Challenge of Champions dump

punter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am going to tell you all something ad this may or may not mean anything to anyone. I have spent a bit of time with Buddy and one time I decided to bring this topic up to him. I hadn't before as I am sure it isn't one of his favorite things to talk about after all these years. Remember this was just me and Buddy nobody else around. the chat went something like this.

Me: Buddy. I got to ask you something.
BH: Whats that?
Me: The Challenge of Champions against Mike LeBron, was it a dump?? You know people think it was. Now Buddy, this is for me only. I just want to know and I will never speak a word of it to ANYONE if you tell me you dumped and if I do you can call me a liar.
BH: Mark, it wasn't a dump, I dogged my brains out. That all.

I left it at that. Maybe he didn't trust me to tell me, maybe it's one of those secrets that you just can never tell anyone or maybe he was just telling the truth. He could have told me if it happened. Just my 2 cents for what its worth.

Having watched it a few times, it wasn't just one shot. There were several, including obvious attempts to scratch. Still think he dumped.
 

ironman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
!

I just did it in my first round last weekend, missing a REALLY easy shot, and also scratching in the side for NO REASON....I have no idea what I was thinking (or not thinking;)).

Then I won 12 straight matches after this, so you can't predict what will happen....I figured I'd lose one of my next three matches....but it wan't "in the stars".

Mike Sigel used to say "it's all in the stars" and after many years I think it may be "fate," or some other esoteric factor. 'The Game is the Teacher'
i canno think of a shot I have not seen missed in this game.

ASs myu old buddy Danny Medina used to say," I have missed many that were harder to miss than to make'!
 

John Novak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why would you write that when Buddy ended up winning that game? That was game 16 and made it 8-8.

I think he probably wanted to scratch in the side on the 7 ball shot. After LeBron missed the 8 and left it parked in front of the side pocket Hall had no choice but to win the game.

It's the 8/9 combo in game 17 that gives it away.

ONB

After missing the 8 ball he didnt think he would have left mike such a bad leave on the 8, so when mike missed it, buddy had no choice but to make it and send the game hill hill
 

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
people find it hard to admit to dumping

early mma (then known as nhb) had a fair amount of dumping

a well known fighter in his day took a huge dive for a huge paycheque on a huge stage, everyone knew but he still will not admit it to this day
 

SakuJack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
people find it hard to admit to dumping

early mma (then known as nhb) had a fair amount of dumping

a well known fighter in his day took a huge dive for a huge paycheque on a huge stage, everyone knew but he still will not admit it to this day

You talking about Coleman?

With early MMA it wasn't so much dumping as it was pro-wrestling style works. Seeing as how the sport in Japan spawned as an MMA/pro-wrestling hybrid, you can see why a lot of early fights were works and accept it a lot easier. I think at least.

In terms of this example, forget about the shots themselves. Buddy Hall's bad acting gives it away way more than the difficulty of the shots he misses.
 

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ya Coleman, lol

and it was a straight dump to Takada, I've spoken personally to almost everyone involved (attended alot of Pride events but not that one unofrtunatley and access to the fighters was pretty easy both in the arena and the hotels)

having said that, nobody said shit against Pride in the day ...Yakuza affiliations and what not, would be interesting to see if Mark fessed up now
 
I am going to tell you all something ad this may or may not mean anything to anyone. I have spent a bit of time with Buddy and one time I decided to bring this topic up to him. I hadn't before as I am sure it isn't one of his favorite things to talk about after all these years. Remember this was just me and Buddy nobody else around. the chat went something like this.

Me: Buddy. I got to ask you something.
BH: Whats that?
Me: The Challenge of Champions against Mike LeBron, was it a dump?? You know people think it was. Now Buddy, this is for me only. I just want to know and I will never speak a word of it to ANYONE if you tell me you dumped and if I do you can call me a liar.
BH: Mark, it wasn't a dump, I dogged my brains out. That all.

I left it at that. Maybe he didn't trust me to tell meJeez, imagine that., maybe it's one of those secrets that you just can never tell anyone or maybe he was just telling the truth. He could have told me if it happened.Yeah, because you would never repeat it. Just my 2 cents for what its worth.

This is one very funny post. The funniest conversation since Kay asked Michael if he whacked Carlo:smile:.

Kay: Did you do it?

Michael Corleone: No.


ONB
 
After missing the 8 ball he didnt think he would have left mike such a bad leave on the 8, so when mike missed it, buddy had no choice but to make it and send the game hill hill

True enough and I agree with you, as I wrote. I just don't think the 8 ball miss was telling enough. I've missed that particular shot before when trying to punch it and stay for the 9 ball and shooting
off the rail trying to keep the cueball from hitting the 9.

I still think he tried to scratch when shooting the 7 and then simply missed the 8 but we'll never know. Here's the 8 ball shot he missed.


hall1.jpg
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was there 10' away from the table. I KNOW what I saw and I also know the truth about this travesty. So please spare me the crap. It was a black mark on the sport!
 
