Chia Ching Wu banned by APBU

Based on some info posted here, it seems Chia Ching Wu has already decided to become a Singapore citizen. Singapore is an APBU member country from info I got from the WPBA web-site.

Wu lost his points ranking with Taiwan, therefore, he could also posibly lose his world ranking since he represented TPE in WPA sanctioned events. Wu would need to be able to participate as a Singapore citizen and earn ranking points on his new citizenship but if he cannot represent Singapore for the next 3 years, he is completely out of the loop of earning points, and would possibly be banned of any APBU or WPBA events within those 3 years.! He would only be eligible to participate in non-sanctioned events in Singapore, or around the world, and we know that sometimes the Regional Organizations go out on the Players that do not abide by the organizational rules. This APBU ban could very much hurt Wu's chances of maintaining his top rank status in the World.

A very difficult situation for any World Top-Ranked player. Specially for the difficult-times we are seeing with most Pool-Billiards events around the World.
 
Celtic..."Should" being the operative word here. It's a nice idea, and I agree with you, but it's very doubtful that it will ever happen. The U.S. Government only subsidizes Olympic sports (through the USOC), and that is a pittance for most sports. The individual sports have to do their own fundraising. Pool has no chance here...heck we can't even generate interest in a "pro player fund" here on AzB. BTW, there are many players, the caliber of John Schmidt...so he not the only deserving American player.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Celtic said:
A person like John Schmidt should have the support of a governing body of pool in America, they should send him a monthly salary to play under their banner and play for the USA and they should send him to events all across the world to attempt to win titles for America, while marketing him to the people of the USA as one of their own players. John Schmidt to the people of the USA should be akin to the Red Wings to the people of Detroit. If you start to actually get the players to be recognized as playing for specific geographical locations and have countries supporting those players that do that this sport will see a remarkable increase in public interest and a dramatic increase in the participation of this sport at both the amature and pro ranks alike.
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Winners of World Championships in 8-ball and 9-ball will automatically be invited for the coming 5 years after they won. Chia Ching Wu won in 2005, and with that he was given spots for 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

So Chia Ching Wu doesn't need ranking points to be invited for either the World 8-ball or World 9-ball.

Our only concern should be if these events will actually happen...
 
Roy Steffensen said:
Winners of World Championships in 8-ball and 9-ball will automatically be invited for the coming 5 years after they won. Chia Ching Wu won in 2005, and with that he was given spots for 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

So Chia Ching Wu doesn't need ranking points to be invited for either the World 8-ball or World 9-ball.

Our only concern should be if these events will actually happen...
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What would happen if a World Champion, for whatever reason, became not in good standing with his countrys' association? Would they still be invited?
 
Roy Steffensen said:
Winners of World Championships in 8-ball and 9-ball will automatically be invited for the coming 5 years after they won. Chia Ching Wu won in 2005, and with that he was given spots for 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

So Chia Ching Wu doesn't need ranking points to be invited for either the World 8-ball or World 9-ball.

Our only concern should be if these events will actually happen...
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Certainly should be a more pressing concern Roy.......and furthermore, even after 2010 (assuming he hasn't won one of the titles again in 2009 or 2010 and thereby gained further exemption) although they could effectively ban him from being given an allocated slot for either Taiwan (permanently) or Singapore (for 3 years) there would of course be nothing to stop him playing in any of the local qualifying comps and winning his way in via them.
 
MasterClass said:
I have a different point of view.

I wonder what would happen if the develop countries tries to take a short cut of gaining recognition in the sports by simply buying out other countries talent whom they have taken time and money and effort to nurture. Instead of trying to develop their own?

What would happen in that develop country when their players there feels that they can be replace at any day with foreign imports?

I think it would be detrimental to the development of the game of pool.

Also taking up citizenship and taking up residence is totally different things. I can understand that being young, if given the lure of money and opportunity it is really hard to turn down.

Maybe representative for any tournament for any country should just be made up of people who are actually from that country! Else soon you will start see Chinese athletes representing a dozen other country all over the world in all different sports under different flags. Isn't that a corruption to the spirit of sportsmanship? That has already been happening in the Olympics.
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I need to add to the confusion a little bit!

