Can You Beat Yu Ram Cha???????????

[kvinbrwr]

That is what I figured with Iris, she played at the top level in female cue sports and was not making it so I think she just quit. Imagine being in Manila and saying I just need to go to the US and I will make the money, you get here and pay a ton of money in expenses and have to win the whole thing just to make a few bucks. I do not believe she plays anymore.

I know man. Any other sport you see a kid show talent and determination, you gotta support and encourage them. At pool its almost as if you owe them a warning to get another plan.

Take Bartrum for example. What is he (just to grab a number), the 50th best player in the US (without dedicating his life to it doing it like a job because he can't make a living at it)? The 50th player on the PGA Tour earned $427,000 PLUS endorsements last year. Bartrum is scraping floors. Tough tough tough way to go.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Really now.. We all know there is NO real money in pool. I love to watch Cha play, along with many others.. My hat is off to them. I can only think they are following their dreams, existing on pool money, being champions at a sport they love. I know I am not playing in front of a crowd, people holding signs with my name on them.. Why not just support them, and our sport? I know if I was Cha , and read this thread I would feel that many were trying to tear me down.. I say play hard, give it your best,because life IS too short! -B :thumbup:

I agree, she plays great and I respect all the ladies who are out there playing in the WPBA and around the world actually. Yu Ram along with many of the pro ladies can the majority of people on here, but comparing the lady pro to the male pro is apples to oranges as we all know. If anyone think Allison Fisher can beat Shane then they are out of their mind even if she got the 7 out. Like I said I would love to see a TAR match with a female vs male pro with some weight involved, it would be enlightening to most who do not know the score. I spoke with a female pro and she told me she aspires to play like the top men out there in the game, aggressive run out pool and patterns.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Really now.. We all know there is NO real money in pool. I love to watch Cha play, along with many others.. My hat is off to them. I can only think they are following their dreams, existing on pool money, being champions at a sport they love. I know I am not playing in front of a crowd, people holding signs with my name on them.. Why not just support them, and our sport? I know if I was Cha , and read this thread I would feel that many were trying to tear me down.. I say play hard, give it your best,because life IS too short! -B :thumbup:

I think Yu Ram Cha makes a lot of very real money.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I dont see why you are comparing them all to shane, none of that has anything to do with tournament ratings. Playing for cash is entirely different. Can you show me some tournaments where the top woman in the world are being rated as lowly A's? Cause like, I want in on the calcutta!

Most female pros if they came to Arizona with our rating system would be rated 8s or 9s, Iris was a 9, Angel Paglia was an 8 who just got bumped to a 9, some female pros are 7s. So by tournament ratings here in Arizona most female pros rank from a C player to an A player with some exceptions. Our rating system has 7s equal to a C player, 8s are B players and 9s and 10s are A players. Mitch Ellerman for example is a 10-1 and Scott Frost is a 10-2, if Efren or Shane came they would be a 10-2 which is our highest rating.

I think Karen Corr did win a Joss Tour event but I could be mistaken. I am comparing them to Shane because that is our highest bar for men's pro pool in the US, they can be compared with many of the men's pros, the difference is bigger then most think. Some said that someone like Allison could play a top male pro if she had a neutral breaker, I say no chance in hell. What you see on ESPN is a highlight reel, those ladies miss, they also run packages too but they are nowhere and will never be in the league of the men. I respect on occasion a lady runs 100 in 14.1, but I doubt we will see the day they run 300.

 

[JB Cases]

If any top pro - or ANYONE on the Earth wants to give Kelly Fisher the five out in Ten Ball or Nine Ball I will bet everything on Kelly. Not one male professional player will beat Kelly in ahead sets with that weight. If anyone wants to gamble with Kelly her backer is well known in North Carolina and I am sure that some kind of game can be made.

On here there is a lot of speculation that top pros can spot any of the women huge weight and rob them.....all I have to say about that is that none of them are beating down the door to give Kelly Fisher a lot of weight for a lot of money. Now I am not saying I will back Kelly against anyone - but there are people who will back Kelly and who will make a game based on how they feel she should play.

Kelly has given up pretty good weight to decent players and won some and lost some. I don't know the details of all her matches but I can't recall her getting weight and losing.

IF I were a multi-millionaire then I would TRY an experiment where I take Kelly on the road and get her some real gritty seasoning the old-school way. We would travel across America and play everyone with one major stipulation. For the matches she loses they would have to agree to and freeze up the money to play a rematch no later than a year from the first match. I would want to see if Kelly could improve by playing under all conditions and whether she could step up her game to take off anyone who happened to beat her. I think she could. And I think that most of the top women pros could as well.

