Do you take advice from players below your level?

CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Recently I was playing with a friend and later that night I said something like "you seem to get the cue ball where you're trying to move it... but I don't like some of your choices for positional routes".

She came back with "I don't like your position routes. You don't always play for the easy sensible shape. And you seem like you go more rails than you need to, always following with the cue ball and playing these 2 and 3 rail shapes when you don't have to. And you don't draw enough" ...etc.

Here's the thing. I'm a solid B. But I don't have a big stroke and I play much better 8 ball than 9 ball. She plays a couple of speeds below me but does much much more 9 ball. I won't say she beats me at 9 ball but she can break and run sometimes. Also she has reached that level in just 2-3 years and it took 11 to get where I am.

So, do I listen to her even though I beat her pretty solidly?

PS: hope she's not reading this and getting offended. I wouldn't be asking at all if I didn't take her seriously :)
 
"Learn everything and then use what works" -Bruce Lee

Advice from players below your level may be hard to swallow but you can learn something from just about anyone. I would definitely listen to what she says and then take a good look at what you have been doing and figure out where she is correct.

I am pretty sure that most of the instructors out there are not world beaters but I am betting a few world beaters still like to use them since they see things from outside of the internal perspective which allows them to broaden their students horizons.
 
getting the perspective from anyone who is paying attention when you shoot is a good thing.

how sure are you that you are playing the proper patterns?
are you throwing the cue around when small draw or stops shots are all you really need?

it is NEVER wrong to hear someone else out.
 
Absolutely...

There is always something to be learned...

I can think of a couple shots that I actually saw drunks shoot on accident and now I shoot them a lot....
 
consider it

I do not take into account a players skill level in these situations as much as knowledge.Beyond knowledge and experience there is the fact that some players are just perceptive and are able to notice things that other players might not.

Your disagreement is mainly philosophical and it sounds like you both are at least partly right.

There are a lot of things that factor into playing "smart".Your skills,your opponents skills,odds.I have noticed that people will say with absolute certainty that someone else played the wrong shot or that they should do something different but they may be only considering their own skill set.

Not long ago I watched a guy loose a 1P game and the match on a kick shot.I told him afterward that he played the wrong shot.We argued back and forth while he was practicing the same shot.He executed the shot 5 or 6 times in a row and I realized although it was the wrong shot for me it was the right shot for him because of his extremely fine kicking skills.
 
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CreeDo said:
Recently I was playing with a friend and later that night I said something like "you seem to get the cue ball where you're trying to move it... but I don't like some of your choices for positional routes".

She came back with "I don't like your position routes. You don't always play for the easy sensible shape. And you seem like you go more rails than you need to, always following with the cue ball and playing these 2 and 3 rail shapes when you don't have to. And you don't draw enough" ...etc.

Here's the thing. I'm a solid B. But I don't have a big stroke and I play much better 8 ball than 9 ball. She plays a couple of speeds below me but does much much more 9 ball. I won't say she beats me at 9 ball but she can break and run sometimes. Also she has reached that level in just 2-3 years and it took 11 to get where I am.

So, do I listen to her even though I beat her pretty solidly?

PS: hope she's not reading this and getting offended. I wouldn't be asking at all if I didn't take her seriously :)
Click to expand...

You have to look at her advice objectively and decide if it is sound for yourself. It's something you have to do with everyone, even good players.

But without seeing you play and judging by her advice, I would be skeptical. Is she referring to those 2 rail shots where your actually sending the cue ball into the line of your next shot, rather than coming accross it? Following that advice will set you back. Finally, maybe those tough shots she says you play for aren't actually tough for you.

But then again she could be right. Based it on concrete examples, and also how much knoweledge she has.
 
CreeDo,

Listen to the message and not the messenger. I find it interesting that she is the 9 Ball player and your the 8 Ball player yet she's saying you go too many rails for position. Just sounds like an unusual thing for a 9 Ball player to say to an 8 Ball player.

But if you don't think you do that tell her she's insightful for noticing, that there is a reason you will occasionally use more rails than appears necessary in playing shape, and then explain to her the concept of playing along the line of position rather than across it. :wink:
 
I was beating a friend for money at 8 ball 9 ball 14.1 and one pocket for cash for months when he introduced 3 ball to me and took my cash. I broke controlled and he murdered the balls and even made all 3 when the pot was huge. He asked if I wanted to learn his break and was suddenly an attentive student.

