Cuemaker ethics - what do you really make?

This would really depend to me on who the cue makers were. On ethics I think you gotta make the customer aware, and in some cases the customer might be happy as pie and in other cases they might be getting hosed.

Lets say you are buying some cue from a hugely famous and well respected cue maker whose work is extremely colectable. Said cue maker has a waiting list longer then Fatboy's banking statement. So he contracts out some work to another cue maker, not as famous or as collectable. You get a cue that has a forarm that is largely made by the other cue maker, then shipped to the famous cue maker you ordered the cue from, the pieces are assembled the joint work done, the cue turned a few times and finished and sold to you.

Now, this type of thing WILL affect the value of your cue tremendously compared to a cue that was made from square one to the end by the famous and collectable cue maker. If the collectors of the world can tell which cues were 100% the famous guy and which were largely contracted out your cue is going to be far less valuable.

Now the flip side? If you order a cue from some unfamous and non-collectable cue maker and it just so happens to be made by the ghost of Jerry Frankin, then you scored a win there. But the famous cue makers are the ones swamped with orders and if work is contracted out like this it is probably going the wrong direction for the customers.
 
Roger Long said:
Hu,

I had to read your post two or three times before I could see that you are not disagreeing with me. As usual, you are one insightful man.

Also, I intend to introduce a new cue line later this year that will not use points or inlays, but will feature some design work in the forearms that I will need to have done by someone other than myself. Now will that mean I am not a true cue maker? :wink:
Roger
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Roger,

I don't know if you will all of a sudden no longer be a cue maker or builder, I'm still trying to figure out if short splices are assembled or built. The rough work that is done on one before you buy it seems more like assembly and rough turning to me but if I can get a few hundred for them I'll certainly change how I feel about it! :grin:

Sold my big machines when I sold my last shop, down to a little workroom until my new shop is built but I think I can create mighty fine short splices using my NC router which I should have running soon. I'll be using BobCad and Bob Art for rough-in so I may be able to create some pretty cool stuff.

Sorry for any confusion earlier, dry doesn't translate well on the internet. :rolleyes:

Hu
 
I don't know what all the complaining is about...

Julio Strombolini and Robert Weir didn't even build their own cues.... but the latter had a cool almost Van Halen like insignia...

JV
 
Its time to kill this thread.Its going nowhere.Stop the sniping.buy from who you want and do your homework.
 
Like I said in an earlier post. I am completely upfront and honest with my customers. It the only way to be. I would suggest that anyone that is going to be ordering a custom cue to do your home work! Ask the builder everything that you want to know. Get the answeres your looking for from a builder. And check references!! If at all posible make a trip to the builders shop! Most fo us dont mind having a customer stop in and check out our shops!! I know I dont mind at all! Anyone and everyone is welcome! This is the best forum for our industry. Use it to your advantage! I am in the process of moving my shop to Shooters in Olathe Ks. So any of you are in the area please stop by and introduce yoruself and check my new shop!!!

Thanks!!!
 
classiccues said:
I don't know what all the complaining is about...

Julio Strombolini and Robert Weir didn't even build their own cues.... but the latter had a cool almost Van Halen like insignia...

JV
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Its actually almost identical to one of the logos for Weezer.
 
I think it's funny how people state something without proof. Then when called out they have nothing to say. Why say anything???

If you know so much please tell us. I know you've been online since my last post so I'm sure you read my post.

Stop hiding and spill the beans or go back to you hole and stay there!!!!
 
dave sutton said:
For the record i dont think there is a cuemaker getting 2500$ that dont make thier own points.
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DAVE, trust me, hundreds, if not thousands of cues (not inclusive of G. SZAMS and BALA'S) have sold for in excess of 25 hun and the maker DIDN'T make the points.

In deferance to friends and/or old business associates i won't be specific.

DISCLOSURE, esp. in this instant info age, is of paramount importance because credibility is very hard to retrieve once lost.
 
Celtic said:
This would really depend to me on who the cue makers were. On ethics I think you gotta make the customer aware, and in some cases the customer might be happy as pie and in other cases they might be getting hosed.

Lets say you are buying some cue from a hugely famous and well respected cue maker whose work is extremely colectable. Said cue maker has a waiting list longer then Fatboy's banking statement. So he contracts out some work to another cue maker, not as famous or as collectable. You get a cue that has a forarm that is largely made by the other cue maker, then shipped to the famous cue maker you ordered the cue from, the pieces are assembled the joint work done, the cue turned a few times and finished and sold to you.

Now, this type of thing WILL affect the value of your cue tremendously compared to a cue that was made from square one to the end by the famous and collectable cue maker. If the collectors of the world can tell which cues were 100% the famous guy and which were largely contracted out your cue is going to be far less valuable.

Now the flip side? If you order a cue from some unfamous and non-collectable cue maker and it just so happens to be made by the ghost of Jerry Frankin, then you scored a win there. But the famous cue makers are the ones swamped with orders and if work is contracted out like this it is probably going the wrong direction for the customers.
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IIRC, your example comes very close to discribing George Balabushka. Remember, when he was buying blanks from Gus Szamboti and Burton Spain, neither of those guys were very famous. You never know who will become famous in the cue making business. An unknown making blanks today may be the superstar cue maker of tomorrow.

A number of cue makers either buy blanks or have one of their assistants make the blanks in their shop. Frankly, when a cue maker has several people working in his shop, you never know who is doing what work on a cue. When the cue maker puts his name on the finished cue, he is taking responsibility for it and he is saying that it meets his approval. What is the big deal?
 
The thread was interesting for some ppl (i bet)- but it is sad that the postings getting a bit aggressive.

cool down guys-
It made sense to start this thread- and it was informative for many ppl (think many didn t know several things). But absolutly no reason for getting aggressive- a little bit respect to everyone during a discussion would make it much nicer and easier.

Ingo
 
Adam. I'm sure they are out there. ESP older cues. However. Today. Top notch makers. Makers that have been around for 40 years. For example. There is not way that are producing the high end cues they are and can't make thier own forearms.
 
Huh? What are you talking? Aggressive? That's the whole reason I started making cues! I wanted to argue on here everyday with people I don't even know and insult them till I'm blue in the face by showing them how much I know and how wrong the other guy's point is.

I live for it everyday man. As a matter of fact, I can't wait to get out of bed in the morning and read what someone typed about me just so I can think of a clever comeback that is totally beside the original point. Taking offense to something and proving just how right I am is the true essence of AZ. Didn't you know? Don't know why you have to play the innocent nice guy. Take your panties off jump in this orgy-fest of roller derby here on AZ! You might like it!:wink:

P.S. The most fun thing is to say something that might be inaccurate, but what the hell, I'll take a crap shoot just to insult the guy because he may sound like a cocky know-it-all to me, just to put him in his place. Then, when my bluff is called, I disappear and pretend to take the high road cause, 'whew!' I coulda really been embarrassed about that one!

Basically what it comes down to, is, we are all still in the 3rd Grade.

Ratta said:
The thread was interesting for some ppl (i bet)- but it is sad that the postings getting a bit aggressive.

cool down guys-
It made sense to start this thread- and it was informative for many ppl (think many didn t know several things). But absolutly no reason for getting aggressive- a little bit respect to everyone during a discussion would make it much nicer and easier.

Ingo
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dave sutton said:
I think it's funny how people state something without proof. Then when called out they have nothing to say. Why say anything???
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It's because he (Bogey) knows you're wrong, wants to tell you you're wrong, but at the same time is conflicted with potentially harming someone else's business.

Dave, maybe Chris and Ross aren't getting the credibility that they deserve. They should, but that's neither here nor there. What I can say is that you're asking or suggesting that someone mentions a name of a cuemaker that sells or has sold a cue for $1000 that didn't make the forearm, as if it doesn't happen.

As a guy who has interviewed over five dozen cuemakers for published cuemaker articles, I can tell you without a hitch or pause, it happens. Cuemaker build blanks for a couple others. Some contract shafts or other major parts. Some have production companies spray and finish. And no, I'm not disclosing. That's not up to me.

So, I'd ask to drop that line of questioning. It happens. Move back to the original question.

Fred <~~~ no idea who built my Meucci
 
Cornerman said:
It's because he (Bogey) knows you're wrong, wants to tell you you're wrong, but at the same time is conflicted with potentially harming someone else's business.

Dave, maybe Chris and Ross aren't getting the credibility that they deserve. They should, but that's neither here nor there. What I can say is that you're asking or suggesting that someone mentions a name of a cuemaker that sells or has sold a cue for $1000 that didn't make the forearm, as if it doesn't happen.

As a guy who has interviewed over five dozen cuemakers for published cuemaker articles, I can tell you without a hitch or pause, it happens. Cuemaker build blanks for a couple others. Some contract shafts or other major parts. Some have production companies spray and finish. And no, I'm not disclosing. That's not up to me.

So, I'd ask to drop that line of questioning. It happens. Move back to the original question.

Fred <~~~ no idea who built my Meucci
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If made between 92 (est) and 07 prolly by an illiterate in Sledge, Ms., but, on the bright side you played a part in saving the planet because no wood was utilized in the manufacturing process during that time frame.
 
Cornerman said:
It's because he (Bogey) knows you're wrong, wants to tell you you're wrong, but at the same time is conflicted with potentially harming someone else's business.

Dave, maybe Chris and Ross aren't getting the credibility that they deserve. They should, but that's neither here nor there. What I can say is that you're asking or suggesting that someone mentions a name of a cuemaker that sells or has sold a cue for $1000 that didn't make the forearm, as if it doesn't happen.

As a guy who has interviewed over five dozen cuemakers for published cuemaker articles, I can tell you without a hitch or pause, it happens. Cuemaker build blanks for a couple others. Some contract shafts or other major parts. Some have production companies spray and finish. And no, I'm not disclosing. That's not up to me.

So, I'd ask to drop that line of questioning. It happens. Move back to the original question.

Fred <~~~ no idea who built my Meucci
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Some have inlays and logos done for them......
 
my point is not exactly to get a name. my point was he came on here implying i was doing something wrong. he happened to get the 1 cue i made with someone elses blank he sold it as a jerry rauenzahn cue. i contacted him and told him jerry didnt make the cue i did. the cue was a throw in cue on a trade for other bigger cues and was fully disclosed. its the only cue i have out there with a blank i didnt make. so either he sold the cue as a jerry knowing i made it or didnt he didnt do anything about it after i told him

edit: without erasing anything i want to say i dont know if he didnt tell the buyer but i will find out....

here is the cue. matt_24 got it. i told him contact the buyer
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=83102&highlight=rauenzahn


so... heres my point. if he thinks he knows so much about me... makes me wonder what he thinks he knows about others

sorry but im aiming twards not much...
 
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