No one ever said he was a genius....
Can Pro players get jobs and still compete?
- Thread starter PETROBOY
- Start date
No one ever said he was a genius....
this is going to be a really bad quote, but yáll remember Sam Kinison, right?
see this? it's S-A-N-D!!!! it was SAND one THOUSAND yrs ago. it'll BE sand @ 1000 yrs....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoJ2BzSRU
(this corroborates letto1776's point w/ China - follow the money)
I know. Everybody brings up players from the '50s and '60s. Heck, Cigarettes cost 25 cents a pack in the '60s, and a gallon of gasoline was 25 cents, and if you filled your tank, you got a free set of steak knives. :grin-square:
Times have changed since the era of players working full-time and playing pool.
Plus, the pool tournaments today pay the EXACT SAME AMOUNT as the pool tournaments of the '60s. Yet, the cost of living has at least quadrupled.
So has inflation. 25cents went a longer way back then than it does now.
This is true. When McDonald's first came in existence, one could get a hamburger, French fries, and a milkshake for under a dollar. That was in 1960-ish era around my neck of the woods.
Attachments
Don't forget the player who dumped in the finals and metaphorically took a giant steaming dump on the sports books willing to take bets on them.
I am hesitant to post this, but I've been told from someone very reputable that several pros were offered the opportunity a few years back to tour around the country (all expenses paid plus pay) to help promote the sport. Guaranteed money was there and something beneficial for all stakeholders in pool was on the table....and it got turned down. It's tough to continue to find the compassion for them when you hear of such things. 
Here is my thoughts --
Let me prephrase all of this that I have the utmost respect for the skill level of the pro level player. For some it was god given talent that they fine tuned, for others they put in hours of hard work to get achieve their high ability. Both I can and do respect.
However, if someone in the last decade took it upon themselves to not have a job and devote themselves to pool, they did so foolishly. Pool is what it is. There is limited opportunity for a few people to make a living substanial enough for them to have what is deemed as a life in this country. There is no great messiah and everytime the players are tricked into thinking there is one, it puts them back 3 steps.
The players blind belief over the past decade that this messiah will come or is here, is why pool is where it is today. When KT came on board and started with the $300K paydays, $500K paydays -- if a group of players would have stood up and said "this is too much, lower the payouts for now and escrow the rest of the money. We don't need one person winning $300k in one week for our sport to survive at it's current level" then maybe the IPT and KT would still be around. Instead, they blew their wad in less than one season.
History has been repeated with Bonus Ball.
This is why I think the players are put into positions that some of us deem as not admirable. They chop up money, they make deals. In turn, they lose respect from their fan base. It is a cycle that keeps getting repeated.
All this being said, today's Pro unless you are a small handful such as SVB, Mika, Darren, etc - who have both the skill set and the sponsorship - you better have a real job and make it work. Or a family that loves and supports you to help you live your dream.
Pool needs to grow in baby steps - not in giant leaps that have you jumping off a cliff. It simply doesn't work.
If I wake up tomorrow and declare that I want to be a pro pool player and make it my dream, I am not being honest with myself. This has nothing to do with my lack of ability. It has to do with the lack of funding within the sport and lack of realization that I could be a pro in a sport that has enough funding to support my life style. It would be just the same if I woke up and said I want to be a pro in the sport of sculling. There are only a handful of people who can qualify but there is no money in the sport so they better have a real job.
One of my best friends is a 9 time champion in handball. Sports Illustrated did an article on him once and compared his skills and dominance to Michael Jordan. No one in the world could beat him for 12 years. But he knew the sport was what it was. He didn't a mass any fortune. He now has himself a job so he could live the life he wanted to and now plays in the occasional tournament. When he is around the sport, he is treated like Efren by his peers. But in the world today, handball or pool is not a top tier sport with funding. It simply is what it is.
Watchez is the teacher.
Let me prephrase all of this that I have the utmost respect for the skill level of the pro level player. For some it was god given talent that they fine tuned, for others they put in hours of hard work to get achieve their high ability. Both I can and do respect.
However, if someone in the last decade took it upon themselves to not have a job and devote themselves to pool, they did so foolishly. Pool is what it is. There is limited opportunity for a few people to make a living substanial enough for them to have what is deemed as a life in this country. There is no great messiah and everytime the players are tricked into thinking there is one, it puts them back 3 steps.
