I love you, C.J., but I gotta pull for Ronnie. And guess what, folks? Ronnie is Canadian, and I'm pulling for him to win.
say whuuuuut?!!?
:wink::grin:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hUDAxWlNrQ4#t=791s
CJ Wiley vs Ronnie Wiseman Up Next ACCU STATS 9b Thu 2:30 est
- Thread starter Kickin' Chicken
- Start date
say whuuuuut?!!?
:wink::grin:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hUDAxWlNrQ4#t=791s
My 2 cents. If you saw CJ play in the 80's and 90's and saw todays match most would think he will never gain his top game again. What I saw between the cracks in his game was an 8 cylinder engine that the carb needs a little tweet to make everything smooth out and run at top performance. IMO (a nobot) his pocketing will comeback as he gets in the box more. The one part of his game that needs practice is his kicking and safety play. One other thing. If he really wants to reach the top in pool again he should get a Diamond for his home table.
When CJ was on top of his game no one had to like it...no one. Johnnyt
When CJ was on top of his game no one had to like it...no one. Johnnyt
Johnny, you can def see there's a former champion in there.
he's not so old that he can't knock off some rust and get back a couple balls.
I always like to root for the 'old guys'. Even the ones who ain't so old. :smile:
best,
brian kc
I just don't know if he has enough time to devote to playing these days with all that he always has on his plate...or if he even wants too. One thing is for sure, he knows what it would/will take to get back at the top. Johnnyt
There is certainly a process of "re learning" for me to compete again
I believe your assessment is accurate. The "kicking and safety" play develops with competition and that's something I haven't had in a number of years. There's no substitute for competition to make us fine tune out games and know we can perform under any degree of pressure.
The Diamond Tables required a different type of game geared towards simplicity mostly due to the fast cloth and rails. The issues I was experiencing was purely physical in nature which had a "side effect" of inaccuracy. I had to reach a deeper level of understanding of my grip/stroke to identify the problem with the help of Hunter Lombardo and Corey Deuel.
There is certainly a process of "re learning" for me to compete again, there's many subtle things that I've simply forgot, however, none of these things are complicated, most of them are even natural and involve understanding the "flow and momentum" of matches. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I believe your assessment is accurate. The "kicking and safety" play develops with competition and that's something I haven't had in a number of years. There's no substitute for competition to make us fine tune out games and know we can perform under any degree of pressure.
The Diamond Tables required a different type of game geared towards simplicity mostly due to the fast cloth and rails. The issues I was experiencing was purely physical in nature which had a "side effect" of inaccuracy. I had to reach a deeper level of understanding of my grip/stroke to identify the problem with the help of Hunter Lombardo and Corey Deuel.
There is certainly a process of "re learning" for me to compete again, there's many subtle things that I've simply forgot, however, none of these things are complicated, most of them are even natural and involve understanding the "flow and momentum" of matches. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I have heard that you were best in the country at one time, from many, many folks.
To me, there is a hell of a lot better chance of someone getting back at that top level (and quicker), than someone that has never been there....
Kim Davenport said once that one of his best attributes is that he could stop playing for a period of time (long time whatever that means), and then within a week of solid playing he was back in stroke as if he hadn't stopped. I didn't 100% believe him, but I did get his point that he could get back in stroke quicker than others.
KEn
Actually, the last time I saw Ronnie, he still smoked like a stovepipe.
One of the funniest moments at an SBE Open/Pro 10-ball event a couple years ago, was when Ronnie entered the arena right behind where tournament director Frank DelPizo was standing. Frank was facing away from the door where Ronnie made his entrance, and was making an announcement. Frank finished the announcement quickly, and without turning around (still facing the arena) lowered the microphone away from his face, made an obvious scrunch of his face as he sniffed the air, and said (loudly enough so that the folks in the nearby VIP seats could hear), "Ronnie Wiseman must have just entered the arena somewhere -- cologne and cigarettes."
Ronnie, with his usual comedic aplomb, replies, "Yes, Frank, it's me -- why you gotta do me like that?" And the whole VIP section cracks up at the exchange.
Priceless!
-Sean
Nice that you have this understanding of yourself, looking forward to better things to come.
I've seen CJ play perfect pool, looked like Denis or SVB in todays world.
CJ has ring rust and needs a little time, he will be just fine. its impossible to take off as many years as he has and come back like nothing happened. people forget things over time, even when you been there, there are small things that you forget. In all sport for all people at all levels. lesser in the lower levels IMO. I dont golf so if I go golfing today i'm gonna suck as bad as I did the only other time I golfed.
Same as action, take 6 months off and jump into $500 action and for the first few hours WOW its a different world than banging balls.
I got lots of respect for what CJ is doing, and am fully confident he will compete much better than he is at the moment. And Hunter is scary smart when it comes to some things-stroke/mechnical stuff. wow. He and CJ working together is a scary thing, they can bring each other up a few notches.
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I think it is the immersion level that you have when you have been in competition that is missing... No overlooking any options or you may go home broke... I think a few more tournaments and some matching up and your total awareness will be back in full swing....
As far as having fundamental help it sure can't get much better than Hunter and Corey when something doesn't feel quite right...
I also applaud you for calling the foul on yourself.... I ran the replay over and over frame by frame and couldn't even see a hint of it anywhere but on your face when you realized it had happened...
Hope you and Mary made it home safely and hope to see you guys soon....
Chris
I had the pleasure of playing CJ on 3 different occasions while we were in Tunica.
The first time was approximately 45-2 in favor of CJ in about two hours. His 45 wins are approximate. My 2 are certain. It was all 9B, except for the very last game, which was 10B.
This was probably the most embarrassed I've ever been at the table, in my life. I know I'm not supposed to win against him, but dammit, I played so poorly. I was a bit nervous and those Diamonds are unlike ANYTHING we play on around here. Even at 4 1/2" pockets, they're tighter than anything I normally play on. The pocket angles are also vastly different than anything I play on. We have NO 9-footers in my area. Even the Diamonds that I have played on in Arkansas are 8-footers.....and they do NOT play like what was at this event. I should have been able to adjust, but I just couldn't.
I eventually went back to my hotel room and was pretty ashamed of myself, as I'm a better player than what I showed him. Lord only knows what he thought of me. I wanted him to see that I was a decent amateur player and not a banger. I couldn't do even that. I had zero confidence by the time it was over.
The second time we only played 3 games and they locked the tables down. Pretty sure it was 3-0 for CJ. We played either 9B or 10B. Don't honestly remember which, but I wanna say it was 10B. I ran out half of the last rack and dogged the money ball.
By the third time we played each other, I had switched playing shafts back to my original one. It was something I figured out during my 1st round 9B match. My play picked up immediately at that point, so I kept it for the rest of the event.
Anyway, the 3rd time around, I shot better and was able to get out a few times to stay within spitting distance of even, for maybe 30-45 minutes or so. By the time we had played an hour, he was starting to pick up steam. For the next couple of hours, it was spooky silent in there. There weren't 10 people in the whole arena, and an action match had ended that was near us.......so, we were the only ones on that entire side of the venue.
It was at this point of the session, that I began racking for the greatest money player of the 20th century for a solid 2 hours straight. At least. CJ was/is intense. Very intense. Intimidately so. He can make the CB dance like no one else I've seen. When I finally did win another game on down the line, I grabbed my break cue and almost broke with the bumper end. I couldn't remember what it was like to not have to rack.
We finally stopped somewhere around 4:45 a.m. or so. I was sweating and he wasn't even breathing hard.
If CJ wanted to dominate again and put in the time, I have no doubts about his gear. Because if you're sitting in the electric chair, it doesn't matter how good the other guy is.
I sat a lot. I racked a lot.
At one point, I told him, "CJ, don't take this the wrong way. It's a compliment. But, you're like a really good hooker. I love to watch you work, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to pay for it. At least not the price that you made them pay back in the day."
He just stared somewhere between me and the distance, while waiting for me to rack.
The first time was approximately 45-2 in favor of CJ in about two hours. His 45 wins are approximate. My 2 are certain. It was all 9B, except for the very last game, which was 10B.
This was probably the most embarrassed I've ever been at the table, in my life. I know I'm not supposed to win against him, but dammit, I played so poorly. I was a bit nervous and those Diamonds are unlike ANYTHING we play on around here. Even at 4 1/2" pockets, they're tighter than anything I normally play on. The pocket angles are also vastly different than anything I play on. We have NO 9-footers in my area. Even the Diamonds that I have played on in Arkansas are 8-footers.....and they do NOT play like what was at this event. I should have been able to adjust, but I just couldn't.
I eventually went back to my hotel room and was pretty ashamed of myself, as I'm a better player than what I showed him. Lord only knows what he thought of me. I wanted him to see that I was a decent amateur player and not a banger. I couldn't do even that. I had zero confidence by the time it was over.
The second time we only played 3 games and they locked the tables down. Pretty sure it was 3-0 for CJ. We played either 9B or 10B. Don't honestly remember which, but I wanna say it was 10B. I ran out half of the last rack and dogged the money ball.
By the third time we played each other, I had switched playing shafts back to my original one. It was something I figured out during my 1st round 9B match. My play picked up immediately at that point, so I kept it for the rest of the event.
Anyway, the 3rd time around, I shot better and was able to get out a few times to stay within spitting distance of even, for maybe 30-45 minutes or so. By the time we had played an hour, he was starting to pick up steam. For the next couple of hours, it was spooky silent in there. There weren't 10 people in the whole arena, and an action match had ended that was near us.......so, we were the only ones on that entire side of the venue.
It was at this point of the session, that I began racking for the greatest money player of the 20th century for a solid 2 hours straight. At least. CJ was/is intense. Very intense. Intimidately so. He can make the CB dance like no one else I've seen. When I finally did win another game on down the line, I grabbed my break cue and almost broke with the bumper end. I couldn't remember what it was like to not have to rack.
We finally stopped somewhere around 4:45 a.m. or so. I was sweating and he wasn't even breathing hard.
If CJ wanted to dominate again and put in the time, I have no doubts about his gear. Because if you're sitting in the electric chair, it doesn't matter how good the other guy is.
I sat a lot. I racked a lot.
At one point, I told him, "CJ, don't take this the wrong way. It's a compliment. But, you're like a really good hooker. I love to watch you work, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to pay for it. At least not the price that you made them pay back in the day."
He just stared somewhere between me and the distance, while waiting for me to rack.
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The scenario is the same now as it was 10 years, 20 years, or even 30 years ago
Yes, Ken, it's easier to win tournaments when you've done it before. The scenario is the same now as it was 10 years, 20 years, or even 30 years ago - you get opportunities to win every match and you either take advantage of them and win, or don't {take advantage of them} and lose.
The personal thing that stood out as being different is I didn't have any desire to watch any matches (I guess) because of the format. The "rack your own" system doesn't make sense to me, it's like watching a tennis player return his own serve, or a baseball player hitting his own pitches. I know racking for each other slows the tournaments down a few minutes, but it's an essential part of the competition.....or it just looks like the players are practicing.
Of course I'm a big advocate of "Roll Out" (Push Out) rules to ad more strategy to the game, these days it's just a rack running contest and that's not that interesting to watch. I like the model of bringing out the shotmaking and defensive battles, not playing safe, kicking and "ball in hand" - these rules were invented to speed up matches, not make the game entertaining to watch.
The "model" of these tournaments has certainly changed, now it seems the emphasis is on getting as many players as possible. I remember (when promoting tournaments) only being concerned with getting as many spectators as possible. I would rather see 16 players with 500 spectators than 500 players with 16 spectators. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, Ken, it's easier to win tournaments when you've done it before. The scenario is the same now as it was 10 years, 20 years, or even 30 years ago - you get opportunities to win every match and you either take advantage of them and win, or don't {take advantage of them} and lose.
The personal thing that stood out as being different is I didn't have any desire to watch any matches (I guess) because of the format. The "rack your own" system doesn't make sense to me, it's like watching a tennis player return his own serve, or a baseball player hitting his own pitches. I know racking for each other slows the tournaments down a few minutes, but it's an essential part of the competition.....or it just looks like the players are practicing.
Of course I'm a big advocate of "Roll Out" (Push Out) rules to ad more strategy to the game, these days it's just a rack running contest and that's not that interesting to watch. I like the model of bringing out the shotmaking and defensive battles, not playing safe, kicking and "ball in hand" - these rules were invented to speed up matches, not make the game entertaining to watch.
