I specifically remember a Filipino Gentlemen who said that there is a game they play using flat discs and they're taught to aim CTE. He also said some carry that over to pool. Maybe this info has some bearing or not and maybe Hal taught some Filipinos or not. All I know is that CTE / Pro-One exists and to me it's GOLDEN, the rest has no bearing.
CTE aiming.
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I don't buy this answer. You fervently defend Hal and this system, yet when asked to show a 5 minute video which you said would clarify CTE, you refuse. Hal openly teaches this for free, so why would you worry about stepping on his toes when you would simply be furthering his cause. He looks to better pool by giving away this info which you say you have, yet you use him as a scape goat to avoid making a simple video. I believe his system works, and would love to give it a try, but no one but Hal seems willing to GIVE the info away. Doesn't make any sense to me!!!
dave...I never said a WORD about believing anything. What I SAID was I have it recorded on video (and can prove it), Hal Houle specifically saying he taught of the Filipinos his CTE system. Whether he did or didn't I don't know...and it doesn't matter to me. I enjoyed his generous sharing of his time and knowledge with me, and THAT'S what matters to me.
To me this whole thing is blown way out of proportion. Here's what I know to be factual: I know Randyg studied with Hal, and morphed that knowledge into what we now teach...a CTE based aiming method we call SAM (Stick Aiming Method). I know Stan studied with Hal, and morphed that knowledge into what he teaches...a CTE based aiming method he calls Pro ONE. I can tell you that Pro ONE is different than strictly what Hal teaches, and Stan spent a lot of time evaluating and 'massaging' the core concepts, to come up with something he could teach, that works. The final word, imo, is that without a quality, repeatable stroke there is no aiming method on Earth (including "feel") that will work consistently...and that with a quality, repeatable stroke ANY aiming method will work pretty consistently. Most pros use bits and pieces of a few methods.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
To me this whole thing is blown way out of proportion. Here's what I know to be factual: I know Randyg studied with Hal, and morphed that knowledge into what we now teach...a CTE based aiming method we call SAM (Stick Aiming Method). I know Stan studied with Hal, and morphed that knowledge into what he teaches...a CTE based aiming method he calls Pro ONE. I can tell you that Pro ONE is different than strictly what Hal teaches, and Stan spent a lot of time evaluating and 'massaging' the core concepts, to come up with something he could teach, that works. The final word, imo, is that without a quality, repeatable stroke there is no aiming method on Earth (including "feel") that will work consistently...and that with a quality, repeatable stroke ANY aiming method will work pretty consistently. Most pros use bits and pieces of a few methods.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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What I get from this CTE is that on a straight in shot, you stroke through the center of the QB to the center of the OB - no edge involved - easy for me.
For about a 30 degree cut you stroke the center of the CB to the edge of the OB - easy.
For less than 30 degrees, cut to the left, you aim the tip of the shaft one diameter (13 mm) to the right of the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB....then you pivot the shaft til the tip is now centered on the CB and stroke from there.
For greater than 30 degrees, cut to the left, you aim the tip of the shaft one diameter (13 mm) to the left of the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB....then you pivot the shaft til the tip is now centered on the CB and stroke from there.
So if I shoot with an 11 mm shaft diameter, I will get a different cut angle than with a 13 mm shaft diameter for cut angles less or greater than 30 degrees.
I guess I can get CTE to work for all angles if I use various fractional tip diameter offset from the center of the CB and...
Practice
Practice
Practice
Then apply BHE to get English on the shot and....
Practice
Practice
Practice
Not so easy for me.
For about a 30 degree cut you stroke the center of the CB to the edge of the OB - easy.
For less than 30 degrees, cut to the left, you aim the tip of the shaft one diameter (13 mm) to the right of the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB....then you pivot the shaft til the tip is now centered on the CB and stroke from there.
For greater than 30 degrees, cut to the left, you aim the tip of the shaft one diameter (13 mm) to the left of the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB....then you pivot the shaft til the tip is now centered on the CB and stroke from there.
So if I shoot with an 11 mm shaft diameter, I will get a different cut angle than with a 13 mm shaft diameter for cut angles less or greater than 30 degrees.
I guess I can get CTE to work for all angles if I use various fractional tip diameter offset from the center of the CB and...
Practice
Practice
Practice
Then apply BHE to get English on the shot and....
Practice
Practice
Practice
Not so easy for me.
What I get from this CTE is that on a straight in shot, you stroke through the center of the QB to the center of the OB - no edge involved - easy for me.
For about a 30 degree cut you stroke the center of the CB to the edge of the OB - easy.
For less than 30 degrees, cut to the left, you aim the tip of the shaft one diameter (13 mm) to the right of the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB....then you pivot the shaft til the tip is now centered on the CB and stroke from there.
