Nobody needs to prove it because it is common sense. If that match would've been call pocket efren would've called that pocket because it's more than obvious that he has a chance to make it in that pocket and no other.
Change in 9 ball rules
- Thread starter RafaReyes
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Nobody needs to prove it because it is common sense. If that match would've been call pocket efren would've called that pocket because it's more than obvious that he has a chance to make it in that pocket and no other.
Outstanding post!!
I don't believe there is any place for luck in such a game of precision. There will always be a lucky roll, bounce, etc in sports that is uncontrollable, but in a game that is based on precision and control, opportunities for luck should be eliminated as much as possible. It is beyond me why tournaments for 9 ball are still played with the slop rule in effect, especially on the 9. Nobody wants to see a close match decided by a slopped in 9 ball, which has happened many times. I see no reason not to remove the slop rule in 9 ball.
Lets make poker a "called hand" game too.............
Some games involve luck......deal with it.
Some games involve luck......deal with it.
Now, I realise that several posters have already mentioned 10-ball but I'll dwell on it a little more.
It seems that a lot of people really don't realise that 10-ball is a call-shot game and that there are some other rule differences to 9-ball as well. Some of this can be attributed to the lack of standardised rules(*). I remember someone saying that a lot of 10-ball in the US is played without calling shots.
To me, both games are just as fun to watch but I do agree that 10-ball's the better test of skill. The difference for a casual player is somewhat dismissable in my opinion (hell, I can hardly run one third of a 9-ball rack).
(*) Yes, I know that there are WPA rules for 10-ball but a lot of (major) tournaments seem to use some variation of them (that is, a variation of the _rules_, not just the regulations). Typical example would be pocketing the ten from the break - in some tournaments you win if you make the ten to any other pocket the back pockets.
It seems that a lot of people really don't realise that 10-ball is a call-shot game and that there are some other rule differences to 9-ball as well. Some of this can be attributed to the lack of standardised rules(*). I remember someone saying that a lot of 10-ball in the US is played without calling shots.
To me, both games are just as fun to watch but I do agree that 10-ball's the better test of skill. The difference for a casual player is somewhat dismissable in my opinion (hell, I can hardly run one third of a 9-ball rack).
(*) Yes, I know that there are WPA rules for 10-ball but a lot of (major) tournaments seem to use some variation of them (that is, a variation of the _rules_, not just the regulations). Typical example would be pocketing the ten from the break - in some tournaments you win if you make the ten to any other pocket the back pockets.
Luck plays its roll in any game. It just seems like it happens more often in 9 ball. But in a longer race on a 4.5 pocketed table, the player will beat the banger a HUGE percentage of the time. There have been times where Ive wished it were call shot, or even call the 9.... usually when I lost do to a hail mary shot that dropped the money ball.
The game is about percentages, and if Im playing somebody whos drilling flyers left and right, Ill stay with them as long as they are willing to lose. Because they will lose. The odds arent in their favor.
Now as far as any rule changes goes, I do believe you shouldnt be able to win on the break. The 9 should spot.
Chuck
The game is about percentages, and if Im playing somebody whos drilling flyers left and right, Ill stay with them as long as they are willing to lose. Because they will lose. The odds arent in their favor.
Now as far as any rule changes goes, I do believe you shouldnt be able to win on the break. The 9 should spot.
Chuck
There is an amount of luck in every sport... The golfers dont have to call off the tree back in the fairway right?? Soccer players don't have to call off the back of the other teams player into the goal right?? Hockey has plenty of lucky goals...if dont believe it just watch sports center...lol...it's about the only highlights u get on there...
But all in all every sport has its own amount of luck... Except Poker...its for real man!! LOL!!
But all in all every sport has its own amount of luck... Except Poker...its for real man!! LOL!!
Personally, I agree with the original poster that 9 Ball would be a better game if slop were eliminated. It certainly doesn't eliminate luck from the game, but reduces the luck factor significantly for weaker players. It's the same basic reasons why I prefer BCA 8 Ball to APA 8 Ball.
But rather than piss and moan about 9 Ball not being all it could be, I suggest switching to 10 Ball. It's all you ask for, no muss, no fuss.
But rather than piss and moan about 9 Ball not being all it could be, I suggest switching to 10 Ball. It's all you ask for, no muss, no fuss.