The players blind belief over the past decade that this messiah will come or is here, is why pool is where it is today. When KT came on board and started with the $300K paydays, $500K paydays -- if a group of players would have stood up and said "this is too much, lower the payouts for now and escrow the rest of the money. We don't need one person winning $300k in one week for our sport to survive at it's current level" then maybe the IPT and KT would still be around. Instead, they blew their wad in less than one season.
History has been repeated with Bonus Ball.
This is why I think the players are put into positions that some of us deem as not admirable. They chop up money, they make deals. In turn, they lose respect from their fan base. It is a cycle that keeps getting repeated.
All this being said, today's Pro unless you are a small handful such as SVB, Mika, Darren, etc - who have both the skill set and the sponsorship - you better have a real job and make it work. Or a family that loves and supports you to help you live your dream.
Pool needs to grow in baby steps - not in giant leaps that have you jumping off a cliff. It simply doesn't work.
If I wake up tomorrow and declare that I want to be a pro pool player and make it my dream, I am not being honest with myself. This has nothing to do with my lack of ability. It has to do with the lack of funding within the sport and lack of realization that I could be a pro in a sport that has enough funding to support my life style. It would be just the same if I woke up and said I want to be a pro in the sport of sculling. There are only a handful of people who can qualify but there is no money in the sport so they better have a real job.
One of my best friends is a 9 time champion in handball. Sports Illustrated did an article on him once and compared his skills and dominance to Michael Jordan. No one in the world could beat him for 12 years. But he knew the sport was what it was. He didn't a mass any fortune. He now has himself a job so he could live the life he wanted to and now plays in the occasional tournament. When he is around the sport, he is treated like Efren by his peers. But in the world today, handball or pool is not a top tier sport with funding. It simply is what it is.
Watchez is the teacher.
Watchez is the teacher
Banks
Banned
That was a pretty big game in Denmark. My jaw dropped and I couldn't believe that's what they had on TV. A year or two later, I was looking at a used Ranchero on a lot and noticed the guy had an accent.. he had been a handball coach in Denmark! One of the regulars on the block where I hang out had been a badminton player. Crazy world out there, I tell ya.
It's also difficult to tell who exactly has a hard time making money as a pro and who just doesn't know what it means to not blow every dollar you have. Maybe it's a recurring theme for pool.. get money, spend it.
Banks - not to hijack, but was that Team Handball, the Olympic sport? I am a little confused by your post. There are no Denmark handball champions that I know of. The sport is huge in Ireland, the US (both Americans and has a large player base that are Mexican).
My friend is a handball champion -- 4 walls on a court (like raquetball but with your hands). Game is played in a lot of other forms -- one wall like you see in NY. Or three walls as you see in California or Florida.
My friend is a handball champion -- 4 walls on a court (like raquetball but with your hands). Game is played in a lot of other forms -- one wall like you see in NY. Or three walls as you see in California or Florida.
Banks
Banned
Oh, yeah, my bad. That was the team stuff. Kinda funny to watch. I knew I was forgetting something.. my lunch was a bit late.
Hunger is the Teacher.
The question posed in the original post is a difficult one. In the old days, most of the top players had jobs, several of them Hall of Famers. Of course,there weren't many tournaments. In America, pro pool has come full circle and there are, once again, very few events. Logically then, more and more pros will decide that having a job makes sense and pool will become a means of supplementing their income, not the main source of their income.
Yes, you can have a job and still be a top player, but it will take great sacrifices and many won't choose to make those sacrifices. In the end, pros must decide for the,selves. More than a few make ends meet by teaching pool, owning poolrooms, or doing exhibitions, but the rest have a tough choice.
Gambling as a means of supplementing one's income from pool is no longer a long-term solution for many pros, either.
Today's pros have it tough, but like people in most professions, they must manage their time and finances skillfully to make ends meet.
Yes, you can have a job and still be a top player, but it will take great sacrifices and many won't choose to make those sacrifices. In the end, pros must decide for the,selves. More than a few make ends meet by teaching pool, owning poolrooms, or doing exhibitions, but the rest have a tough choice.