For greater than 30 degrees, cut to the left, you aim the tip of the shaft one diameter (13 mm) to the left of the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB....then you pivot the shaft til the tip is now centered on the CB and stroke from there.
So if I shoot with an 11 mm shaft diameter, I will get a different cut angle than with a 13 mm shaft diameter for cut angles less or greater than 30 degrees.
I guess I can get CTE to work for all angles if I use various fractional tip diameter offset from the center of the CB and...
Practice
Practice
Practice
Then apply BHE to get English on the shot and....
Practice
Practice
Practice
Not so easy for me.
I can peform CTE / Pro-One with my 13.20mm FAT shaft, my friends Z shaft and a 12.75mm shaft all the same.
I really do want to work this out. I first investigated as to whether it was just a hoax and I really do not think so. There's too definitely too many people involved, with different writing styles and grammar idiosyncrasies. The people that use the system say it's an exact system, and without evidence to the contrary I tend to believe them. I even can see why they would be pissed off after reading the posts. It feels like they have spent their time explaining to others and just been subject to people that have not treated their information with respect. I'm going to collate all my information, and do some deep thinking and practising.
The guy I've been working with swears by CTE. A few of his students who were very poor use it and he says that they can consistently make incredible shots. It works for me sometimes and other times not. I think I must not really have it down good/correct and sometimes I must be doing something wrong.
Pete
Pete
Mantis99,
I mean no disrespect to you and the answer is going to sound like it but it's really not aimed at you or any particular person.
Hal Houle is viewed as a benevolent senior member of our extended family by many who have come to know him and reviled as a cantankerous, old curmudgeon by those who never go through the door. The problem in getting through that door is that as an individual you must see past the masks of decades of idiosyncrasies imposed on that particular individual. If you are able to condone some of their "earned" and "unearned" human frailties, you earn the right to look through their eyes at the magnificent life they have lived. It has been my honor and privilege to look through Hal's eyes at an extraordinary life that he has lived.
Hal has entertained and informed me for many years about pool and life. When a man has lived such a long and extraordinary life, he has many things to share with those who make it through the door. For those willing to find out how to get through the door (and it changes from person to person), inside there are windows of the past that you are honored to have the opportunity to look through. To some of us, it is like watching a movie or a maybe a documentary and it fascinates us.
In addition to the fascination that some of us have for our elder statesmen and women, there is also the opportunity to learn. Sometimes we learn things we didn't set out to learn and other times it is exactly what we hoped to learn.
Hal was and is a cherished member of our extened family and he has his wishes and Dave continues to honor those wishes.
I truly admire Dave for sticking to his position.
Hal and I haven't talked in quite some time and I hope he knows that there are many of us who know him and love him for who he is and who he was.
JoeyA
Take heart bro - here in the Halls in the hoods of Los Angeles,
The Electric Slide rules!
The Dance Hallls that is.
Yes, and that's why it's not an exact system and why a majority of shots will be missed unless some intuitive adjustment is made. However you have the stick aligned prior to pivoting, the correct pivot point is on a line from the center of the ghostball through the center of the cueball. Where that line crosses the long axis of the cue, is the place to pivot.
Of course, if you can picture where the ghostball is located with sufficient accuracy to make the shot, on the face of it, there seems to be little point in doing the pre-alignment/pivoting procedure. That's related to the main bone of contention between those who are critical of these types of systems, and those who support them: unless you can come up with some procedure for determining the pivot distance that's not tied to shot geometry (impossible), the system(s) are not exact and rely on the experience and judgment of the player to make the final crucial adjustment, consciously or subconsciously.
That's not to deny that many have found them useful. A long time back, Colin Colenso offered what is probably the most complete list of plausible reasons why they do help some players hone in (and stay on) the final aim line. Unfortunately, most of this has been lost in the often bitter debate as to whether or not the systems are exact.
Jim
Well said and I concur completely.
The other variable is the distance betweeen the QB and OB will change the angle slightly.
My ghost ball changes diameters and is thus not reliable. I prefer to double the distance from the center of the OB to the contact point going to the pocket.
Thanks
Jim,
Excellent post. That summarizes the important points quite well.
FYI, Colin's list, along with good descriptions from others concerning the benefits of "aiming systems," can be found here:
Regards,
Dave
The ghost ball isn't "used" in CTE, but the final aim resulting from CTE or any other "aiming system" must be through the center of the ghost ball, unless the aim has been compensated for squirt, swerve, and throw. The "pivot" must be the right amount to take the cue from the initial alignment line to a line through the ghost-ball center. Otherwise, shots will be missed.
Regards,
Dave