One MAJOR reason why women AS A GROUP are weaker than the men as a group is simply a numbers thing. There are simply far more men playing. So the overall level of the women is lower. It's like comparing the skill level of say 15 year olds who play pool with the skill level of adults who play pool. Overall the skill level of the adults will be much higher even though there will be a few 15 year olds who play at a high level.

The odds of any given 15 year old or any given female being "better" than the best male player in that situation is incredibly against them. That said the top women today are run out players.

They can usually get out in any open rack and most of us can't say the same. Oh we like to think we can and truthfully we probably have enough knowledge to get out but we don't execute. The top women can execute. They are not the same players who played on the WPBA 20 years ago. These women are WAY stronger.

I can't beat Yu Ram Cha. I can't beat Kelly. I don't know how far down the ranking lists I would have to go to beat any of the ranked women players.

I know this: The first game of one pocket I played against Chen Xue, a top Chinese player, she back cut a ridiculous shot to make the ball and run into the stack and ran 8 and out. Knowing nothing of one pocket moves or strategy she simply relied on the one move she knew would win the game - 8 and out!

Allison Fisher raised the level for women in America and around the world. Now the Chinese are pushing the rest of the world again to step it up. Kelly and Allison have already proven in the past year that they can step up to meet that challenge and beat the Chinese on their own turf. This will not stop though because now that the Chinese have arrived with their super discipline and monster games every one else also has to step up their games to compete. These women are all PLAYERS.

More than 90% of the people on this forum CAN NOT beat them consistently. It takes a really good player to hang with them and beat them.

 

[Fast Lenny]

If any top pro - or ANYONE on the Earth wants to give Kelly Fisher the five out in Ten Ball or Nine Ball I will bet everything on Kelly. Not one male professional player will beat Kelly in ahead sets with that weight. If anyone wants to gamble with Kelly her backer is well known in North Carolina and I am sure that some kind of game can be made.

On here there is a lot of speculation that top pros can spot any of the women huge weight and rob them.....all I have to say about that is that none of them are beating down the door to give Kelly Fisher a lot of weight for a lot of money. Now I am not saying I will back Kelly against anyone - but there are people who will back Kelly and who will make a game based on how they feel she should play.

Kelly has given up pretty good weight to decent players and won some and lost some. I don't know the details of all her matches but I can't recall her getting weight and losing.

IF I were a multi-millionaire then I would TRY an experiment where I take Kelly on the road and get her some real gritty seasoning the old-school way. We would travel across America and play everyone with one major stipulation. For the matches she loses they would have to agree to and freeze up the money to play a rematch no later than a year from the first match. I would want to see if Kelly could improve by playing under all conditions and whether she could step up her game to take off anyone who happened to beat her. I think she could. And I think that most of the top women pros could as well.

One MAJOR reason why women AS A GROUP are weaker than the men as a group is simply a numbers thing. There are simply far more men playing. So the overall level of the women is lower. It's like comparing the skill level of say 15 year olds who play pool with the skill level of adults who play pool. Overall the skill level of the adults will be much higher even though there will be a few 15 year olds who play at a high level.

The odds of any given 15 year old or any given female being "better" than the best male player in that situation is incredibly against them. That said the top women today are run out players.

They can usually get out in any open rack and most of us can't say the same. Oh we like to think we can and truthfully we probably have enough knowledge to get out but we don't execute. The top women can execute. They are not the same players who played on the WPBA 20 years ago. These women are WAY stronger.

I can't beat Yu Ram Cha. I can't beat Kelly. I don't know how far down the ranking lists I would have to go to beat any of the ranked women players.

I know this: The first game of one pocket I played against Chen Xue, a top Chinese player, she back cut a ridiculous shot to make the ball and run into the stack and ran 8 and out. Knowing nothing of one pocket moves or strategy she simply relied on the one move she knew would win the game - 8 and out!

Allison Fisher raised the level for women in America and around the world. Now the Chinese are pushing the rest of the world again to step it up. Kelly and Allison have already proven in the past year that they can step up to meet that challenge and beat the Chinese on their own turf. This will not stop though because now that the Chinese have arrived with their super discipline and monster games every one else also has to step up their games to compete. These women are all PLAYERS.

More than 90% of the people on this forum CAN NOT beat them consistently. It takes a really good player to hang with them and beat them.