This past Saturday I played in my 2nd tourney in over 10 years. I beat one lower level player, and a high level player. I lost to a high level player, and when I got to the losers bracket, I played a mid level player that I should have beaten. Unfortunately for me, he shit the 9 in 3 times in a row, and then combo'd the 9 to go up 4-0. I lost a race to 5 in less than 15 minutes. Yup it sucked, and I was not happy, but I pulled my panties up and shrugged it off, because it was luck. He knew it, and I knew it, but thats the way it goes. I lost 5-0 and got booted from the tourney, but I played some pretty good pool. The way I see it, it all evens out in the end. If I get the raw end of the deal in this match, maybe Ill get the better end next time. Or maybe Im getting my luck somewhere else, like not getting killed by a drunk driver on the way home from the pool hall, lol. So I just say, pull your panties up, take a deep breath and freakin chill out! There are plenty of other games to play, so leave this one alone.
Joe
Joe
Thank you Pushout, but now that I think back on the years. the only time I ever complained about any rules in any game is whan I was stuck. When ahead, I love em. Funny how that works!!!!
One that really cracks me up is when watching abig match and say the rac is to 11. The xcore is hill-hill and all of a sudden the one racking satarts to complain about the winner break rule.
It looks like most players prefer winning a game by been lucky rather than really winning it. It's a shame, all left to say I guess is to wish good luck to those who prefer playing without the call pocket rule. I say at least make the winning shot (the 9 ball) a call pocket shot and leave the other how they are. I think this is a good middle point.
This is the only way I play 9 ball or 10 ball:
10 on the break spots
Call the 10
10 must be the last ball on the table, if you make a combo on the 10 spot it and keep shooting
Since I've started insisting on these rules, I've never lost a set that I didn't deserve to lose...
Truth!
Best statement I've seen on here in quite some time! Absolutely, positively, 100% true and respectable as well! :thumbup: Nicely said!
Best statement I've seen on here in quite some time! Absolutely, positively, 100% true and respectable as well! :thumbup: Nicely said!
When the winning shot, of a match, comes down to so-called luck, is it really luck. In the video, Efern played what he thought was a great safety. He was unlucky pocketing the eight-ball. Earl was in his glory when the eight fell. The Efern made a ridiculous hit and pocketed the ball. The hit took tremendous skill. What happened after that is one in a million. Earl took it well. He appreciated Efern's ability to make a hit on the shot.
When a close match, comes down to a lucky break, usually both players have had chances they may have squandered earlier in the match. I've been on both sides of the fence. I just hope things even out.
Everyone in the audience watching Earl and Efern, given a choice, would have wanted to be in Earl's place. Sometimes it takes great skill to get lucky.
Some people only notice luck when it goes against them. The rules of nine-ball have been changed enough. The people that kept changing them thought they could win if the rules were different. The best players are still going to win no matter what kind of rules they play by.
_______________________
http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
When a close match, comes down to a lucky break, usually both players have had chances they may have squandered earlier in the match. I've been on both sides of the fence. I just hope things even out.
Everyone in the audience watching Earl and Efern, given a choice, would have wanted to be in Earl's place. Sometimes it takes great skill to get lucky.
Some people only notice luck when it goes against them. The rules of nine-ball have been changed enough. The people that kept changing them thought they could win if the rules were different. The best players are still going to win no matter what kind of rules they play by.
_______________________
http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
I agree with the concept that the rolls will even out over time, but there's no telling WHEN they even out.
If you get a bad roll in the finals of a tournament that costs you the match, and you get a good roll in practice that doesn't matter at all, is that really "evening out"?
I agree Tom...but one might want to wonder about poker now. I read in the Chicago Tribune this morning, that the gov't has frozen the assets of some of the big poker sites (via their bank accounts at some of the major U.S. banks), due to the continuing debate over whether internet gambling is illegal.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
In our weekly 9-ball tourney, it's a race to 3, handicapped.....almost always, the better players are around at the end of the night.....sure, there are times when I get bad rolls.....a buddy beat me last week, winning two games with luck on the 7.....next match, same thing, two balls rolled into pockets, after a miss, to keep the next guy at the table....granted, two matches in a row like that are rare - it had never happened to me before, ever....but in both matches, I missed makeable shots, which I could have made to change the outcome....it's rare, incredibly rare, that I luck in a ball....either it goes, or it doesn't.....but you can't take luck out of 9-ball, or any pool game, or any game for that matter....