Gambling as a means of supplementing one's income from pool is no longer a long-term solution for many pros, either.
Today's pros have it tough, but like people in most professions, they must manage their time and finances skillfully to make ends meet.
Not a normal job. A pro could keep in peak level form working at a slow pool hall working the till and playing tons of pool when they get spare moments between getting people another coke or checking out peoples tables. Mike D's job sounds like the type that would give you a lot of spare time and the freedom to get out there and play when you need to.
A normal 8-5 job Monday to Friday with 3 weeks of vacation a year? No chance can anyone maintain a true top end professional level of play doing that nor could you go to all of the events you need to play in order to actually be considered a "pro".
Then there are the "other" jobs which make the above look like a vacation. My work day starts with my jumping on a site bus that drives me to a mine at 5:46am. I get to work, put in 12 hours, get back on that bus and get off of it back in town at ~8:50pm. And I do that for 20-24 days straight. No pro pool player is doing my job and remaining a pro pool player, I assure you of that.
A normal 8-5 job Monday to Friday with 3 weeks of vacation a year? No chance can anyone maintain a true top end professional level of play doing that nor could you go to all of the events you need to play in order to actually be considered a "pro".
Then there are the "other" jobs which make the above look like a vacation. My work day starts with my jumping on a site bus that drives me to a mine at 5:46am. I get to work, put in 12 hours, get back on that bus and get off of it back in town at ~8:50pm. And I do that for 20-24 days straight. No pro pool player is doing my job and remaining a pro pool player, I assure you of that.
Job for Pro
That would make it a job! Part of the allure of pool is to win money and play the game.
I am hesitant to post this, but I've been told from someone very reputable that several pros were offered the opportunity a few years back to tour around the country (all expenses paid plus pay) to help promote the sport. Guaranteed money was there and something beneficial for all stakeholders in pool was on the table....and it got turned down. It's tough to continue to find the compassion for them when you hear of such things.
That would make it a job! Part of the allure of pool is to win money and play the game.
Average AZ member. American, not Canadian.
Get out of High School.
1. Enlists and serves Country.
2. Continues education.
3. Enters the work force.
Marries
Starts a family
Saves to pay for childrens future education and pay off the mortgage. Maybe enuff left over at the end of the year to take the Family on a small vacation. Either way, tries to do the best for his Family and himself.
Retired or nearing retirement.
Mortgage is finally paid off or close. Kids are finished College and out of the house.
FINALLY.
Light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe a little left over to start enjoying some of the things that were put on the back burner for many years.
Pro Players.
We have all read the accounts of Road Players and Hustlers. Thousands and tens of thousands scored and spent at the Casinos and Race Tracks and living the High Life and broke in 2 days with just enuff for fuel and food to the next town and hopefully, another big score.
Do it all over again.
Present Day.
Pro players had fun all their lives while others doing the average working guy thing.
Pro Players logging in AZ just long enuff to ask to be Staked for their next fun jig down the road.
What, I worked all my life while you guys led the Life of Riley and now you are asking for a piece of MY PIE.
Sounds like the story of the Grass Hopper and the Ant, doesn't it.
And people wonder why Pro Players get not so much a warm welcome when they come Crumbing.
The last 25 bucks, and I realize 100% that it wasn't much, just trying to help a guy out that got screwed from BB, drank my money up in a bar and missed his match. He did that to many others.
Great PR wasn't it.
I also sent a guy 25 so his son and Friends could go to Church Camp.
Which made me feel better?
I also took my share of my Teams Vegas Winnings last year and sent it to an AZ member who was down and out.
Ya know what, this guy sent me a PM thanking me so genuinely that it brought tears to my eyes.
What was it, the last guy that was asking to be Staked for 24 hundred. Then the story came out that he had scored large and spent it all on a Craps Table.
These Pros don't hang out and help any AZers. The only time they log in is when they have something for sale or are asking for a favor. Never to be heard from again until the next time.
There was the Vegas Dump, The Pro Camel Tour, and how many others.
Ha, like I will send more money out. Never again. I am very comfy now with close to
a 1/4 mill in the account, one Taxi plate thats worth 300K, and a grand coming in every 2 weeks.
