Buddy Hall Question

[drivermaker]

Blud is sooooo right, no one ever had or has the smooth, steady stroke with that pause before pulling the trigger that Buddy has. If you ever noticed, on the last draw back of his stroke, the ferrule often comes completely out of his bridge. It is the most perfect stroke I have ever seen.

I couldn't agree more about how perfect his stroke is. It is just f*#kin' beautiful to watch. The CB always goes the same speed and he move's it around effortlessly. I don't know how he even loses a match at this stage of his life, other that he sometimes gets to bitchin' and moanin' about something and he can't let go of it and his focus goes haywire. But I think his stroke might have been the most perfect EVER. I can't imagine how some shortstop felt back when he was on the road and they saw that stroke at work, unless they were just too stupid to notice or their own egos were too big to care. You would have to know right off the bat that you were going to get the crap pounded out of you.

 

[sjm]

As most of you know, Buddy and I have been the best of friends for over 40 years...Best position player of all times in my opinion.

I'd concur that Buddy is the best nine ball position play technician ever, but I'd have to say that comparing him to Mosconi is a near impossibility.

If you said "Mosconi was the best straight pool position player and Buddy the best nine ball position player", then we'd be in full agreement.

I just don't see how you can rate one over the other.

 

[shortstroke]

I couldn't agree more about how perfect his stroke is. It is just f*#kin' beautiful to watch. The CB always goes the same speed and he move's it around effortlessly. I don't know how he even loses a match at this stage of his life, other that he sometimes gets to bitchin' and moanin' about something and he can't let go of it and his focus goes haywire. But I think his stroke might have been the most perfect EVER. I can't imagine how some shortstop felt back when he was on the road and they saw that stroke at work, unless they were just too stupid to notice or their own egos were too big to care. You would have to know right off the bat that you were going to get the crap pounded out of you.

watching buddy play reminds me of the guy that matched up with him and after buddy ran about six racks his stakehorse pulled up. the shortstop pleaded not to quit because so far buddy only had been shooting at straight ins. lol

 

[cueman]

I wish Jimmy Sanders had a computer or if he does, posted on this site. Jimmy knows all the stories at Guys and Dolls. Seems to me, Bob Dancer was always there too. You are right, shortstroke, when Buddy lived in Shreveport they all took a shot and I don't remember any of them leaving with cash.

How many times did Louie Roberts get the 7 ball from Buddy there and get beat-up with it before he finally won? To this day, Mike Segal will tell you the toughest 9 ball player he ever played was Buddy Hall.

Blud is sooooo right, no one ever had or has the smooth, steady stroke with that pause before pulling the trigger that Buddy has. If you ever noticed, on the last draw back of his stroke, the ferrule often comes completely out of his bridge. It is the most perfect stroke I have ever seen.

Then you have Keith's stroke. Oh hell, it works well for him, lol.

Hemicudas,
I have a question for your. Have you ever seen Vernon Elliott play? If so did he and Buddy or Keith ever match up. He has become a local legend in north Georgia and southern Tennessee. They say he refused to play tournaments, but would gladly play any open tournament winner nine ball or one pocket for their winnings. Did I see you at some of the Wagon Wheel tournaments back in the late 80's and early 90's or at one of the BCA trade shows? You sure look familiar. Almost positive I have run into you before.
Chris

 

[hemicudas]

watching buddy play reminds me of the guy that matched up with him and after buddy ran about six racks his stakehorse pulled up. the shortstop pleaded not to quit because so far buddy only had been shooting at straight ins. lol

Sounds so familiar, Shortstroke. We had a local Jackson shortstop that we use to call the Fly, because he wouldn't light on anything that wasn't dead. The Fly usually played at a pool hall here that wasn't known for its gambling. You could get a $5 or $10 game on occasion but it was usually $1 or $2 action. One afternoon the Fly calls the action pool room and asks for me. I answer it and he asks if Bill Stack was around. He knew it could be a knock getting a phone call so he ask for me. I told him Stack was there and put him on the phone. About 5 mins. later Stack hangs up and says, Lets go see what kind of trap the Fly is in. On the way Stack tells me the Fly has this guy down for $20 a game and needs more money because he is playing bad and the guy is getting lucky. Stack said he didn't want him to play because he knew he could win, he just wanted to borrow some money.

The room was all the way across town from us so it took us close to a half hour to get there. We walk in and the Fly comes running over to us with his hand out and says, Just let me borrow a $100 and you get a jellyroll. We ask him how much he is stuck and he says, $120. Stack asks him, Has the guy put any racks together and the Fly says yea, 3 or 4 I guess but they were EASY OUTS, lol. The Fly had never strung 3 racks together in his life. Stack and I walk to the back where they were playing and guess who the Fly wants the money to play? You got it. Buddy Hall. Jimmy Sanders was setting in the chair laughing his ass off when he saw us.

The Fly knew names but he never left the Jackson area and Buddy obviously didn't volunteer his name. Buddy did try to match up with us but we both wanted and needed the world so that was out the window. Buddy told us he was heading east and just wanted to hit some balls in what he thought was a family room when this guy came up and hustled him to play and the nut has always been a bitch on the road so he played the guy.

No, Shortstroke, everybody didn't recognize that perfect stroke, lol.

 

[Keith McCready]

Hey Keith,


A small correction, my friend. The bet was $4,500.00, per set. I put up 500 myself.
I was in on that match, but it was 10 ball, not 9-ball. Efern refused to play 9 ball, and thought he had the best of it playing 10 ball...

This was the first time they ever played.

f straight in with the cue ball 1/2" off the bottom rail at the first diamond, and the 9-ball, 1/2" past the side pocket but straight in the corner. No way to cut it in, or follow it to get back to the bottom rail where the 10 was laying. Buddy jacked up punched the cue-ball, slammed the 9 in the corner up table, drew the cue ball back to the lower rail and won that set.

As most of you know, Buddy and I have been the best of friends for over 40 years. We have been on the road many times over the years. We are the best of friends.
I think he was the best at one time.
He has a pure stroke,steady hands and a very strong will to win.
Best position player of all times in my opinion. Many may disagree, but they would of had to been there as Keith and I were for many years, to agree.

Buddy won an impressive 13 of 14 tournament in a row.

Buddy can play through the stack, and seems to never distrube the balls the way there laying. just pays around all and runs out, time and again....

Closest man to have a simular stroke is Mike Gulyassy, [babys-pro-shop]...His style of play is real close to Buddy's....

At this same tournament, Efern played Mike Seigal, a race of rotation, in a back room. No contest, Efern won easily over captain hook......That was also for $4,500.00. One game............

blud

Blud, just had breakfast with Buddy, and he recalls the match with "Cesar Morales" as a seven-ahead match for 10 large, and he won one set. Red charged for admission to watch them in this match and split the gate monies with Efren and Buddy. And you are right, it was 10-ball that they played.

Miss seeing you, Blud. Hope all is well on the homefront and you and yours!

Your friend,
Keith

 

[hemicudas]

Hemicudas,
I have a question for your. Have you ever seen Vernon Elliott play? If so did he and Buddy or Keith ever match up. He has become a local legend in north Georgia and southern Tennessee. They say he refused to play tournaments, but would gladly play any open tournament winner nine ball or one pocket for their winnings. Did I see you at some of the Wagon Wheel tournaments back in the late 80's and early 90's or at one of the BCA trade shows? You sure look familiar. Almost positive I have run into you before.
Chris

Cueman, you surely could have run into me somewhere but I assure you it was NOT where Vernon Elliott was. I was in this for $$$$ and I, nor any other player I was on the road with, in the Chattanooga area, had a prayer of beating Vernon. So I avoided him like the plague. He could have told me to pick a ball. So what? It was like trying to play Buddy or Keith. Hell, I liked my money.

In fact, cueman, to my knowledge, I have never seen Vernon. Could have but didn't know it was him. I had/have heard enough stories to know to keep my hand out of THAT cookie jar.

I don't know if Buddy or Keith ever played Vernon. How bout it, Keith? You and Vernon ever hook horns?

 

[yobagua]

What comes around goes around

A side note on the Cesar Morales/Buddy Hall era. Efren was having a bad time with his backer. It seemed that after Efren had taken down all the cash he claims that he was "cheated" by his backer. Seemed his backer was duly punished by Buddy as well.

 

[blud]

memories gone

Blud, just had breakfast with Buddy, and he recalls the match with "Cesar Morales" as a seven-ahead match for 10 large, and he won one set. Red charged for admission to watch them in this match and split the gate monies with Efren and Buddy. And you are right, it was 10-ball that they played.

Miss seeing you, Blud. Hope all is well on the homefront and you and yours!

Your friend,
Keith

I stand to be corrected, my friend. Been so long ago, must be slippin a bit.
blud

 

[hemicudas]

I stand to be corrected, my friend. Been so long ago, must be slippin a bit.
blud

When Efren got back to Chicago after the set he said it was for $10K. It wasn't long after that, that he played Nick Varner a set for the same $10K and beat Nick. Don't know if it was the same 7 ahead or not.

 

[OldHasBeen]

Gotta Tell 2 Of My "Kieth & Buddy" Stories !

kEITH -
While playing at Afton Billiards here in St. Louis about (? 33 years ago ?), this 16 year old comes about 2 am asking for a $20 nine-ball game. The other 2 good players were busy so I play him. We play about an hour and I'm maybe $60 or $80 loser (this was un-heard of for me), and I quit.
ALL the other players asked me why I would quit such a young kid and they said I couldn't "stand the heat".
Well, I saw what I saw, and didn't like what I was seeing.
The next afternoon, this kid comes back in and the other 2 good players jump on him like " S**** On S*** " !
I proceed to get about 3 railbirds to bet $5 & $10 on this "Kid" for me because if I were to bet, everyone would have thought I knew something.
I didn't!
All I knew is What I saw, witnessed & paid for last night.
THE "KID" WAS KEITH & IF YOU CAN'T FIGURE THE OUTCOME - YOU JUST NEVER HEARD HOW GOOD KEITH PLAYED @ 16.

BUDDY - Just One Of My Favorites !!!
I had just witnessed what the "Larry&Mike" show had done to the local St. Louis players a couple of weeks earlier and again, I was fortunate enough to be on the right end of the wagering. (Larry claimed to be the Backer but thats another story).
Now - I am in Oklahoma City (playing Pittsburgh Mike daily) and here comes Larry & Mike into the poolroom at 44th & May. We talked a little and Larry says they are on their way to Shreveport, LA to play Buddy.
NOW REMEMBER - BUDDY & I ARE PRETTY CLOSE AS I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO "GO ON THE ROAD" WITH HIM WAY BACK WHEN.
But I couldn't get it out of my head how great this Mike Segal had played just 2 weeks earlier in St Louis. I ask Larry if I could get a "Sweat-Bet" piece on Mike when they play. He says sure and agreed to give me a $10 bet when they played.
A couple of nights later word comes in (via phone) that they are playing - so I call Guys & Dolls and speak to Larry. I asked him how things were going.
Larry tells me - "WELL, TOM - THE HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR 9 HOURS NOW AND MIKE HASEN'T MISSED A BALL - MADE A BAD ROLLOUT - IS BREAKING VERY WELL & PLAYING AS GOOD AS I HAVE EVER SEEN HIM PLAY.
I says "Great" - How do we stand?
LARRY SAYS - "WERE 4 GAMES STUCK" !!!