The "model" of these tournaments has certainly changed, now it seems the emphasis is on getting as many players as possible. I remember (when promoting tournaments) only being concerned with getting as many spectators as possible. I would rather see 16 players with 500 spectators than 500 players with 16 spectators. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Buddy Hall played in the same pool room that I played in Paducah Kentucky. I was playing him once and got out of line, and hooked him dead behind a ball.
His comment was, "You got out of line, and wont be penaltilized for it." He was a big fan of 2 shot pushout but I had never played it. All of the old timers had and without fail preferred it.
Guess that puts you with the old timers....LOL
(Buddy kicked it 3 rails and I never got ball in hand....
)Ken
I understand the "Certain" thing very well myself.
I had a similar session with JA once, we played 45 minutes. I made a 1-9 combo off a dry break. My one game was certain. The other thing that was certain is I didnt have a shot the whole time either. i was racking and kicking. never saw the edge of a ball.
Its amazing how good some people play. wow
One foul is like playing football where it's 1st or 4th down ever time
It brings out a lot of strategy that you will never see in One Foul....and there's ten times more shots that will come up that take a lot of skill. In One Foul, you either try to run out or try to play safe, there's really no other options. In Two Foul there's MANY more options and the "Two Way Shot" is utilized a hundred times more than one foul. I play both about the same, but the character of Two Foul is vastly better than the way it's being played now.
One foul is like playing football where it's 1st or 4th down ever time with nothing in between. And, yes, I'm an "old timer'" and only the old timers will understand what I'm talking about. I do think the game will make a come back some day when pool is taken seriously, but for now it's perfect the way it is.
'The Game is the Teacher'
Buddy Hall played in the same pool room that I played in Paducah Kentucky. I was playing him once and got out of line, and hooked him dead behind a ball.
His comment was, "You got out of line, and wont be penaltilized for it." He was a big fan of 2 shot pushout but I had never played it. All of the old timers had and without fail preferred it.
Guess that puts you with the old timers....LOL
(Buddy kicked it 3 rails and I never got ball in hand....
Ken
It brings out a lot of strategy that you will never see in One Foul....and there's ten times more shots that will come up that take a lot of skill. In One Foul, you either try to run out or try to play safe, there's really no other options. In Two Foul there's MANY more options and the "Two Way Shot" is utilized a hundred times more than one foul. I play both about the same, but the character of Two Foul is vastly better than the way it's being played now.
One foul is like playing football where it's 1st or 4th down ever time with nothing in between. And, yes, I'm an "old timer'" and only the old timers will understand what I'm talking about. I do think the game will make a come back some day when pool is taken seriously, but for now it's perfect the way it is.
'The Game is the Teacher'
I see ESPN as the only viable option to get pool spiked in popularity again.
Yes, those sessions helped me get my arm straightened out. I felt like my arm had warped driving across Arkansas....is that possible?
I wrote down about 15 pages of notes on what I needed to do to get back to championship speed. At some point I'll start sharing these points as I do them....if I do them. :groucho:
Actually I have the desire to play at that level again, just not in tournaments with several hundred players, that's for people in their 20s and 30s......and I see ESPN as the only viable option to get pool spiked in popularity again. It could be another network, but Pool desperately needs a weekly show on TV....same time, same day type show with pool as the backdrop.
I had the pleasure of playing CJ on 3 different occasions while we were in Tunica.
The first time was approximately 45-2 in favor of CJ in about two hours. His 45 wins are approximate. My 2 are certain. It was all 9B, except for the very last game, which was 10B.
This was probably the most embarrassed I've ever been at the table, in my life. I know I'm not supposed to win against him, but dammit, I played so poorly. I was a bit nervous and those Diamonds are unlike ANYTHING we play on around here. Even at 4 1/2" pockets, they're tighter than anything I normally play on. The pocket angles are also vastly different than anything I play on. We have NO 9-footers in my area. Even the Diamonds that I have played on in Arkansas are 8-footers.....and they do NOT play like what was at this event. I should have been able to adjust, but I just couldn't.