Would you bet with the 7 out? I consider Kelly a top 10 female pro and maybe a top 5 but the 7 out against a top male pro in 9 ball is an illusion, it means nothing as they are out on an open table. I would love to see a game happen and there people who can make it happen also. I would be interested in what some of our male pros on here would give a female pro, perhaps Chris or Donnie will let us know what they will give or opinions on what the top men can give. What would you want Donnie or Chris to give up to Kelly playing 9 ball or 10 ball where you would bet?

 

[whitewolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-IhIAH_Y4M

Just my take on this match - Y Ram Cha is not even close to being in the top 10 women players. Her safety play was bordering amatuerist.

Addtionally, I am surprised at how bad SVB played. The world's best 9 ball players never play that bad. Awful, considering how much he practices and plays.

I would take Bartram in a heartbeat against her. Now Jasmin is a different story.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Just my take on this match - Y Ram Cha is not even close to being in the top 10 women players. Her safety play was bordering amatuerist.

Addtionally, I am surprised at how bad SVB played. The world's best 9 ball players never play that bad. Awful, considering how much he practices and plays.

I would take Bartram in a heartbeat against her. Now Jasmin is a different story.

That match is 3 years old. Yu Ram Cha is presently ranked 9th the the world.

 

[JB Cases]

Would you bet with the 7 out? I consider Kelly a top 10 female pro and maybe a top 5 but the 7 out against a top male pro in 9 ball is an illusion, it means nothing as they are out on an open table. I would love to see a game happen and there people who can make it happen also. I would be interested in what some of our male pros on here would give a female pro, perhaps Chris or Donnie will let us know what they will give or opinions on what the top men can give. What would you want Donnie or Chris to give up to Kelly playing 9 ball or 10 ball where you would bet?

I will say it like this. Kelly has a VERY STRONG backer. If he backs Kelly in a game then I will be happy to bet Kelly's side of it. They don't always win but I trust that her backer is putting her in games he feels good about.

So instead of me trying to make lines I will say that any of these guys can get played if they can work it out with Kelly's backer. I don't want to step on anyone's toes by stating my opinion on where I think that they should be matched up.

The pool grapevine knows who Kelly's backer is and anyone who wants to make a game can make one.

If Chris or Donnie or anyone wants to make a public offer then they can. I am not sure that Kelly's camp will respond in this forum but who knows.

I can say with total confidence that Donny or Chris nor any player on the Earth will be offering Kelly the five out in her lifetime as long as she can hold a cue. Not for anything real at least.

 

[Bambu]

Most female pros if they came to Arizona with our rating system would be rated 8s or 9s, Iris was a 9, Angel Paglia was an 8 who just got bumped to a 9, some female pros are 7s. So by tournament ratings here in Arizona most female pros rank from a C player to an A player with some exceptions. Our rating system has 7s equal to a C player, 8s are B players and 9s and 10s are A players. Mitch Ellerman for example is a 10-1 and Scott Frost is a 10-2, if Efren or Shane came they would be a 10-2 which is our highest rating.

I think Karen Corr did win a Joss Tour event but I could be mistaken. I am comparing them to Shane because that is our highest bar for men's pro pool in the US, they can be compared with many of the men's pros, the difference is bigger then most think. Some said that someone like Allison could play a top male pro if she had a neutral breaker, I say no chance in hell. What you see on ESPN is a highlight reel, those ladies miss, they also run packages too but they are nowhere and will never be in the league of the men. I respect on occasion a lady runs 100 in 14.1, but I doubt we will see the day they run 300.

All I can say is, the top ladies are gonna love you for this. They can refer to this post as confirmation as to their A status. Seriously though, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Charlie Hustle]

Just my take on this match - Y Ram Cha is not even close to being in the top 10 women players. Her safety play was bordering amatuerist.

Addtionally, I am surprised at how bad SVB played. The world's best 9 ball players never play that bad. Awful, considering how much he practices and plays.

I would take Bartram in a heartbeat against her. Now Jasmin is a different story.

Would you be willing to bet on Jasmin over Chris?

 

[kvinbrwr]

Here's my TAR match, Jasmin Ouschen vs Chris Bartrum. I have no idea what the line would be and I sort of doubt that Bartrum speculates for "funzies" like we all do. I don't think Mr Mills would like to travel and play in the TAR studio and we know Bartrum will.

Considering the popularity of the OMGWTF vs the what's his name guy match which was one of TAR's first broadcasts. Considering how poorly it went for Chris his first trip to the studio, he might be anxious to visit again.

Now all we need is:
a) someone to contact Jasmin
b) someone to arrange it around her schedule
c) someone to back her and work the line with Bartrum

hmmmmm, speculation might be easier.

