CSI US Opens, Tunica and the Ultimate 10Ball...

The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Ok I keep hearing rumors that these are all gone.....

Were these press releases, FB posts from the promoters or just pure conjecture at this point?

I know Bonus Ball damaged many people financially and caused some major issues between people and crushed some fields because of timing.... but all I have heard personally are several "maybe" we won't be having "x" again next year because of the players choosing BB over events that had been supportive over prior years......
 
The Renfro said:
Ok I keep hearing rumors that these are all gone.....

Were these press releases, FB posts from the promoters or just pure conjecture at this point?

I know Bonus Ball damaged many people financially and caused some major issues between people and crushed some fields because of timing.... but all I have heard personally are several "maybe" we won't be having "x" again next year because of the players choosing BB over events that had been supportive over prior years......
Click to expand...

Plus only one turningstone. Johnnyt
 
The Renfro said:
Ok I keep hearing rumors that these are all gone.....

Were these press releases, FB posts from the promoters or just pure conjecture at this point?

I know Bonus Ball damaged many people financially and caused some major issues between people and crushed some fields because of timing.... but all I have heard personally are several "maybe" we won't be having "x" again next year because of the players choosing BB over events that had been supportive over prior years......
Click to expand...

here is a link to the start of the conversation. (post #9 and #13) http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4395919#post4395919

Also has been mentioned on Podcasts --- as always you can call Mark to discuss (LOL)
 
Mark posted this yesterday:


"BONUS BALL: ABP / Non-payment - Yesterday, 11:40 AM
I also agree that the way the Bonus Ball went about their business is just plain wrong. Never made any sense in the beginning and still doesn't.

BB never posted the 'millions' of dollars. The players bought into the 'pied piper's pitch'.

This seriously damaged the reputation of many players - although all of us who questioned the busniness plan were just branded as 'haters'.

This was a major portion of the reason why I have decided to not hold the US Open 8-ball and US Open 10-ball for the next year or two.

The ABP needs to figure out who/what they are. Rules are supposed to be consistent - not enforced just willy-nilly.

It is pretty easy to understand - just look at some of the main spokes people and captains. When will this industry and its players learn?

Mark Griffin"
 
Mark Griffin appears to be a man of integrity. When he says or writes something I tend to listen to him. More times than not, I agree with what he has to say. However, this whole fiasco with Bonus Ball and how it has affected his tournaments hasn't really made a lot of sense to me.

I understand that the whole scheduling thing with BB wasn't necessary and it sounds like the turnout for several of his tournaments was down. I just have a hard time understanding how this was solely caused by BB. There has also been several complaints about some of the personalities amoung the professional pool players. Certainly this is nothing new. Promotors have been dealing with this since 9 ball tournaments became popular.

It just seems like there is more going on here than what's on the surface. I tend to think the overall economy has much more to do with things than BB does.

Lastly, when listening to Podcasts with Mark and Justin they both come across as good old fashion Americans. Guys that aren't afraid of a little competition. Over the course of the past year, they have both often spoken of Bonus Ball as if it IS NOT a competitor of theirs. Now we are hearing that Bonus Ball has played a major role is the possible cancellation of several major tournaments. Sounds like they are competitors after all. So, if this the case, why not just return the favor, stop playing nice, and destroy Bonus Ball?

What I find interesting is that the CSI Team is still playing nice with these pros that are forcing them to schedule events around Bonus Ball. Why is that?
 
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Has/can anyone add up the Money in purses that will be missing next year compared to this year...please. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
Plus only one turningstone. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

The Turning Stone is a totally different animal.

The event center will be doing remodeling plus they are booked the remained of the time iirc.

Besides this event always fills up and BB or superball or moneyball or any other ball wouldn't cause them to be without an early waiting list which is the norm.

Hope they go back to the 2 events next time around.

But it will be the casino's decision first and foremost.
 
BasementDweller said:
Mark Griffin appears to be a man of integrity. When he says or writes something I tend to listen to him. More times than not, I agree with what he has to say. However, this whole fiasco with Bonus Ball and how it has affected his tournaments hasn't really made a lot of sense to me.

I understand that the whole scheduling thing with BB wasn't necessary and it sounds like the turnout for several of his tournaments was down. I just have a hard time understanding how this was solely caused by BB. There has also been several complaints about some of the personalities amoung the professional pool players. Certainly this is nothing new. Promotors have been dealing with this since 9 ball tournaments became popular.