I eventually went back to my hotel room and was pretty ashamed of myself, as I'm a better player than what I showed him. Lord only knows what he thought of me. I wanted him to see that I was a decent amateur player and not a banger. I couldn't do even that. I had zero confidence by the time it was over.
The second time we only played 3 games and they locked the tables down. Pretty sure it was 3-0 for CJ. We played either 9B or 10B. Don't honestly remember which, but I wanna say it was 10B. I ran out half of the last rack and dogged the money ball.
By the third time we played each other, I had switched playing shafts back to my original one. It was something I figured out during my 1st round 9B match. My play picked up immediately at that point, so I kept it for the rest of the event.
Anyway, the 3rd time around, I shot better and was able to get out a few times to stay within spitting distance of even, for maybe 30-45 minutes or so. By the time we had played an hour, he was starting to pick up steam. For the next couple of hours, it was spooky silent in there. There weren't 10 people in the whole arena, and an action match had ended that was near us.......so, we were the only ones on that entire side of the venue.
It was at this point of the session, that I began racking for the greatest money player of the 20th century for a solid 2 hours straight. At least. CJ was/is intense. Very intense. Intimidately so. He can make the CB dance like no one else I've seen. When I finally did win another game on down the line, I grabbed my break cue and almost broke with the bumper end. I couldn't remember what it was like to not have to rack.
We finally stopped somewhere around 4:45 a.m. or so. I was sweating and he wasn't even breathing hard.
If CJ wanted to dominate again and put in the time, I have no doubts about his gear. Because if you're sitting in the electric chair, it doesn't matter how good the other guy is.
I sat a lot. I racked a lot.
At one point, I told him, "CJ, don't take this the wrong way. It's a compliment. But, you're like a really good hooker. I love to watch you work, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to pay for it. At least not the price that you made them pay back in the day."
He just stared somewhere between me and the distance, while waiting for me to rack.
Yes, those sessions helped me get my arm straightened out. I felt like my arm had warped driving across Arkansas....is that possible?
I wrote down about 15 pages of notes on what I needed to do to get back to championship speed. At some point I'll start sharing these points as I do them....if I do them. :groucho:
Actually I have the desire to play at that level again, just not in tournaments with several hundred players, that's for people in their 20s and 30s......and I see ESPN as the only viable option to get pool spiked in popularity again. It could be another network, but Pool desperately needs a weekly show on TV....same time, same day type show with pool as the backdrop.
No offense but he would be CJ Wiley... There are plenty of matches on youtube... Not seen the JJ match so I can't comment on this but if I did I'd sign it Chris Renfro.. Nothing like running that holster in anonymity....
Chris Renfro
Even when I was playing great sometimes the table wouldn't look quite right.
Hey, that's ok, I know that match looked "one dimensional," the Feature Table was precisely the last table I wanted to play my first match on. It's a strange thing when we "forget how to play" for a match.....or two. The only difference {now} is that I don't know how to "come out of it" fast enough. Even when I was playing great sometimes the table wouldn't look quite right.....or the stroke wasn't quite right, but our tournament experience would carry us through.
It happens to everyone at some time or another, the difference is the seasoned players know how to play their way through it... I had some physical issues I had to work my way through, it wasn't "ideal" but it was part of learning in "real life".
I did re learn and understand {now} details of my grip/stoke that are very important in the process (that I had forgot over the last 15 years), and talked a great deal with Corey Deuel and Hunter Lombardo about their thoughts and ideas. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Hey, that's ok, I know that match looked "one dimensional," the Feature Table was precisely the last table I wanted to play my first match on. It's a strange thing when we "forget how to play" for a match.....or two. The only difference {now} is that I don't know how to "come out of it" fast enough. Even when I was playing great sometimes the table wouldn't look quite right.....or the stroke wasn't quite right, but our tournament experience would carry us through.
It happens to everyone at some time or another, the difference is the seasoned players know how to play their way through it... I had some physical issues I had to work my way through, it wasn't "ideal" but it was part of learning in "real life".
I did re learn and understand {now} details of my grip/stoke that are very important in the process (that I had forgot over the last 15 years), and talked a great deal with Corey Deuel and Hunter Lombardo about their thoughts and ideas. 'The Game is the Teacher'
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