I agree that there were probably things happening behind the scenes that did affect the performance.
One thing for sure, I know Earl wanted to win at all costs. He wasn't there for a social event. :wink:
Could this man be the Mosconi Messiah
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I agree that there were probably things happening behind the scenes that did affect the performance.
One thing for sure, I know Earl wanted to win at all costs. He wasn't there for a social event. :wink:
You have made some valid points, and I agree with much of what you have written. Winning is *not* everything. It's how you get there that is important when on TV.
One thing for sure, next year will be a brand-new Mosconi Cup experience. It is something to look forward to.
I think you hit on a key word here - work.
I don't know the American players, have never met them, don't know what they're like personally. Like many of the folks here, I've only ever seen them play either on TV, Youtube, or wherever, so I could way off here, but just from observing I don't get the feeling that the Mosconi Cup is approached as work for these guys. It's a week in Las Vegas or a week in London with some pool playing. I get the feeling that there isn't a lot of preparation or work that actually goes into Mosconi Cup. There's no real incentive for these guys to do well other than pride and most pool players are gamblers and most gamblers will tell you that pride might be important, but it doesn't pay real well and they'd rather have money than pride.
I think another problem is consistency. The Europeans have had the same Captain/Coach for, is it about 5 or 6 years now? and there doesn't seem to be much turnover in their team roster, far less chaos. They just seem like a team working for a common goal, whereas the Americans look like a few guys in the same shirt and I have to wonder whether or not they even like each other. What if the Americans had the same Captain/Coach for several years in a row and the same core of players, maybe switching up a maximum of 2 spots each year. The approach is bad, and the results really suck lately.
So this is pool, America vs. The European Union, then there is the Queens Cup - Asia vs. the Western Countries in woman's pool. Are there other international team competitions like the two mentioned for pool or billiards?
It depends upon the playing environment. SOME people say that SOME of the GREATEST sports coaches in the WORLD run their training camps and enforce their playing conditions with "military precision" and "discipline".
That DOESN'T mean that the "CHOSEN" players will be the BEST pool players in the initial "pool" (pun intended) of POSSIBLE candidates.
It ONLY means that the CHOSEN participants will be required to follow STRICT guidelines and those who CHOOSE NOT to get with the program are BOOTED OUT of BOOT CAMP.
If you have a GOAL and only an undertermined amount of time and limited resources in order to ACCOMPLISH it, then there is NO TIME for "buddy buddy" interaction. That may already exist to some point, but it ISN'T necessary. However, if everything WORKS and the players and coach SEES that the plan is WORKING, then the relationships will soon evolve into something a little less FORMAL.
The MISSION is the GOAL...not the relationships between the players themselves and/or the coach.
If I remember correctly, I once read something that Lee Iacocca once said about why he was paid such a high salary for doing SOMETHING that a LOT of OTHER people did for a LOT LESS.
He supposedly said something like, "98 percent of the people can do what I do. It is the 2% that they CAN'T do that I get paid for."
Using that analogy, I would assume that 98% of the world's BEST pool players AREN'T necessarily the BEST coaches or leaders.
You HAVE to make TOUGH decisions and not be "wishy washy". If Earl, SVB, or even Mosconi himself DOESN'T get with the program, then YOU have to have the cajones to THROW him out of Boot Camp and get another recruit.
THAT is the POINT I was trying to make.
IMHO, the coach should NOT be the "play by play" coordinator...that SHOULD be the individual players choices for the most part. The coach SHOULD be the person who makes sure the plan is FOLLOWED. If the plan is FLAWED, then that is ANOTHER story unto itself.
Aloha.
You have made some valid points, and I agree with much of what you have written. Winning is *not* everything. It's how you get there that is important when on TV.
One thing for sure, next year will be a brand-new Mosconi Cup experience. It is something to look forward to.