A guy makes 8 good shots, a couple of them really tough early in the rack.....he has a simple shot on the nine, shoots it down the rail with nice speed, and it jaws.....I mean, one of those jaws where we both look at each other in amazement that the ball didn't fall.....I can call the 9 all day, but I was lucky, and no real measure of skill or being better helped me win that game....
In ANY game, luck is a part.....the cue is rolling into perfect position, then hits a small piece of chalk, changing direction just enough to roll behind a blocker....a guy shoots a shot that he can only pocket 10% of the time, but you happen to play him that magical 1 in 10 time....these can happen in 14.1, 1pkt, or anywhere else......just because you called something or were trying to make it doesn't mean you weren't lucky....
I've seen Tiger Woods hit an incredible shot.....and then blush, laugh, and have a look on his face like he could not believe what he just did....Johnny Miller pipes in, stating that you could give Tiger a bucket of 100 balls and he'd not get one of them closer....hell, I can be playing a medium par 4 at 400 yards.....at 280 yards, there is a creek.....now my average drive is 260, but if I pipe one, I am in the drink....so I take 3wood....well, I hit it so pure, it flys 260....hits a hard spot in the fairway, bounds like it hit concrete, and into the water.....even playing safe, playing percentages, luck plays a part.....
Someone once told me that good luck is the meeting of preparation and opportunity....even in 9 ball, 99% of the shots are skill.....a very few involve luck or a roll....you've gotta hit the rack solid to make the nine on the break....you gotta pocket balls with skill and maintain cue control....unless you are on a 7 footer with buckets, then luck can play a larger roll
A guy makes 8 good shots, a couple of them really tough early in the rack.....he has a simple shot on the nine, shoots it down the rail with nice speed, and it jaws.....I mean, one of those jaws where we both look at each other in amazement that the ball didn't fall.....I can call the 9 all day, but I was lucky, and no real measure of skill or being better helped me win that game....
In ANY game, luck is a part.....the cue is rolling into perfect position, then hits a small piece of chalk, changing direction just enough to roll behind a blocker....a guy shoots a shot that he can only pocket 10% of the time, but you happen to play him that magical 1 in 10 time....these can happen in 14.1, 1pkt, or anywhere else......just because you called something or were trying to make it doesn't mean you weren't lucky....
I've seen Tiger Woods hit an incredible shot.....and then blush, laugh, and have a look on his face like he could not believe what he just did....Johnny Miller pipes in, stating that you could give Tiger a bucket of 100 balls and he'd not get one of them closer....hell, I can be playing a medium par 4 at 400 yards.....at 280 yards, there is a creek.....now my average drive is 260, but if I pipe one, I am in the drink....so I take 3wood....well, I hit it so pure, it flys 260....hits a hard spot in the fairway, bounds like it hit concrete, and into the water.....even playing safe, playing percentages, luck plays a part.....
Someone once told me that good luck is the meeting of preparation and opportunity....even in 9 ball, 99% of the shots are skill.....a very few involve luck or a roll....you've gotta hit the rack solid to make the nine on the break....you gotta pocket balls with skill and maintain cue control....unless you are on a 7 footer with buckets, then luck can play a larger roll
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Obviously as many have said, luck is a part of any game. What everyone else is saying, is that the rules should be set to minimize it. 8 ball does not allow it, 10 ball does not allow, why should 9 ball. Comparing games like poker and golf to pool as far as luck goes is silly. Other pool games do not allow slop rules that allow luck to factor so much, so why does 9 ball. Luck IS a factor in any game, but as a game of skill, it should be controlled as much as possible, especially when a simple rule change could control it.
Ball's don't spot that often, only the 9 spots in those rules.
I created a set of rules for a 15 ball rotation game where you get 1 point for each ball and race to a determined number of points (aka 15, 30, 45, ect...) and the rules are almost identical to what Drady did there except for the fact I would outlaw jump cues and make people jump with a full length cue so as to bring back the skill in Masse and Kicking that the game is now virtually devoid of.