There are some countries that allow dual citizenship and some that do not. This situation would be solved if Chinese Taipei (Taiwan) would just allow dual citizenship, but they don't and this is where the problem starts. Now Taiwan is trying to do what they can to keep Wu in their country.

There is a baseball pitcher from Taiwan that currently plays and/or played for the Yankees named Ching Ming Wang (I think). But he still represents Taiwan for the Olympics and the World Baseball Classic. My question is why can't they just do the same for Wu? I think that it being Singapore and not the US is a big difference in this case because Singapore is in Asia and the US is not.

Another point is this. Many countries hire american coaches for the Olympics and their professional sports. They are just trying to improve the quality of play in their country for that particular sport. The US does not make these coaches choose citizenship between the two countries involved. I believe that Singapore is trying to improve the quality of pool in their country in this case, but Taiwan is making Wu choose a country.

Just my opinion though.

ED
 
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Scott Lee said:
BTW, there are many players, the caliber of John Schmidt...so he not the only deserving American player.
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He was entirely just an example, of course there are others, the USA would send a contingent and the people of America like the people of the Phillipines would be routing for not only their favorite player but their country as a whole. When I check in on the US Open I have some Canadians I route for more then others but I would love to see any one of them take that event down.

If the right person was given a position within an organization such as the BCA with enough control and resources the sport could slowly be changed to be more akin to what I mentioned. It would be alot of hard work for that person, not at all a 9-5 job but instead a life commitment where that person would likely only see the real fruit of their labours in the twilight of their career. It would require better sponsership for the sport on the local level all the way to the international level, it would require the players going back to an earlier form of "professional" where they travel the country playing exhibition matches and getting their names out there to the general public, these exhibitions would need to be done in public places such as Malls such as Asia has used to garner interest in the sport. It would require more structured amature levels of the sport and a more structured professional standing and qualifiers along with localized continental tours for Asia, Europe, and America with a few large events each year that bring all 3 together such as World Championships, much like the majors in golf do for the European and American tours.

It would take someone with vision, a work ethic, and the ability to commit to doing it all for little monetary reward and instead for the betterment of the sport.

It could happen if the effort and commitment to making it happen took place. It will need to happen if this sport is to ever become something more. Wil it happen? That is another question and atm with the people in charge and what is being done the answer is a firm no.
 
this APBU and WPA are making rules so that they can have a hold on players. They hold major tournaments for Matchroom Sports and act only as facitator for this events. Here in the Philippines, they course their requests thru BSCP. BSCP in turn tries to get players like Alex Pagulayan, Efren Reyes, Django Bustamente to play. BSCP has no hold on this players and it is completely up to this players to accept or reject the invitation. Here, it has come to the point that his "arm-twisting tactics" has led to the boycott of almost all WPA sanctioned events.

I am totally disgusted with this and expect me not to watch any more WPA APBU sanctioned event!!!
 
Celtic said:
It sounds like alot of major sports where players are paid huge amounts of money.

Basically if this happend the players would end up benefitting from the competition and offers from other countries for the stars of this sport. Countries would have to give incentives to the players for them to stay and play for that flag, with monthly stipends, health care, covering their travel and costs for events, ect... Which is in effect exactly what Singapore does, and what Taiwan does NOT do.

What you are putting out there as some kind of bad thing is in actuality exactly what this sport needs to move forward, the players need support and security just like any other professional sports star needs. Otherwise the bulk of the people with talent in this game will go do something else because the risks and lack of securuty in being a professional pool player are far to steep. A person like John Schmidt should have the support of a governing body of pool in America, they should send him a monthly salary to play under their banner and play for the USA and they should send him to events all across the world to attempt to win titles for America, while marketing him to the people of the USA as one of their own players. John Schmidt to the people of the USA should be akin to the Red Wings to the people of Detroit. If you start to actually get the players to be recognized as playing for specific geographical locations and have countries supporting those players that do that this sport will see a remarkable increase in public interest and a dramatic increase in the participation of this sport at both the amature and pro ranks alike.
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This goes both ways. When an athlete is on the public payroll then their life is not their own. A professional athlete should be free to ply their profession wherever is best for them and make contracts for as much money as they can get. If a country wants the BEST in the world to compete under their flag then they should make provisions for that.