I am looking forward to it to. I really hope the US team gets it together and shows Europe what we can really do. We have some of the best players in the world. ( For me it how you get there whether anyone is watching or not)
This is a shame because it becomes a "predetermined destiny"
It's seemed to be the trend to look down on Pros last year....I see that changing now, it's just an illusion anyway, pool pros are no different than football, basketball, or hockey pros, just a bit smaller with more teeth ..... and less children.
Money buys great PR teams, and protects athletes....the game of pool has a very poor economy, so like many poor individuals they are naturally looked down on by society.....this is a shame because it becomes a "predetermined destiny" - if people say lies long enough it does produce a response, and it's usually a negative one. 'The Game is my Teacher'
Selecting a coach that pleases industry is one strategy, but I think it will depend on *who* the players are. There must be relationship between the coach and players, I think, in order for the team to be effective. :smile:
As it stands today in 2014, not many people in the American pool culture respect the players.
Any coach will have a tough time developing a team if the team consists of players that are deemed as jobless bums, pariahs, and no-good hustlers.
It's seemed to be the trend to look down on Pros last year....I see that changing now, it's just an illusion anyway, pool pros are no different than football, basketball, or hockey pros, just a bit smaller with more teeth ..... and less children.
Money buys great PR teams, and protects athletes....the game of pool has a very poor economy, so like many poor individuals they are naturally looked down on by society.....this is a shame because it becomes a "predetermined destiny" - if people say lies long enough it does produce a response, and it's usually a negative one. 'The Game is my Teacher'
It's seemed to be the trend to look down on Pros last year....I see that changing now, it's just an illusion anyway, pool pros are no different than football, basketball, or hockey pros, just a bit smaller with more teeth ..... and less children.
Money buys great PR teams, and protects athletes....the game of pool has a very poor economy, so like many poor individuals they are naturally looked down on by society.....this is a shame because it becomes a "predetermined destiny" - if people say lies long enough it does produce a response, and it's usually a negative one. 'The Game is my Teacher'
I agree with you. The thing about AzBilliards population is that the majority are *not* pros, and the pros that do post here, like you and a very few others, sometimes encounter mean-spiritedness or negativity, most times for no reason other than you're a member of the Tribal Nation of Pro Pool Players. Pros are stereotyped BIG TIME on this forum.
I will get castigated for writing the above paragraph, but that's my observation after being on this forum since 2004. Some pros who used to post here don't anymore.
The irony in it all is that the most vocal people who put down pro players are usually the very ones asking them for autographs and photo opportunities. These outspoken people with the negative views of pros are usually the ones that follow the pros around pool tournaments like trained little pigs shadowing the Pied Piper.
It's seemed to be the trend to look down on Pros last year....I see that changing now, it's just an illusion anyway, pool pros are no different than football, basketball, or hockey pros, just a bit smaller with more teeth ..... and less children.
Money buys great PR teams, and protects athletes....the game of pool has a very poor economy, so like many poor individuals they are naturally looked down on by society.....this is a shame because it becomes a "predetermined destiny" - if people say lies long enough it does produce a response, and it's usually a negative one. 'The Game is my Teacher'
Excellent post CJ on the heels of Jam's solid post.
As I've said before (and get your air sickness bags out):
Pro players are playing 3 card monty with 2 cards while 10 squirrels fight over a nut and nobody holds a paddle.
This LOW in US pro pool is going to breed something. It's called the petri dish theory. (Or so I think)
.human nature is an interesting and sometimes complex study
I have a theory that these "Pros" are purely imagined and some like to talk about their own "dark side" by putting them in the context of "Those Darn Pros".....think about it, I actually believe this is true......human nature
is an interesting and sometimes complex study. One thing is sure, many that judge others are actually describing themselves through a lense tinted with rationalizations and justifications. 'The Game is my Teacher'
I agree with you. The thing about AzBilliards population is that the majority are *not* pros, and the pros that do post here, like you and a very few others, sometimes encounter mean-spiritedness or negativity, most times for no reason other than you're a member of the Tribal Nation of Pro Pool Players. Pros are stereotyped BIG TIME on this forum.