I earned it. Now I will spend it all on myself.
Sorry, not meant to be a brag. Just that I worked since I was 12, busted up my body and paying the price for that.
I donate to the Humane Society.
I for one am sick of this crap, people telling others that they are running Real People off the board, being negative and being accused of being Haters.
This is a Billiard Site where we enjoy many things, chatting about pool, league, life, buying cues, and making friendships.
Who ever said that part of the deal was to support Pro Players. I certainly didn't.
Get out of High School.
1. Enlists and serves Country.
2. Continues education.
3. Enters the work force.
Marries
Starts a family
Saves to pay for childrens future education and pay off the mortgage. Maybe enuff left over at the end of the year to take the Family on a small vacation. Either way, tries to do the best for his Family and himself.
Retired or nearing retirement.
Mortgage is finally paid off or close. Kids are finished College and out of the house.
FINALLY.
Light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe a little left over to start enjoying some of the things that were put on the back burner for many years.
Pro Players.
We have all read the accounts of Road Players and Hustlers. Thousands and tens of thousands scored and spent at the Casinos and Race Tracks and living the High Life and broke in 2 days with just enuff for fuel and food to the next town and hopefully, another big score.
Do it all over again.
Present Day.
Pro players had fun all their lives while others doing the average working guy thing.
Pro Players logging in AZ just long enuff to ask to be Staked for their next fun jig down the road.
What, I worked all my life while you guys led the Life of Riley and now you are asking for a piece of MY PIE.
Sounds like the story of the Grass Hopper and the Ant, doesn't it.
And people wonder why Pro Players get not so much a warm welcome when they come Crumbing.
The last 25 bucks, and I realize 100% that it wasn't much, just trying to help a guy out that got screwed from BB, drank my money up in a bar and missed his match. He did that to many others.
Great PR wasn't it.
I also sent a guy 25 so his son and Friends could go to Church Camp.
Which made me feel better?
I also took my share of my Teams Vegas Winnings last year and sent it to an AZ member who was down and out.
Ya know what, this guy sent me a PM thanking me so genuinely that it brought tears to my eyes.
What was it, the last guy that was asking to be Staked for 24 hundred. Then the story came out that he had scored large and spent it all on a Craps Table.
These Pros don't hang out and help any AZers. The only time they log in is when they have something for sale or are asking for a favor. Never to be heard from again until the next time.
There was the Vegas Dump, The Pro Camel Tour, and how many others.
Ha, like I will send more money out. Never again. I am very comfy now with close to
a 1/4 mill in the account, one Taxi plate thats worth 300K, and a grand coming in every 2 weeks.
I earned it. Now I will spend it all on myself.
Sorry, not meant to be a brag. Just that I worked since I was 12, busted up my body and paying the price for that.
I donate to the Humane Society.
I for one am sick of this crap, people telling others that they are running Real People off the board, being negative and being accused of being Haters.
This is a Billiard Site where we enjoy many things, chatting about pool, league, life, buying cues, and making friendships.
Who ever said that part of the deal was to support Pro Players. I certainly didn't.
Last edited:
Doobie post. Sorry.
Last edited:
Nobody needs to demean pro players, a lot of it is self inflicted...
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=336851
Darn right it is Buddy. And Ray is busy with his wisk and dust pan trying to sweep that one under the rug, all the while giving members shit for supposedly running Real People off the site.
So yer supposed to take a Hooping while thinking that you are trying to help, and when it goes South, its everyones fault except the perpetrators.
Ummm, someone still doesn't get it.
So, at a later date, someone comes onto AZ with a legitimate cause and asks for donations. This person gets tarred and feathered for someone elses doing in the past.
Who is really chasing people from the site? Us, or the scammers that had their way before.
I believe that I know the answer, others maybe not at this time.
So yer supposed to take a Hooping while thinking that you are trying to help, and when it goes South, its everyones fault except the perpetrators.
Ummm, someone still doesn't get it.
So, at a later date, someone comes onto AZ with a legitimate cause and asks for donations. This person gets tarred and feathered for someone elses doing in the past.
Who is really chasing people from the site? Us, or the scammers that had their way before.
I believe that I know the answer, others maybe not at this time.
Last edited: