Do you use any system at all?
CTE ... the complete story
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
Do you use any system at all?
OK, let me try to add something constructive. I'm wondering if people who don't seem to get CTE may be doing something I do myself if I don't execute properly. Sometimes, if I haven't played much for a while, I get into trying to make the balls meet edge to edge because that is what it logically seems they would do. When I aim properly using CTE I try not to subconsciously make any adjustments for how the balls will collide. For me, at least, I have to assume they are going to meet the way I aim.
Probably won't help but I felt the need to try. And, I can, in no way, draw this for anybody, sorry
Probably won't help but I felt the need to try. And, I can, in no way, draw this for anybody, sorry
Are you saying you dont need a cue to do cte line up at all?
Rich Guano
Registered
What's gets easier to pick up the older they get?
Crap! Dog Crap, Bull Crap or CTE, its all CRAP! The reason this method works for some folks is not due to the Placebo Effect, but rather the Ideomotor Effect.
There is no geometric basis built into this method with reference for the location of the pocket into which you are intending to aim the object ball. All that is formulated is a left cut or right cut and wether or not the cut is greater or less than 45 degrees. Therefore your contact point on the object ball is specifically focused on the relationship between the object ball and the cue ball. Think about this, if you line on the same two balls over and over again, you will have the same contact points and therefore the same object ball trejectory. Think about it further line up on the shot, and imagine the target pocket moving, you will need to make small adjustments to compensate. If you don't do this consciously, then you will unconsciously (ideomotor effect).
If this method actually worked as it is stated, then the demonstrator should be able to "split the pocket" "blind". The location of the pocket should be shroaded from the demonstrator with the only information to its location being left or right and less than or greater than 45 degree angle. Do you see why its so important to know where the pocket is, or what part of the pocket you want to aim into. CTE does not take any of this into consideration.
This method "without" subconscious compensation can only make 7 shots. One shot straight in. Three cuts to the left and to the right, greater than, less than and equal to 45 degrees.
Crap! Dog Crap, Bull Crap or CTE, its all CRAP! The reason this method works for some folks is not due to the Placebo Effect, but rather the Ideomotor Effect.
There is no geometric basis built into this method with reference for the location of the pocket into which you are intending to aim the object ball. All that is formulated is a left cut or right cut and wether or not the cut is greater or less than 45 degrees. Therefore your contact point on the object ball is specifically focused on the relationship between the object ball and the cue ball. Think about this, if you line on the same two balls over and over again, you will have the same contact points and therefore the same object ball trejectory. Think about it further line up on the shot, and imagine the target pocket moving, you will need to make small adjustments to compensate. If you don't do this consciously, then you will unconsciously (ideomotor effect).
If this method actually worked as it is stated, then the demonstrator should be able to "split the pocket" "blind". The location of the pocket should be shroaded from the demonstrator with the only information to its location being left or right and less than or greater than 45 degree angle. Do you see why its so important to know where the pocket is, or what part of the pocket you want to aim into. CTE does not take any of this into consideration.
This method "without" subconscious compensation can only make 7 shots. One shot straight in. Three cuts to the left and to the right, greater than, less than and equal to 45 degrees.
I like your aluminum foil idea, but this idea sounds like baloney to me. :shakehead:I've heard a slice of baloney inside your left shoe helps too
Dave
But, you can "feel" the correct amount of pivot necessary to make the shot using CTE?
There isn't any difference in you aiming at a specific point on the OB and pivoting by "feel" to make the shot, than it is to aim at the OB line to the pocket and shooting the CB to that spot.
Feel eventually becomes habit when you practice enough.
Scott,
I appreciate your comments, but I still refuse to believe that these systems cannot be described in words and/or be simply illustrated with diagrams (2D drawings or 3D images), photographs, and/or short video demonstrations.
Regards,
Dave
PS: An example description of SAM can be found here:
I think this could easily be described in even simpler terms, especially with diagrams and demonstrations. All I'm asking for is a clear and simple description of CTE. If it is easy to demonstrate, it should also be easy to describe and/or illustrate.
Maybe I am guilty of "coddling to sensitive feelings of system user." Like you, I also like being candid, but I try to do so in a respectful way, where possible. I just don't like it when you give the CTE followers more reasons to be defensive and hostile. This let's them avoid the questions even more.
Dave
I bet PJ has tried everything he has heard about CTE, because I know he is a true student of the game, and he seems very open-minded to me (when he is not being "candid"). I have certainly tried everything I have read, seen, and heard (from Hal, Stan, Ron, Spidey, and others) about CTE and related systems. When I follow the instructions, I do make many shots (especially shots well suited to the system, and/or shots close to pockets), but I also miss many shots if I don't make corrections to the prescribed aim.
Regards,
Dave
Rich Guano...It is not necessary to know where the pocket is. It is only necessary to understand the exit angle of the shot. When Hal Houle first demonstrated this concept to randyg, Hal did "hide" the pocket from sight. He had a cotton sheet, on a wire, across the table, obscuring both side pockets, and the two corner pockets, at the far end of the table. Hal instructed Randyg on what the exit angle was, and Randyg shot the appropriate aim, without being able to see the pocket. After pocketing balls for 30+ minutes this way, Randyg saw that there was some solid context to this approach, and used what he learned, to develop SAM (Supplemental Aiming Method), which we have been teaching now for several years.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Untrue, nonetheless.
Frankly, I doubt that Hal told you that. The one time I have spoken to him he seemed like a nice guy - not the kind who would make up stories about others. You, on the other hand (whoever you are)...
pj
chgo
I agree, hide the pocket, ball still goes. Thers a gamble, making balls with the pocket hidden, any takers going to be in vegas for APA aug. 23-26
The baloney filled shoes, the decoder rings and the foil hats don't help either.
Rich Guano
Registered
Please define "understand the exit angle". And describe what you do with this information.
Well, let's be honest. If Dr. Dave could get a good description of CTE or any other aiming system, he could put it on his website. This would help more people (ie; build more traffic at his website). Nothing wrong with that unless it's taking food off of someone else's plate.
Even then Dr Dave would still need to hire Genomachino, the author of "Perfect Aim" to really make any serious money.
JoeyA
I'm not posting any specifics because this thread is a shit storm of non-knowing people who are crying the blues over people not telling them the info. Here are some nuggets for the haters anyway....
1. CTE and Ron Vitello's system are IDENTICAL systems. RonV teaches and applies his info in a unique / different way. It's the same system, however.
2. Francisco Bustamante uses a modified CTE - much closer to a Pro1 (L2R) style pivot. Most players grow out of the pivot and air-pivot but he always liked the mechanical turn.
3. The pivot is a variable - never pivoted directly from the bridge unless you're lucky with that exact shot.
4. CTE can't be proven with Cuetable because the edges on 2D balls are fixed. In 3D space, the visual edge of the OB changes the moment your head moves a little bit. That "new edge" is the second variable.
5. There is a method for bridge hand placement (there has to be). Unfortunately the man who clued me in is banned for life here and it's not my info to share.
Ya know, after seeing the success of Gene the Machine with his Perfect Aim.... maybe I'm missing the boat on this thing. Seems like everyone in this thread wants the info... including Dr. Dave.
If anyone wants to come see me in PA and get an education, pay me and I'll bring ya into the loop and answer every question in this thread. I've grinded for 3 years to learn everything about this information and traveled across the country to get it. I've tracked down a Filipino or two to learn some modifications and new styles. If you think of CTE as a language, there are many dialects. If you're looking for someone to come on here and post a how-to book for free.... you have a better chance of getting run-over by a submarine on Las Vegas Blvd.
So, unlike some others--- I could care less if everyone on earth thinks of CTE as a placebo. Have at it. Good luck with your search and have fun aiming the way you normally do. I'm sure it's the move.
P.S. If anyone takes me up on this, I'd donate 100% of the $ to Hal and his lovely wife. That man should be in the HOF for this info.
1. CTE and Ron Vitello's system are IDENTICAL systems. RonV teaches and applies his info in a unique / different way. It's the same system, however.
2. Francisco Bustamante uses a modified CTE - much closer to a Pro1 (L2R) style pivot. Most players grow out of the pivot and air-pivot but he always liked the mechanical turn.
3. The pivot is a variable - never pivoted directly from the bridge unless you're lucky with that exact shot.
4. CTE can't be proven with Cuetable because the edges on 2D balls are fixed. In 3D space, the visual edge of the OB changes the moment your head moves a little bit. That "new edge" is the second variable.
5. There is a method for bridge hand placement (there has to be). Unfortunately the man who clued me in is banned for life here and it's not my info to share.
Ya know, after seeing the success of Gene the Machine with his Perfect Aim.... maybe I'm missing the boat on this thing. Seems like everyone in this thread wants the info... including Dr. Dave.
If anyone wants to come see me in PA and get an education, pay me and I'll bring ya into the loop and answer every question in this thread. I've grinded for 3 years to learn everything about this information and traveled across the country to get it. I've tracked down a Filipino or two to learn some modifications and new styles. If you think of CTE as a language, there are many dialects. If you're looking for someone to come on here and post a how-to book for free.... you have a better chance of getting run-over by a submarine on Las Vegas Blvd.
So, unlike some others--- I could care less if everyone on earth thinks of CTE as a placebo. Have at it. Good luck with your search and have fun aiming the way you normally do. I'm sure it's the move.
P.S. If anyone takes me up on this, I'd donate 100% of the $ to Hal and his lovely wife. That man should be in the HOF for this info.
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very good explanation. the one thing that i will add is that i've found, through experience, that it isn't necessary to find the correct edge for the pivot to be successful. it is much easier for me to visualize the cue ball path angle, off of the object ball, and the 1 1/8" "tail" in the line of aim, extending from the edge of object ball, than to find the edge. i've found in trying to explain the method to friends that they are perplexed by the concept of shifting edges, and they will have the most trouble with blind pocket shots or angled shots near the rail, overcutting the former and undercutting the latter. i'll be forever grateful for the kindness and warmth that hal and his wife showed me a couple of years ago, and a big regret of mine is that i've failed to keep in regular contact with him.
Well said, Spidey!!