But to my mind competing for honor and being a representative of a country should always be something one has earned by beating the best that a country has to offer. If the WPA arranges their participation in such a way as to allow national federations to grant spots then those spots should go to the best in the land based on the rankings. If a player chooses to go elsewhere and does not participate in order to maintain their rankings then they forgo the opportunity to participate through nomination. The way the WC is currently set up however the players can qualify with no affiliation and play.

It sounds as if Singapore is wanting Wu to play for Singapore as a citizen. I don't really agree with the practice of countries to buy talent because then it's no different than professional sports. However I can't really fault them for doing what every other country does. How many gold medals in gymnastics has the USA won because of Bela Karoly?

It's a difficult spot for a 20 year old pool player to be in.

I agree with Jay that the WPA and it's member organizations should be doing EVERYTHING that they can to SUPPORT the top players in the world. I still don't fault Mr. Tu here because I believe him to be a fair man and I believe we don't have the whole story. BUT with the state of pool as it is the main goal of these organizations should be to showcase the world's top players and help them to find and take advantage of every opportunity they can to further their careers.
 
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After Edwin's assassination, I promised myself that I was done with partisan perspectives. I had a painful wake-up call. My eyes are pulled further up for a bigger picture.

What we do not know in Wu's case is how it is taken culturally. While in the Philippine pool culture we have the player-manager structure that had stood alone to generate great players with hardly the government's support, Taiwan's government has been all out in support for the development of pool. They even had a price for every Filipino's head in tournaments, not to mention tournament bonuses and other day to day incentives.

Again, unlike Busta who shared his talents with Germany, Alex who once represented Canada, Ibrahim who now plays for Malaysia, and the many others who have left the Philippines for greener pastures -- Wu's Singapore move is obviously being taken as a defection. It is cultural.

But this is only considering the culture of the country. The organizations above the country sport organization should not have cultural color. It is another version of conflict of interest. Wu has a problem with Taiwan but he should really not have a problem with APBU.

The only way to avoid that is by felling down the authoritarian characteristics of the higher amateur organizations. If professional pool is willing to put up with this, they should make sure that there is dynamism in the mother amateur organization, down the line. Tenure of service is one mechanism. Record of productivity is another.

However, if the professionals have had enough, then a clear demarcation line should be laid down to segregate Amateur from Professional. The professionals should stick to the merits of free enterprise and come up with a clique of their own to stand parallel with the amateur bodies. It can be a civil relationship. On the other hand, the country organizations should keep away from the dark side of money matters by handling only amateurs and by submitting themselves to the dictation of the WPA. This will eliminate a huge chunk of conflict of interest.

Pool can be a true sport as proposed to the IOC. It has gained momentum and it is possible. But pool is also a gambling game and the professionals should take care of that side of it when huge amounts of money prizes are involved. Ironically, it is to the detriment of those who are pushing for pool to be a sport to continue with their system of governing because its management has been on a downfall. The amateurs will someday have to accept that they should give something in return for sanction fees, and it is fast becoming a transaction of the past... a very high cost for harmony in the game.

If it is good for the player, then it is good for pool - professional or amateur.
 
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sputnik said:
...... The amateurs will someday have to accept that they should give something in return for sanction fees, and it is fast becoming a transaction of the past... a very high cost for harmony in the game ......
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Thanks, Sputnik , for a well-reasoned, well-written post. Could you please clarify what you mean on the above point?
 
sjm said:
Thanks, Sputnik , for a well-reasoned, well-written post. Could you please clarify what you mean on the above point?
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Thank you likewise, sjm.

Just thinking of all those posts I did with Edwin about the amateurs and the pros and exhausts me. I will clarify my opinion...

