PROFILE events???


As a fan, I think you can understand fan apprehension when players are double booked like this! We don't know! The event is only days away on the 21st and today is the 12th!!! As a fan, we need MORE than 10 days notice!!! We want to support the players and the events and when NOTHING is said til 10 days prior to a event is more than BRUTAL.

whether the players like it our not the fans SUPPORT you in one way or another!!!! We use or precious vacation days for events and spend $3000 for the week as you so eloquently described. Just like the players, but with NO CHANCE of a return on our investment! Zero while some players walk away with $20,000 in all around money and last year SVB got $50,000 at Derby!!!

So, please we appreciate your damage control statement. But, you are horribly over looking the fans that are caught in the middle of this three way player, promoter, Bonus Ball circle F__K!

I wish the players would have communicated much better with everyone! Its sad that industry people that sign big checks and fans get such little consideration!!!!

KD

but all those fans to go watch got job right and got the choice also to go or not? and guaranteed a paycheck every week?..i bet they dont get threats if decide to pull out with two weeks notice

am sure lot of the players wish they were guaranteed a paycheck every week.

 

[dynamite]

????

Darren, first of all thank you for taking the time to post on here. It's nice to hear directly from one of the Bonus Ball players. I'm glad to hear that you enjoy the challenge of playing this game. Privately I don't think all the other Bonus ball players share your enthusiasm and many are there to get their check every week. If the money runs out, I doubt we will see you or anyone else playing this game in the future.

Now on to specifics. what's very different about the Southern Classic this year (besides the fact that it is now an established event with a proven track record) is that we have tied it to the Ultimate 10-Ball tournament. This was done to accommodate the players so they did not have to pay double travel expenses. Where else in professional pool can the players get two similar events back to back in the same location?

I think you have inflated your numbers considerably when you talk about expenses. Rooms were only $69 a night up until a few days ago. That's a great rate, only $35 each per night for a double. Even now the rooms are only $99 a night, so it's $50 per player to stay there. Wherever you are, whether in Vegas or Tunica you have to eat, so that expense is really irrelevant to this argument. And even in Las Vegas, players are paying rent, typically around $250 a week. So the cost of a room in Tunica is not that much more than it would be to go back to Vegas. There is no additional travel expense since you're already there. Only one round trip airfare for both tournaments.

Now let's talk about entry fees and buy backs. I think the total for all three Southern Classic events comes out to over $600, and that's a real expense. Greg and I would like to help out the Bonus Ball team members who are on the fence about staying after the Ultimate 10-Ball is over. We are willing to stake them for their entry fees and buy backs. If anyone is interested they can contact me directly at jayhelfert@yahoo.com or call me at (310)370-3994. Once again Bonus ball players can get staked to play in the Southern Classic!

This offer does not include the Bigfoot Challenge which will remain an elite event for the best players. To play in the Bigfoot you must be invited. Of concern to Greg and I is the fact that several of the invited players who confirmed their commitment to play have now withdrawn. These same players are also playing in the Ultimate 10-Ball. We moved the dates of the Bigfoot Challenge specifically to accommodate the invited players. Instead of being held later in the Southern Classic we moved it up to start immediately after the Ultimate 10-Ball. Players choosing to withdraw from this event, who had previously committed to play, may not be invited to future Bigfoot events. For this special invitational event we need committed players who we can rely on. This event will be the showcase for future tournaments, and it is of utmost importance that we invite the right players. I hope you understand our position here. Just like Bonus Ball this is business, not personal.

Thank you again for your input on this forum. Jay Helfert

jay i dont agree with you at all.. its wrong to offer bonus ball players free entry.. why not offer it to the guys with more expenses coming from europe/middle east/asia..or the guy thats scraped money together to come play great southern classic?

with or without bonus ball some players will miss the tournament it happens at every major tournament worldwide.. but still assemble great fields.You still got a great field Also...and bca will be a great field.

and the threat of bans to future events is low man..we not contracted to anyone in the pool world we all self employed and free to play when and where we can.

for one its a 10foot table and not really a invitational tournament its cost 1k plus expenses..

so lets say for example warren kiamco entered your tournament big foot one month ago ,but now wanted to pull out because cant afford to play or offered a gig somewhere else with guaranteed pay,you going to ban him from future tournaments?

everyone as different type of expenses mine would have been 3k to stay and play..

entry $600 i dont room share with anyone so that another $700 then 1k entry big foot
then spend eat out 3 times day plus drinks least another 700.. so 3k it would cost me.

am sure other players in same situation who just cant afford it.. personally me one the lucky ones, careful with my money so i can afford it... but this time i decided i not going to play...meanwhile i supported everyone of your events and never missed a 1k challenge fatboy or bigfoot not too many players can say that maybe 2 or 3 at most.

but if you dont want to invite me to future $1,000 entry invitational tournaments then fine..

plus all the players i spoke to love the game of bonus ball maybe they just telling you what you want to hear

i just want to play pool and help pool be in a better place in the future

Darren