Kevin

 

[Charlie Hustle]

Here's my TAR match, Jasmin Ouschen vs Chris Bartrum. I have no idea what the line would be and I sort of doubt that Bartrum speculates for "funzies" like we all do. I don't think Mr Mills would like to travel and play in the TAR studio and we know Bartrum will.

Considering the popularity of the OMGWTF vs the what's his name guy match which was one of TAR's first broadcasts. Considering how poorly it went for Chris his first trip to the studio, he might be anxious to visit again.

Now all we need is:
a) someone to contact Jasmin
b) someone to arrange it around her schedule
c) someone to back her and work the line with Bartrum

hmmmmm, speculation might be easier.

Kevin

First step would be asking what Chris thinks a fair game is...

 

[whitewolf]

Would you be willing to bet on Jasmin over Chris?

Good question. For the money and in a race to 10 ahead, I think Chris would grind out a victory. Something tells me Jasmin wouldn't have the stamina.

In general I would call it about even.

 

[kvinbrwr]

First step would be asking what Chris thinks a fair game is...

According to what Barton says, maybe the whole deal would be easier if it was Kelly Fisher vs Chris or Oscar. We both know that Chris and Oscar will step into the box (under some conditions), and Barton says Kelly has a US local backer and she has a higher world ranking than either of the women I started with so maybe this is something that could really happen. This could be the Riggs/King match of pool.

Again, I wonder what the line would have to be.

Oscar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin

 

[elvicash]

I cannot beat any top lady in a long ahead set so I cannot beat Yu Ram. I have played Jeanette Lee a lot of practice pool. She runs out like water and I rack alot. I think she is a top tier woman and in my opinion from what I have heard and seen she played better at one time than maybe all but the top 100 men at that time. Currently there is no woman that plays at that level. Jean B might have played better than that at one time relative to the men in her era, she was a different level than all other women at that time. So I am saying that currently at least 100 men in the world can beat any woman playing a long ahead set. I think any top woman is capable of beating any man in a given single tournament race.

The question is what is the difference between men and women at the highest level. There are men of small stature who have dominated and currently dominate so it is not height. Is it strength? I do not think it is desire. Is it the population of more men than women in pool so the best players are men, that has been suggested. The world may never know but I want to close with an as yet unasked question.




If Joan of Arc played pool would she beat Efren?

 

[Bambu]

1 on 1 for any substantial money is so different than a tournament setting. What ladies step up it for the cash would be a whole different thread, especially against a guy who plays well for money.

 

[JoeyA]

I cannot beat any top lady in a long ahead set so I cannot beat Yu Ram. I have played Jeanette Lee a lot of practice pool. She runs out like water and I rack alot. I think she is a top tier woman and in my opinion from what I have heard and seen she played better at one time than maybe all but the top 100 men at that time. Currently there is no woman that plays at that level. Jean B might have played better than that at one time relative to the men in her era, she was a different level than all other women at that time. So I am saying that currently at least 100 men in the world can beat any woman playing a long ahead set. I think any top woman is capable of beating any man in a given single tournament race.

The question is what is the difference between men and women at the highest level. There are men of small stature who have dominated and currently dominate so it is not height. Is it strength? I do not think it is desire. Is it the population of more men than women in pool so the best players are men, that has been suggested. The world may never know but I want to close with an as yet unasked question.




If Joan of Arc played pool would she beat Efren?

Joan of Arc would kick Efren's arse in a sword fight even though she didn't like to hurt others. On the pool table, I give it to Efren but only by a small margin.

 

[stuckart]

Most female pros if they came to Arizona with our rating system would be rated 8s or 9s, Iris was a 9, Angel Paglia was an 8 who just got bumped to a 9, some female pros are 7s. So by tournament ratings here in Arizona most female pros rank from a C player to an A player with some exceptions. Our rating system has 7s equal to a C player, 8s are B players and 9s and 10s are A players. Mitch Ellerman for example is a 10-1 and Scott Frost is a 10-2, if Efren or Shane came they would be a 10-2 which is our highest rating.

I completely agree with your assessment here Lenny.

I think Yu Ram would come in as a 9 rated player, and there are many men players in AZ rated as strong 9's or up.

Off the top of my head these players would be favorites: Scott, Mitch, Dennis O, Gus B, Jimmy M, Terry O., Tony C., Pancake, Bernie P, John Smith, Bobby, Bret H.... Probably tons more that I'm forgetting. Chuck Evans, Leil Gay (?). Last time I checked the rating sheet I thought there was something close to 100 players rated as 9's, another 30 or so as 10's and a few higher. Of course not all of them still play or live in AZ, but getting 10 that would be favorites is not that hard.

 

[LAlouie]

Beat her how?