Correct Me If I'm Wrong Here

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Correct me if I’m wrong here. I say that no matter what way you aim or system you use to pocket balls you still have to be able the hit something about the size of the ball on a ballpoint pen from 6 to 9 foot away or it isn’t going in the pocket. This is why if you take most players that miss 7 and 8 foot cut shots 50% of the time and then teach them an aiming system ONLY, they are still going to miss about 50% of the time. Forget about 1,2, and 3 foot shots, “D” players can make them a good percentage of the time. Show me how you can make long shots unedited with an aiming system close to 100% of the time and I’ll say you have something. Johnnyt
 
Aiming

I am not a big fan of aiming systems, I go for the contact point, always have, and it works fine. But, I have noticed over the 49 years, what I aim for has changed. When I first started playing I aimed for the contact point about the size of a quarter, gradually over the years, it went down to a dime, and now it is down to a period. I take special care with combination shots in aiming them.
 
You know your gonna get another aiming thread going right? :p
Johnny that's the golden chalise all us pool players are looking for brother,b.t.w. if you find it before me let me know where you found it!:thumbup:
 
Johnnyt said:
Correct me if I’m wrong here. I say that no matter what way you aim or system you use to pocket balls you still have to be able the hit something about the size of the ball on a ballpoint pen from 6 to 9 foot away or it isn’t going in the pocket. This is why if you take most players that miss 7 and 8 foot cut shots 50% of the time and then teach them an aiming system ONLY, they are still going to miss about 50% of the time. Forget about 1,2, and 3 foot shots, “D” players can make them a good percentage of the time. Show me how you can make long shots unedited with an aiming system close to 100% of the time and I’ll say you have something. Johnnyt
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It's the unedited part that you can't prevent.The mind is a wondrous thing it keeps us from doing lots of bad stuff.

I believe one of the points that many people miss about systems for anything is that once you have been using any method or system for awhile it becomes automatic and I would assert that once you've automated a process you are no longer using a system.

To use a non pool example. Someone may teach a new driver how to drive a stick. They give them a system, (something like, put your left foot on the clutch, your right foot on the break, push down the clutch while holding the break, shift into gear, move your right foot to the gas pedal, give more gas to the engine while at the same time easing off of the clutch etc.)

Once someone gains experience in using this system they will make it their own (i.e. perhaps making some minor adjustments to the original system). The process will become automated, they will no longer think about the steps in the system.

Since it would be impossible to prevent a "human" from making minor "edits" as you put it, when shooting shots whether it's a slight move of the eye or the stick, Perhaps the best test for this is Deep Green, the pool playing Robot developed at Queens University.

Here's the links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1TiO5lgN7o
http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/17/deep-green-the-pool-playing-robot/

Deep Green uses an aiming system of sorts, its aiming algorithim/s and other equipment perform mathematical calculations and it arrives at the aiming point. I don't believe the algorithim/s would make edits (i.e. they aren't going to keep running the same calculations over and over).

The machine makes the balls using an aiming system. If a machine built by men/women can use a system to make balls on a pool table, why wouldn't you believe that a man or woman could also use a system to pocket balls on a pool table?
 
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The two primary factors in pocketing a ball.
1) Knowing where the CB needs to be.

2) Having the skill needed to put the CB where it needs to be.

Can't have one without the other.

dave
 
I'm not sure what the size of the contact point is exactly, or how much leeway you have (obviously dependent on how close the OB is to the pocket). I would guess it's somewhat larger than you describe, otherwise I don't think any of us would make a ball. But I do agree it's a pretty small margin of error on anything more than a foot or two from the pocket, a few degrees at most.

I'm a recent convert to CTE/Pro1, after 20 years of "feel" or GB/track aiming, and I would say that while my percentage of long shots has gone up because of using CTE, and I'm still learning to have confidence in it, it's not nearly as much as the accuracy I've gained with short to medium shots. Two reasons for this - first and foremost, whether sighting a GB, contact point, or aiming line, it's still tougher to do at distance because the OB appears much smaller and the precision required increases because of that perception. Second, no matter what method you are using you still need great mechanics to deliver the cue ball where you are actually aiming, and at distance sometimes you see exactly how bad your mechanics really are... :) For a player with mediocre mechanics, as with someone I briefly showed CTE to the other night, they can sight perfectly every single time but if they can't shoot straight it's not going to matter much.

Scott
 
The size of a ballpoint pen.. If you have 3.5" pockets maybe. Most shots have a margin of error that's much more forgiving then a the point of a pen.

Show me a long shot. I'm a D player with a camera.
 
Like going by the cuetable aim calculator and those pockets, this shot can be made between 6˚ & 9˚. So 3˚ margin of error.
shot1.png


This shot is between 44˚ & 49˚, so 5˚ margin of error using the whole pocket.
While this one has
shot2.png


Tighter pockets means less margin for error but basically instead of the point of a ball point pen, it may be as large as the other end of the pen.
 
"Only mediocre players play their A game all the time" -anonymous grandmother

Not sure what all this "aiming method" talk is about. For many years now I get down on the ball and my body tells me when to pull the trigger, the only time I ever miss is when I don't listen to it.

I'm usually focused on how much fun I'm having and how purely joyous it feels to be going through the motions.

I'm not aware of what kind of aiming i'm doing with the eyes, stick, edge of anything or reference of any kind. Of course that can't be said without a few hundred hours of drills to make all of those things automatic.

If you're STILL focusing on aiming methods and have been playing for anything past a year you're stuck in first gear still, let the clutch out and kick this baby into top gear! I say forget about all that technical stuff and play pool like it was an art and not a science.
 
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Johnnyt said:
Correct me if I’m wrong here. I say that no matter what way you aim or system you use to pocket balls you still have to be able the hit something about the size of the ball on a ballpoint pen from 6 to 9 foot away or it isn’t going in the pocket. This is why if you take most players that miss 7 and 8 foot cut shots 50% of the time and then teach them an aiming system ONLY, they are still going to miss about 50% of the time. Forget about 1,2, and 3 foot shots, “D” players can make them a good percentage of the time. Show me how you can make long shots unedited with an aiming system close to 100% of the time and I’ll say you have something. Johnnyt
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Just tuned in and had a few beers,, I'm not sure the point of contact is that small on most shots!!! The sharper the cut,,the less area of contact to work with. But if a ball is close to straight in,,no matter the distance,,there is a bigger area to hit than the ball of a pin,,, and still make it..... considering throw,,spin,,draw,,right ,left.

But I do understand what you are trying to say!! Which I believe is,,no matter what aiming system,, the ball still has to be hit well!!! And that is right,,,there's no miracle system that a "D" player,,or any player is going to use and make balls 100% of the time.... Period!!!
I believe in the "Put it in the hole"" system!!! If you miss,,,"Your not doing it right"!!!
 
Johnnyt...I'm with you. No aiming method works consistently without an accurate and repeatable stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Johnnyt said:
Correct me if I’m wrong here. I say that no matter what way you aim or system you use to pocket balls you still have to be able the hit something about the size of the ball on a ballpoint pen from 6 to 9 foot away or it isn’t going in the pocket. This is why if you take most players that miss 7 and 8 foot cut shots 50% of the time and then teach them an aiming system ONLY, they are still going to miss about 50% of the time. Forget about 1,2, and 3 foot shots, “D” players can make them a good percentage of the time. Show me how you can make long shots unedited with an aiming system close to 100% of the time and I’ll say you have something. Johnnyt
Click to expand...
 
Very accurate post here! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

scottjen26 said:
I'm not sure what the size of the contact point is exactly, or how much leeway you have (obviously dependent on how close the OB is to the pocket). I would guess it's somewhat larger than you describe, otherwise I don't think any of us would make a ball. But I do agree it's a pretty small margin of error on anything more than a foot or two from the pocket, a few degrees at most.

I'm a recent convert to CTE/Pro1, after 20 years of "feel" or GB/track aiming, and I would say that while my percentage of long shots has gone up because of using CTE, and I'm still learning to have confidence in it, it's not nearly as much as the accuracy I've gained with short to medium shots. Two reasons for this - first and foremost, whether sighting a GB, contact point, or aiming line, it's still tougher to do at distance because the OB appears much smaller and the precision required increases because of that perception. Second, no matter what method you are using you still need great mechanics to deliver the cue ball where you are actually aiming, and at distance sometimes you see exactly how bad your mechanics really are... :) For a player with mediocre mechanics, as with someone I briefly showed CTE to the other night, they can sight perfectly every single time but if they can't shoot straight it's not going to matter much.

Scott
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The size of the tip of a ball point pen?
Put the cue ball against an object ball.
Look at the contact area.
Not much more than the tip of a pen.

So, no matter if you have a half ball hit or a very thin cut. The contact area doesn't change. Maybe thats what Johnny meant.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
The size of the tip of a ball point pen?
Put the cue ball against an object ball.
Look at the contact area.
Not much more than the tip of a pen.

So, no matter if you have a half ball hit or a very thin cut. The contact area doesn't change. Maybe thats what Johnny meant.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is exactly what I ment. Also, I was speaking about long cut shots. If your shooting at an OB 6-7' away and cuting it lets say 30 degrees or so, you have to hit a target/contact area pretty close to the size of the ball of a ballpoint pin. At that distance it's not that easy to do with todays pocket size. Johnnyt
 
Long shots are easy to master with any angle, all you have to do is practice for 8 hours a day for several years and study the fundamentals and physics of the game. Just ask efren, it's easy!
 
JesseAllred said:
Not sure what all this "aiming method" talk is about. For many years now I get down on the ball and my body tells me when to pull the trigger, the only time I ever miss is when I don't listen to it.

I'm usually focused on how much fun I'm having and how purely joyous it feels to be going through the motions.

I'm not aware of what kind of aiming i'm doing with the eyes, stick, edge of anything or reference of any kind. Of course that can't be said without a few hundred hours of drills to make all of those things automatic.

If you're STILL focusing on aiming methods and have been playing for anything past a year you're stuck in first gear still, let the clutch out and kick this baby into top gear! I say forget about all that technical stuff and play pool like it was an art and not a science.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Very well said. At some point to play your best, you have to just trust in what you've learned through all those hours of practice whether you utilized aiming systems consciously or not.

If it had to be all science, conscious effort and exact in procedure I don't think pool would be half the fun that it is, at least to me.

Be the artist and let your game flow. It does help some to know your margin for error but to me the real fun is inventing creative ways to work within those confines or even better to get around them.
 
W/O a straight repeatable stroke that you trust 100% the rest is just a crapshoot anyway. If your down on the shot stroking and your thinking, "I hope my stroke is straight", "I hope I'm hitting the CB where I want", your going to miss those long shots a lot. When a player sees you can't make long shots he/she just leaves you long for a safe. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
W/O a straight repeatable stroke that you trust 100% the rest is just a crapshoot anyway. If your down on the shot stroking and your thinking, "I hope my stroke is straight", "I hope I'm hitting the CB where I want", your going to miss those long shots a lot. When a player sees you can't make long shots he/she just leaves you long for a safe. Johnnyt
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You play on a barbox. There is no such thing as a long shot on a barbox.

Yes, you have to stroke straight... thats obvious. I don't really know what the point of these threads are. If you are happy with the way you aim... cool. Keep doing it.
 
cleary said:
You play on a barbox. There is no such thing as a long shot on a barbox.

Yes, you have to stroke straight... thats obvious. I don't really know what the point of these threads are. If you are happy with the way you aim... cool. Keep doing it.
Click to expand...

So it's OK for you to start threads on how you aim and post videos of your aiming system but I'm not too? You guys kill me. Johnnyt
 
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