I've never seen someone relish a moment more.
 
What you know and what you can execute are often very different.

If i could get my hands to do what my brain tells them to do consistently, I would be a couple speeds better than I am.

Listen to advice. Whether you take it to heart is up to you.


:cool:
 
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit. Ya don't listen to no damn girl that can't play!

(Yes. But don't let anybody know about it. :groucho: You know that.... why you askin?)
 
Inadequate skills for 3-ball?

Luxury said:
I was beating a friend for money at 8 ball 9 ball 14.1 and one pocket for cash for months when he introduced 3 ball to me and took my cash. I broke controlled and he murdered the balls and even made all 3 when the pot was huge. He asked if I wanted to learn his break and was suddenly an attentive student.

I've never seen someone relish a moment more.
Click to expand...

Just kidding. I love 3-ball. I can't get anybody in my room interested .
But he's right . The more those 3 balls bang around the table the more chance they have of going in.
 
I see a sharks fin

CreeDo said:
Recently I was playing with a friend and later that night I said something like "you seem to get the cue ball where you're trying to move it... but I don't like some of your choices for positional routes".

She came back with "I don't like your position routes. You don't always play for the easy sensible shape. And you seem like you go more rails than you need to, always following with the cue ball and playing these 2 and 3 rail shapes when you don't have to. And you don't draw enough" ...etc.

Here's the thing. I'm a solid B. But I don't have a big stroke and I play much better 8 ball than 9 ball. She plays a couple of speeds below me but does much much more 9 ball. I won't say she beats me at 9 ball but she can break and run sometimes. Also she has reached that level in just 2-3 years and it took 11 to get where I am.

So, do I listen to her even though I beat her pretty solidly?

PS: hope she's not reading this and getting offended. I wouldn't be asking at all if I didn't take her seriously :)
Click to expand...

There are certain things a player of lesser skills but adequate knowledge can tell you through observation. Like , jumping up on shots ,shooting too quick , changing your routine, etc. But shot choice and other strategic choices are your own and you should not have to justify why you took a certain path.
Sounds like she's learning how to shark pretty quick too.
 
I have learned almost as much by watching lesser players do things accidentally as I have watching good players. You just have to have an open mind and really pay attention.
 
It happens so exceedingly rarely, but I think pretty much everyone in this thread has been posting the truth.

Good advice is good advice, no matter who it comes from, and the same is true of bad advice. The more you know about pool, the better you get at discerning the difference between good advice and bad advice. You're a knowledgeable player, so you should be able to analyze how her advice fits your game and ability level, and find out if she's right about some of your positional choices, and make changes accordingly.

-Andrew
 
1on1pooltournys said:
There is always something to be learned...

I can think of a couple shots that I actually saw drunks shoot on accident and now I shoot them a lot....
Click to expand...

This, being a good student is being able to take something away from any situation.....the best, in any sport or even business, can listen to someone talk 90% BS, disregard all the BS, and learn something from the other 10% that has value.....

The best position route is the one you can repeat over and over, with confidence....
 
I never did until one time I was watching a friend of mine playing One Pocket when one of the other railbirds yelled out. "Your shoe's untied."
Well, my friend paid him no mind at all, kept on playing, and wouldn't you know it he tripped on his shoelace and fell headlong into a Gold Crown IV, fracturing his skull. The last I heard of him he was selling pencils on a street corner somewhere downtown.
Since then I allways listen to good advice, sometimes. :thumbup:
 
Without knowing either of you all I can say is if she is seeing simple natural shape to your regular 2/3 rail english , I'd start wondering what I was missing.

I usually play for short simple shape. If I'm not getting that I'm usually doing something wrong or falling into bad habits. Especially in 8 ball. Besides breakouts , with a good break , 90% of an 8 ball rack should be darn near stop shots.
 
Learn from everything

I agree that morsels of knowledge can be picked up in the oddest of places. I was once told that Mosconi said, " If you want to learn a new shot, watch an amateur." I agree.
But I don't think Mosconi would think highly of the amateur actively volunteering his advice such as we're talking about. If your friend did come up with a valuable nugget , try it out in secret . If it works , incorporate it into your game. But NEVER thank her or even let her know that she was right. :nono:
 
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