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wahcheck

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks

I was there 10' away from the table. I KNOW what I saw and I also know the truth about this travesty. So please spare me the crap. It was a black mark on the sport!

Thanks Jay...........It is kinda amusing to see how people try to spin it off as something innocent........even the lesser skilled among us who play pool
could see something so obviously bad...I'm just referring to myself as the lesser skilled player, by the way.....
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
I know it's hard to believe, but even the very best players "dog it"....except for me

You can have your opinion, but is that the dump wows on.
You know buddy has won more than that, and playing on the square too, so the possibility of him actually losing $ would have been there, unlike the match with lebron.

Yes, everyone has a right to believe that every football game, boxing match and basketball game that they lose betting on is "a dump"......some humans even believe wilder things.

The fact is Buddy dogged it, and so did Mike....plain and simple.

The Facts are that "Vegas" continued putting the line up as if nothing happened and I saw that with my own eyes at a subsequent 'Challenge of Champions' that I PLAYED IN.

I have a feeling that there were "savers" made by many of the players, but believing the entire tournament was "rigged" is ludicrous, I know this is a fairy tale for sure.


I know it's hard to believe, but even the very best players "dog it"....except for me of course. ;)jk 'The Game is the Teacher'
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ok, I got no dog in this fight, but how did so many greats suddenly "dog it" in the same tournament, to the same guy ? The odds are astronomical, or LeBron has a horse shoe shoved so far up his arse, it will never see the light of day again :)
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes, everyone has a right to believe that every football game, boxing match and basketball game that they lose betting on is "a dump"......some humans even believe wilder things.

The fact is Buddy dogged it, and so did Mike....plain and simple.

The Facts are that "Vegas" continued putting the line up as if nothing happened and I saw that with my own eyes at a subsequent 'Challenge of Champions' that I PLAYED IN.

I have a feeling that there were "savers" made by many of the players, but believing the entire tournament was "rigged" is ludicrous, I know this is a fairy tale for sure.


I know it's hard to believe, but even the very best players "dog it"....except for me of course. ;)jk 'The Game is the Teacher'

I like your "fairy tale" as well. :)
My advice to you CJ is stick to what you know and not what you think.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Watch the misses Howard made on the 9 ball and the 2 ball.
Jumped right up acting like he wasn't supposed to miss.
PLEASE !!!!
Why would Howard and Hall shoot their brains out playing someone they could give the 7-ball or the 7-out ????
What's even more telling are the announcers predicting some strange things happen when there's so much money on the line.
And one of them actually said Lebron was dangerous.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
"those of you without blemish can cast the next stone"

Mike Lebron played just as well in short races as Hall, or Howard.....that's a fact.

I know the tournament wasn't a dump......just like I know how many times the ref racked for Earl in the Million Dollar Challenge. ;) :groucho:

Sometimes our memories aren't 100%, that's perfectly ok, after all we're human. Accusing Buddy and Mike of this with no proof is against everything America stands for.

After all we're all innocent until proven guilty......does anyone have any proof of these accusations?

I didn't think so, "those of you without blemish can cast the next stone" ...... and such is life, I'll stay out of this ridiculous "he said, she said" argument.

What's next, saying the founding fathers weren't honest? LoL





Watch the misses Howard made on the 9 ball and the 2 ball.
Jumped right up acting like he wasn't supposed to miss.
PLEASE !!!!
Why would Howard and Hall shoot their brains out playing someone they could give the 7-ball or the 7-out ????
What's even more telling are the announcers predicting some strange things happen when there's so much money on the line.
And one of them actually said Lebron was dangerous.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
i canno think of a shot I have not seen missed in this game.

ASs myu old buddy Danny Medina used to say," I have missed many that were harder to miss than to make'!

I know of players that are "treasured" on these forums that have done "business"......but at the end of the day it's their "Karma", not mine.....or anyone elses.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Mike Lebron played just as well in short races as Hall, or Howard.....that's a fact.



L

Must be why he was a long shot .
I don't have a proof Sonny Liston took a dive against Ali in their rematch.
He was not tried and convicted.
But, Liston dropping on a short right from someone who was not known for one-punch KO, then rolling over and then getting up while Jersey Joe was all confused of the count.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TADbnYQJg7w

PS
I believe Jay.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Mike Lebron also won the US OPEN......at 53 years old.

Must be why he was a long shot .
I don't have a proof Sonny Liston took a dive against Ali in their rematch.
He was not tried and convicted.
But, Liston dropping on a short right from someone who was not known for one-punch KO, then rolling over and then getting up while Jersey Joe was all confused of the count.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TADbnYQJg7w

PS
I believe Jay.



Mike Lebron also won the US OPEN......at 53 years old.

He's the one that first told me about Efren using TOI and I know for sure who he beat gambling on the road....he was a legendary player, and anyone that was on the "inside" of the gambling scene in the USA knew that for sure.
 
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