It just seems like there is more going on here than what's on the surface. I tend to think the overall economy has much more to do with things than BB does.

Lastly, when listening to Podcasts with Mark and Justin they both come across as good old fashion Americans. Guys that aren't afraid of a little competition. Over the course of the past year, they have both often spoken of Bonus Ball as if it IS NOT a competitor of theirs. Now we are hearing that Bonus Ball has played a major role is the possible cancellation of several major tournaments. Sounds like they are competitors after all. So, if this the case, why not just return the favor, stop playing nice, and destroy Bonus Ball?

What I find interesting is that the CSI Team is still playing nice with these pros that are forcing them to schedule events around Bonus Ball. Why is that?
Click to expand...


You should call Mark and ask.

If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say one gets tired of the constant whining and crying from the so called "pros", and the majority of those that ***** a lot do play bonus ball.

The pros think they deserve more then they get, not the case. They do not fill the stands at events, they are not a draw to watch on a big level. Pool in America is kept alive by amateurs, league players, etc. These are the people that buy products from tiger, predator, OB, omega, ozone, Pooldawg, jbcases, justis, Kamui, and so on, not the pros.

When you go to Vegas per say for the BCA events and there's 6/7000 players there and you have an added pro event and maybe 100 people watch, sweat matches, that does not entitle pros to whine that the payouts are not good, thinking they drew the spectators there because they really drew NOONE there. These 6/7000 players play league all year to go have this great opportunity to be around one another, it's fun, it's vacation, it's pool all in one. The pros did nothing to get them there and never do.

Let me ask you this. If the pros think they are owed so much, and such big events, why are they not out there running their own tour and getting their own sponsors?
 
JumpinJoe said:
You should call Mark and ask.

If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say one gets tired of the constant whining and crying from the so called "pros", and the majority of those that ***** a lot do play bonus ball.

The pros think they deserve more then they get, not the case. They do not fill the stands at events, they are not a draw to watch on a big level. Pool in America is kept alive by amateurs, league players, etc. These are the people that buy products from tiger, predator, OB, omega, ozone, Pooldawg, jbcases, justis, Kamui, and so on, not the pros.

When you go to Vegas per say for the BCA events and there's 6/7000 players there and you have an added pro event and maybe 100 people watch, sweat matches, that does not entitle pros to whine that the payouts are not good, thinking they drew the spectators there because they really drew NOONE there. These 6/7000 players play league all year to go have this great opportunity to be around one another, it's fun, it's vacation, it's pool all in one. The pros did nothing to get them there and never do.

Let me ask you this. If the pros think they are owed so much, and such big events, why are they not out there running their own tour and getting their own sponsors?
Click to expand...

Pretty good post. I remember last time in Vegas I was appalled at the amount of spectators at the pro event. All of those amateurs and none of them watching the elite. Of course it is in VEGAS, but even tournaments in the central of the country seem to lack a lot of support from these bar room league players.
 
There are some statements in this quoted post that I will try to clarify. Our events were NOT down. Bonus Ball did NOT affect our events - other than all the chatter and the BS they caused. The economy did not affect our events by any measureable amount. I have never been afraid of 'fair' competition and neither has Justin.

So there is 'something' going on that might not be readily visible. Basement Dweller did mention the 'personalities' of some of the top players and that promoters have been dealing with that for years. It is also mentioned that CSI is playing nice with these pros.

It is a FACT that I have changed my whole outlook on professional pool and pool players. BB was a major part of that decision. The attitude of the 'pro' players is a major part of that decision. I am just not going to put up with the arrogance and attitudes of so many of the 'pro' players. I will be doing some kind of invitational events -with an international field (maybe 16 players or so).

I will not subject me or my staff to spend close to $90,000 (for the 3 events) and listen to the *****ing BEFORE the event because we charge registration and late fees. And then listen to some of the players comments - often not even based on facts. It's all rather simple, if I do invitational events, I can deal with the players I feel are respectful of the game.

I can only say that the players have no one but themselves to blame. There are about a dozen US players that will NOT be playing in any more of my events. As others have said, they are not a draw, they are very high maintenance and just not worth it.

So there you have it- and that's the truth! And I'm not giving up on pool, just giving up on some of the US pro players. And it is ONLY these players. The foreigners always behave themselves.

I hope this clears things up. I am hoping to continue the US Open One Pocket at a different venue because (in all honestly) they behave themselves and are a credit to the game. They "get it".

Anyone can call me - my hours are not as long but the office number is 702-719-7665.