WORDS CAN'T DESCRIBE HOW "GREAT" BUDDY PLAYED IN THIS GUYS & DOLLS POOLROOM IN SHREVEPORT, LA. THE OWNER "RED BOX" (I think), HAD A ROOM MADE FOR BUDDY - "BUDDY'S ROOM" AND IT WAS THE BEST EQUIPMENT & CONDITIONS THAT $ COULD BUY.
IN MY OPINION - I SAW "PERFECT NINE-BALL" BY BUDDY MORE THAN ONCE AND FOR HOURS AT A TIME !!!

While there once - I went to lunch/dinner (at Morrisons) with Eddie Taylor & Jersey Red. (Oh, How I wished I would have had a tape recorder of the stories that went on for about 2 hours - I don't think I said 3 words the whole time). Buddy might not know this but the both of them agreed that Buddy was playing Nine-Ball better than either of them had ever seen.
JUST THINK OF THAT COMING FROM THESE TWO !!!

Now, I heard Buddy say yesterday (announcing at the US Open) that he admired "Wimpy" (Luther Lassiter) as playing Nine-Ball, a level better than anyone else at Johnston City in those days. He also said that Wimpy was a Class Act & A Great Gentelman of the game.

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE - (For those Days).

BUT FOR MY $$$ - "BUDDY" PLAYED THE BEST NINE-BALL I HAVE EVER SEEN.
& I've seen a lotta Nine-Ball in the last 44 years.

ps - After my conversation with Larry that night - I called off my bet - waited about 20 min. and called a local player I knew. - I had him bet $25 a game ON BUDDY with some railbirds.
"NOW I WAS MAKING $$$ IN OKLAHOMA CITY - & - SHREVEPORT"!

 

[ShootingArts]

I am wondering if anyone ever saw Buddy Hall lose a money game where no weight was involved. I have never seen him lose, I have seen him repeatedly beat the best players in the world even over and over. Just wondering?

Tales of old from great posters, a few that we still have. Some greats that aren't active anymore too, on AZB or in the pool world.

A glimpse of AZB twenty years ago. What it once was and could be again!

Hu

 

[jay helfert]

Blud, just had breakfast with Buddy, and he recalls the match with "Cesar Morales" as a seven-ahead match for 10 large, and he won one set. Red charged for admission to watch them in this match and split the gate monies with Efren and Buddy. And you are right, it was 10-ball that they played.

Miss seeing you, Blud. Hope all is well on the homefront and you and yours!

Your friend,
Keith

It was a Race to Eleven! Buddy is forgetful here. I was there and ref'd for them. Buddy won 11-9 I believe. Red did charge five or ten a head to get in. I ref'd so I could get in free. Buddy tipped me a 20, that's all.

 

[jay helfert]

Gotta Tell 2 Of My "Kieth & Buddy" Stories !

kEITH -
While playing at Afton Billiards here in St. Louis about (? 33 years ago ?), this 16 year old comes about 2 am asking for a $20 nine-ball game. The other 2 good players were busy so I play him. We play about an hour and I'm maybe $60 or $80 loser (this was un-heard of for me), and I quit.
ALL the other players asked me why I would quit such a young kid and they said I couldn't "stand the heat".
Well, I saw what I saw, and didn't like what I was seeing.
The next afternoon, this kid comes back in and the other 2 good players jump on him like " S**** On S*** " !
I proceed to get about 3 railbirds to bet $5 & $10 on this "Kid" for me because if I were to bet, everyone would have thought I knew something.
I didn't!
All I knew is What I saw, witnessed & paid for last night.
THE "KID" WAS KEITH & IF YOU CAN'T FIGURE THE OUTCOME - YOU JUST NEVER HEARD HOW GOOD KEITH PLAYED @ 16.