There were many issues that the WPA could have resolved if only they had stepped in early with impartiality. Perhaps there wouldn't have been such a huge rift in the Philippines and perhaps things wouldn't have ended this ugly. It is not the WPA's duty to fix the internal mess of countries but it could well serve its constituents just by listening to conflicting parties under them and attempting to neutrally sort things out. While most all events are accredited and sanction fees are paid, the constituency is left without a true democratic leader who can at least give consideration to a majority. There is very little that is asked of WPA in return.

Fast becoming a thing of the past because the authoritarian management of WPA and the incidence of conflict of interest are fast breeding dissent and sooner or later, it is my prediction that it will catch up on them if nothing is done about it. Reading through By-Laws and rules, I can hear WPA saying that they merely have mandate to act only within limits. But experiences and changing times are talking loud enough for them to hear, read, and revise their system of management. The current system is stripped of all accountability and it revolves around accreditation and sanction. They manage regional and country representatives, promoters, and players and their management skills have room for improvement. The essence of leadership and has to show itself in a democratic rule without conflict of interest.

... an opinion very vulnerable to objection.
 
sputnik said:
Thank you likewise, sjm.

Just thinking of all those posts I did with Edwin about the amateurs and the pros and exhausts me. I will clarify my opinion...

There were many issues that the WPA could have resolved if only they had stepped in early with impartiality. Perhaps there wouldn't have been such a huge rift in the Philippines and perhaps things wouldn't have ended this ugly. It is not the WPA's duty to fix the internal mess of countries but it could well serve its constituents just by listening to conflicting parties under them and attempting to neutrally sort things out. While most all events are accredited and sanction fees are paid, the constituency is left without a true democratic leader who can at least give consideration to a majority. There is very little that is asked of WPA in return.

Fast becoming a thing of the past because the authoritarian management of WPA and the incidence of conflict of interest are fast breeding dissent and sooner or later, it is my prediction that it will catch up on them if nothing is done about it. Reading through By-Laws and rules, I can hear WPA saying that they merely have mandate to act only within limits. But experiences and changing times are talking loud enough for them to hear, read, and revise their system of management. The current system is stripped of all accountability and it revolves around accreditation and sanction. They manage regional and country representatives, promoters, and players and their management skills have room for improvement. The essence of leadership and has to show itself in a democratic rule without conflict of interest.

... an opinion very vulnerable to objection.
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Thanks for taking the time to offer these additional insights, Sputnik.
 
sputnik said:
There is very little that is asked of WPA in return. I can hear WPA saying that they merely have mandate to act only within limits. But experiences and changing times are talking loud enough for them to hear, read, and revise their system of management. The current system is stripped of all accountability and it revolves around accreditation and sanction. They manage regional and country representatives, promoters, and players and their manaorsythkills have room for improvement. The essence of leadership and has to show itself in a democratic rule without conflict of interest.

... an opinion very vulnerable to objection.
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The game does need a WPA type organisation but it needs to be constructed in such a manner so that players (who are people who fund it) can have a voice. There is no way into the hierarchy except through the continental federations. So it has become self perpetuating and non accountable.
Jerry Forsyth was invited via the BCA and makes a welcome arrival on the Board. But he has yet to make his presence felt. His initiative with the Players Fund on AZB shows how he thinks and he would be the man to drive for players rights.
 
pro9dg said:
The game does need a WPA type organisation but it needs to be constructed in such a manner so that players (who are people who fund it) can have a voice. There is no way into the hierarchy except through the continental federations. So it has become self perpetuating and non accountable.
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Tap tap tap

I have been to one meeting at the EPBF, the general meeting, as representative for the Norwegian Pool Federation, and it was a complete joke.

It's almost impossible to get new people and new ideas in the board of EPBF, unless they are "hand-picked" by members of the board already... it's a rotten system, and I can only imagine how hard it is to become a board member of the WPA.

Sad but true.
 
When the same people have been at the helm for the last 20 years it's hard to distinguish between a democratic organization and an autocratic one.

I spoke with Ian Anderson the president of the WPA a few years ago and found out that it is mostly funded by the board members with barely any staff.

The WPA and it's structure are in dire need of a restructuring and a new mandate.

I suggest this one, "What is good for the players is good for pool", Edwin Reyes.
 
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