Mark Griffin

BasementDweller said:
Mark Griffin appears to be a man of integrity. When he says or writes something I tend to listen to him. More times than not, I agree with what he has to say. However, this whole fiasco with Bonus Ball and how it has affected his tournaments hasn't really made a lot of sense to me.

I understand that the whole scheduling thing with BB wasn't necessary and it sounds like the turnout for several of his tournaments was down. I just have a hard time understanding how this was solely caused by BB. There has also been several complaints about some of the personalities amoung the professional pool players. Certainly this is nothing new. Promotors have been dealing with this since 9 ball tournaments became popular.

It just seems like there is more going on here than what's on the surface. I tend to think the overall economy has much more to do with things than BB does.

Lastly, when listening to Podcasts with Mark and Justin they both come across as good old fashion Americans. Guys that aren't afraid of a little competition. Over the course of the past year, they have both often spoken of Bonus Ball as if it IS NOT a competitor of theirs. Now we are hearing that Bonus Ball has played a major role is the possible cancellation of several major tournaments. Sounds like they are competitors after all. So, if this the case, why not just return the favor, stop playing nice, and destroy Bonus Ball?

What I find interesting is that the CSI Team is still playing nice with these pros that are forcing them to schedule events around Bonus Ball. Why is that?
Click to expand...
 
JumpinJoe said:
Let me ask you this. If the pros think they are owed so much, and such big events, why are they not out there running their own tour and getting their own sponsors?
Click to expand...

Because this is common sense and we don't play that shit in the pool world!
 
oldzilla said:
The Turning Stone is a totally different animal.

The event center will be doing remodeling plus they are booked the remained of the time iirc.

Besides this event always fills up and BB or superball or moneyball or any other ball wouldn't cause them to be without an early waiting list which is the norm.

Hope they go back to the 2 events next time around.

But it will be the casino's decision first and foremost.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know they are remodeling, but when the remodeling is over would be a good time to say they can only do one tournament a year if they don't do well from them.
 
JumpinJoe said:
You should call Mark and ask.

If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say one gets tired of the constant whining and crying from the so called "pros", and the majority of those that ***** a lot do play bonus ball.

The pros think they deserve more then they get, not the case. They do not fill the stands at events, they are not a draw to watch on a big level. Pool in America is kept alive by amateurs, league players, etc. These are the people that buy products from tiger, predator, OB, omega, ozone, Pooldawg, jbcases, justis, Kamui, and so on, not the pros.

When you go to Vegas per say for the BCA events and there's 6/7000 players there and you have an added pro event and maybe 100 people watch, sweat matches, that does not entitle pros to whine that the payouts are not good, thinking they drew the spectators there because they really drew NOONE there. These 6/7000 players play league all year to go have this great opportunity to be around one another, it's fun, it's vacation, it's pool all in one. The pros did nothing to get them there and never do.

Let me ask you this. If the pros think they are owed so much, and such big events, why are they not out there running their own tour and getting their own sponsors?
Click to expand...

I have no desire to call Mark. I would rather we all discuss this via the written word on a pool forum. I'm not going lose any sleep over it either way so I wouldn't waste Mark's time with a phone call.

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, I pretty much agree with your assessment of the pro players.

The last question is pretty easy to answer. It's not just pro pool players that feel they are owed so much in our society; it's just about all of us. It's a societal/cultural thing. You think for a second that amateur pool players don't complain about just about everything at their tournaments? They complain just as much if not more. Maybe they aren't as vocal about it but I never hear the end of it.

"Can you believe how small payouts are for this? They are robbing us blind."
"Can you believe they are charging us 3 dollars for a beer?"
"D#%*(#%!!! You mean to tell me I have to put quarters in the table for this tournament???" (I'm guilty of this one)

Anyway - for the most part, pool players (good ones at least) sacrificed their futures to pursue pool greatness. There really aren't that many among them that have the background (education or real world experience) that would enable them to successfully run a pool tour. Many have tried. Some have had marginal success. I just don't see one of them being skilled enough to pull off a sustainable tour. I think they need someone to lead them.
 
Mark Griffin said:
There are some statements in this quoted post that I will try to clarify. Our events were NOT down. Bonus Ball did NOT affect our events - other than all the chatter and the BS they caused. The economy did not affect our events by any measureable amount. I have never been afraid of 'fair' competition and neither has Justin.

So there is 'something' going on that might not be readily visible. Basement Dweller did mention the 'personalities' of some of the top players and that promoters have been dealing with that for years. It is also mentioned that CSI is playing nice with these pros.