BUDDY - Just One Of My Favorites !!!
I had just witnessed what the "Larry&Mike" show had done to the local St. Louis players a couple of weeks earlier and again, I was fortunate enough to be on the right end of the wagering. (Larry claimed to be the Backer but thats another story).
Now - I am in Oklahoma City (playing Pittsburgh Mike daily) and here comes Larry & Mike into the poolroom at 44th & May. We talked a little and Larry says they are on their way to Shreveport, LA to play Buddy.
NOW REMEMBER - BUDDY & I ARE PRETTY CLOSE AS I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO "GO ON THE ROAD" WITH HIM WAY BACK WHEN.
But I couldn't get it out of my head how great this Mike Segal had played just 2 weeks earlier in St Louis. I ask Larry if I could get a "Sweat-Bet" piece on Mike when they play. He says sure and agreed to give me a $10 bet when they played.
A couple of nights later word comes in (via phone) that they are playing - so I call Guys & Dolls and speak to Larry. I asked him how things were going.
Larry tells me - "WELL, TOM - THE HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR 9 HOURS NOW AND MIKE HASEN'T MISSED A BALL - MADE A BAD ROLLOUT - IS BREAKING VERY WELL & PLAYING AS GOOD AS I HAVE EVER SEEN HIM PLAY.
I says "Great" - How do we stand?
LARRY SAYS - "WERE 4 GAMES STUCK" !!!

WORDS CAN'T DESCRIBE HOW "GREAT" BUDDY PLAYED IN THIS GUYS & DOLLS POOLROOM IN SHREVEPORT, LA. THE OWNER "RED BOX" (I think), HAD A ROOM MADE FOR BUDDY - "BUDDY'S ROOM" AND IT WAS THE BEST EQUIPMENT & CONDITIONS THAT $ COULD BUY.
IN MY OPINION - I SAW "PERFECT NINE-BALL" BY BUDDY MORE THAN ONCE AND FOR HOURS AT A TIME !!!

While there once - I went to lunch/dinner (at Morrisons) with Eddie Taylor & Jersey Red. (Oh, How I wished I would have had a tape recorder of the stories that went on for about 2 hours - I don't think I said 3 words the whole time). Buddy might not know this but the both of them agreed that Buddy was playing Nine-Ball better than either of them had ever seen.
JUST THINK OF THAT COMING FROM THESE TWO !!!

Now, I heard Buddy say yesterday (announcing at the US Open) that he admired "Wimpy" (Luther Lassiter) as playing Nine-Ball, a level better than anyone else at Johnston City in those days. He also said that Wimpy was a Class Act & A Great Gentelman of the game.

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE - (For those Days).

BUT FOR MY $$$ - "BUDDY" PLAYED THE BEST NINE-BALL I HAVE EVER SEEN.
& I've seen a lotta Nine-Ball in the last 44 years.

ps - After my conversation with Larry that night - I called off my bet - waited about 20 min. and called a local player I knew. - I had him bet $25 a game ON BUDDY with some railbirds.
"NOW I WAS MAKING $$$ IN OKLAHOMA CITY - & - SHREVEPORT"!

Great stuff here! I will now admit that Tom hustled me to play One Pocket in Dayton for fifty a game. He beat the shit out of me, like 500 or so!

I had just made a $6,000 score (Yes really, and not at pool) a few days earlier so I was holding good. The most money I ever made before my big Tonk game in Dallas.

 

[Mensabum]

Tales of old from great posters, a few that we still have. Some greats that aren't active anymore too, on AZB or in the pool world.

A glimpse of AZB twenty years ago. What it once was and could be again!

Hu

Being from St
Louis and a fly on the wall for many of these matchups back when we had players here, Afton was a small, intimate hall that saw world class players often.
Cue and Cushion as well. The pit table was immaculate. Owners are some of the finest people on the planet!!

 

[Jimmy_Betmore]

Great stuff here! I will now admit that Tom hustled me to play One Pocket in Dayton for fifty a game. He beat the shit out of me, like 500 or so!