I will get castigated for writing the above paragraph, but that's my observation after being on this forum since 2004. Some pros who used to post here don't anymore.
The irony in it all is that the most vocal people who put down pro players are usually the very ones asking them for autographs and photo opportunities. These outspoken people with the negative views of pros are usually the ones that follow the pros around pool tournaments like trained little pigs shadowing the Pied Piper.
I have a theory that these "Pros" are purely imagined and some like to talk about their own "dark side" by putting them in the context of "Those Darn Pros".....think about it, I actually believe this is true......human nature
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Correct!
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you don't know what you don't know....
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you don't know what you don't know....
I agree with you. The thing about AzBilliards population is that the majority are *not* pros, and the pros that do post here, like you and a very few others, sometimes encounter mean-spiritedness or negativity, most times for no reason other than you're a member of the Tribal Nation of Pro Pool Players. Pros are stereotyped BIG TIME on this forum.
I will get castigated for writing the above paragraph, but that's my observation after being on this forum since 2004. Some pros who used to post here don't anymore.
The irony in it all is that the most vocal people who put down pro players are usually the very ones asking them for autographs and photo opportunities. These outspoken people with the negative views of pros are usually the ones that follow the pros around pool tournaments like trained little pigs shadowing the Pied Piper.
I'm a little torn by your post. You know I respect you, and Keith a great deal. You also know from this thread that I, like many others, were unhappy about the way our team behaved this year.
Should the fact that they are pros exempt them from peoples scorn when they get out of line. And where is the line for that matter. How poorly can one act before it is too much?
Anyone who has reached the pro level has my respect due to the work it took for them to get there. I am in awe of what they have accomplished. But that doesn't mean they have a get out of jail free card either. I have no sway in the pool world what so ever. But I do care about the sport. If I didn't I wouldn't bother writing this.
everyone different, but no one's inherently "good or bad,"
Pro Players are normal people just like anyone else. They have been unfortunate to be blessed with an unusual skill in a sport/game/art form that has a very poor economy. The pool economy is a result of poor business decisions....by many past folks. .
The common denominator regarding everyone on earth is we're doing our best relative to situation, environment and experience We're all the same in that regard, and it does make everyone different, but no one's inherently "good or bad," (human anyway) we're just merely surviving. 'The Game is my Teacher'
Pro Players are normal people just like anyone else. They have been unfortunate to be blessed with an unusual skill in a sport/game/art form that has a very poor economy. The pool economy is a result of poor business decisions....by many past folks. .
The common denominator regarding everyone on earth is we're doing our best relative to situation, environment and experience We're all the same in that regard, and it does make everyone different, but no one's inherently "good or bad," (human anyway) we're just merely surviving. 'The Game is my Teacher'
Instead of a co-captain this year that does nothing but collect money for showing up, why don't we send a back-up player in case someone gets sick or gets out of hand and has to be benched. Mark Wilson makes perfect sense to lead and get a new-young American team back on track. Johnnyt
A true coach with team experience is far better than a player captain this has been proven time and time again in many sports
It's not always about putting the best talent together its about putting a team together that can function as one , that beats a team of individuals all day long
I still to this day credit my peewee hockey coach for instilling in me the meaning of team and team work and how it overcame lack of talent by hard work and acting as one
This is what good coaches have a knack for and this is what our MC team needs
Exactly why a guy like Mark fits this bill
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It's not always about putting the best talent together its about putting a team together that can function as one , that beats a team of individuals all day long
I still to this day credit my peewee hockey coach for instilling in me the meaning of team and team work and how it overcame lack of talent by hard work and acting as one
This is what good coaches have a knack for and this is what our MC team needs
Exactly why a guy like Mark fits this bill
1
Very well stated and I agree. Johnnyt
Or as Donald Rumsfeld was quoted as saying (but I think a form of it originated long before he said it):
.. there are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns; that is to say, there are things that we now know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know.
Mark Jarvis?