It is a FACT that I have changed my whole outlook on professional pool and pool players. BB was a major part of that decision. The attitude of the 'pro' players is a major part of that decision. I am just not going to put up with the arrogance and attitudes of so many of the 'pro' players. I will be doing some kind of invitational events -with an international field (maybe 16 players or so).

I will not subject me or my staff to spend close to $90,000 (for the 3 events) and listen to the *****ing BEFORE the event because we charge registration and late fees. And then listen to some of the players comments - often not even based on facts. It's all rather simple, if I do invitational events, I can deal with the players I feel are respectful of the game.

I can only say that the players have no one but themselves to blame. There are about a dozen US players that will NOT be playing in any more of my events. As others have said, they are not a draw, they are very high maintenance and just not worth it.

So there you have it- and that's the truth! And I'm not giving up on pool, just giving up on some of the US pro players. And it is ONLY these players. The foreigners always behave themselves.

I hope this clears things up. I am hoping to continue the US Open One Pocket at a different venue because (in all honestly) they behave themselves and are a credit to the game. They "get it".

Anyone can call me - my hours are not as long but the office number is 702-719-7665.

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. It definitely cleared things up for me.

I actually think the invitational route may be the way to go in the future anyway.

I'll crawl back down into my basement now.
 
mark and justin good guys

basically mark griffin does good things for pool ,pros and amateur . justin of tar is a good guy too and does good things for pool. maybe mark will tell me i can or cant play his pro events or maybe he never does pro event again thats up to him to decide. i will say this mark and justin have been good to me over the years and hopefully things will work out good for them and myself in future. ive gotten dragged into the politics of abp,bonusball,being charlie williams friend etc. i really try to just golf,dirtbike,streetbike,and play a couple pool tourneys a year and not sweat the small stuff. csi and tar r great for pool and i hope everybody tries to just get along. peace out
 
Mark Griffin said:
...
I will not subject me or my staff to spend close to $90,000 (for the 3 events) and listen to the *****ing BEFORE the event because we charge registration and late fees...
Click to expand...

Mark, I have never run a tournament the size of your huge events, so I can't even comprehend the logistics of it all.

That said, about those late fees, I was thinking about this a while back, a different way to handle it. What if you require all players to sign up by a certain date. If they don't have the entry fee, they can pay the late fee only to reserve a spot. By the time the tournament comes, if they are a no-show or don't have the entry fee, then you pocket the late fee. This way, the player doesn't have to come up with a huge amount up front, if that's what they're complainnig about, but they still have to pay on time. If they pay on time, they get the late fee back. If they don't, you still keep the late fee. You do not refund the late fee, in other words, but the player can use it to reserve a spot, as long as they pay by the due date.

What do you think? :smile:
 
BasementDweller said:
I have no desire to call Mark. I would rather we all discuss this via the written word on a pool forum. I'm not going lose any sleep over it either way so I wouldn't waste Mark's time with a phone call.

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, I pretty much agree with your assessment of the pro players.

The last question is pretty easy to answer. It's not just pro pool players that feel they are owed so much in our society; it's just about all of us. It's a societal/cultural thing. You think for a second that amateur pool players don't complain about just about everything at their tournaments? They complain just as much if not more. Maybe they aren't as vocal about it but I never hear the end of it.

"Can you believe how small payouts are for this? They are robbing us blind."
"Can you believe they are charging us 3 dollars for a beer?"
"D#%*(#%!!! You mean to tell me I have to put quarters in the table for this tournament???" (I'm guilty of this one)

Anyway - for the most part, pool players (good ones at least) sacrificed their futures to pursue pool greatness. There really aren't that many among them that have the background (education or real world experience) that would enable them to successfully run a pool tour. Many have tried. Some have had marginal success. I just don't see one of them being skilled enough to pull off a sustainable tour. I think they need someone to lead them.
Click to expand...

You are correct the amateurs cry too, they always want the best guy eliminate until they are the best. I know first hand we ran a tour the last 3 years in Texas, averaged about 75/80 players per event, I've heard it all, so much so I had to take a break from it this entire year. Now we get the begging to bring it back, it's missed, etc. Especially frustrating when not $1 dollar was made, outside of sponsor products we received. We did it to see joe many players we could get there each time and to give back to the players more then they were used to in the area. It's fun to do, but it's not as easy as people think. Setting up events with venues, getting $ added, the time promoting, etc.
 
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