I had just made a $6,000 score (Yes really, and not at pool) a few days earlier so I was holding good. The most money I ever made before my big Tonk game in Dallas.

Tonk... Brother I haven't heard anyone mention that game in forever. Hell, I don't even know if I've ran into anyone besides my old buddies from a little pool room that used to be in South Dayton that even know what it is. But there was easily just as much Tonk being played in that room as there was pool. We had one dude who literally lived in the room for a while who wore an STP hat and decided it didn't stand for "Science, Technology, and Performance." It stood for Super Tonk Player.

Thanks for the memories.

 

[garczar]

Never even heard of tonk til a buddy learned it in jail. He said the brothers would play it all day long for cigs/commissary shit.

 

[jay helfert]

Tonk... Brother I haven't heard anyone mention that game in forever. Hell, I don't even know if I've ran into anyone besides my old buddies from a little pool room that used to be in South Dayton that even know what it is. But there was easily just as much Tonk being played in that room as there was pool. We had one dude who literally lived in the room for a while who wore an STP hat and decided it didn't stand for "Science, Technology, and Performance." It stood for Super Tonk Player.

View attachment 799217

Thanks for the memories.

My biggest score in a poolroom was at Rusty's in Dallas. I got hustled to play by Stormin' Norman, the owner of multiple bingo parlors. We played all night and I cleaned him and his partner out. They had to borrow 100 to pay me for the last game. I had over 7K stashed in all my pockets. The full story is in Pool Wars.

I learned how to play Tonk in Dayton.

 

[book collector]

Tales of old from great posters, a few that we still have. Some greats that aren't active anymore too, on AZB or in the pool world.

A glimpse of AZB twenty years ago. What it once was and could be again!

Hu

Yes ,a lot of the people who actually witnessed a lot of the matches are gone, some who were there might not remember everything perfectly , but there is no shortage of guys who were not there, barely knew anybody that was there, and have no clue, and are so negative ,that the real guys, get fed up with being insulted and leave. 5 years goes by mighty quick, and by then, they, and all their stories are gone forever. Its too bad , I think the lack of history, hurts pool ,compared to other sports, look at Nascar. Does anyone think there were not crooks, in golf? Or bowling, I have a newspaper article from the end of the 1800s that said "if we don't get the cheats out of bowling , it will not be a sport in 20 years". lol I just read about the tonk games . I used to play tonk and 10 card gin rummy, pretty fair.

 

[ShootingArts]

Yes ,a lot of the people who actually witnessed a lot of the matches are gone, some who were there might not remember everything perfectly , but there is no shortage of guys who were not there, barely knew anybody that was there, and have no clue, and are so negative ,that the real guys, get fed up with being insulted and leave. 5 years goes by mighty quick, and by then, they, and all their stories are gone forever. Its too bad , I think the lack of history, hurts pool ,compared to other sports, look at Nascar. Does anyone think there were not crooks, in golf? Or bowling, I have a newspaper article from the end of the 1800s that said "if we don't get the cheats out of bowling , it will not be a sport in 20 years". lol

I used to worry about all the idiots in the next generation, especially the ones my children dated. Some of the earliest writings of man are about the idiots of the next generation! Then I realized that all these idiots produced grandchildren for me that were all geniuses so I don't worry so much.

I wish the stories could survive but I think the pool way of life is gone forever. I found a last vestige when I stumbled on Buffalo's on Airline. A rundown old building in a badder part of town and plenty of people ready to relieve you of excess cash! It jerked me back fifty years, it was great!

Now Buff has one of the greatest pool halls in the nation but it isn't the same. I haven't been to his newest place but it was fantastic before he bought it and he is one of the top few pool hall operators I have ever met. I'm sure it is wonderful, not sure it is a pool hall.

Before covid they were opening new "pool halls" around here. All seven footers or seven footers with one nine. Bright and clean and no place for an old scuffer like me. I wanted to play, I came to play, I walked around looking lost a few minutes and wandered back out.

Hu