Earl Strickland

[JAM]

Unless you walk in the shoes of a professional pool player and experience life as one, you will NEVER understand it fully.

It is easy to say that pro players should get out there and promote themselves a la Jeanette Lee, as if that's all it takes. Well, it takes a little more than that if you are a male pro player. It is NOT possible -- I repeat -- NOT possible to earn a decent wage playing pool competitively.

I am pleased to see Earl and Johnny doing the pool school at a decent cost to the consumer, unlike other so-called pool schools I have read about on this forum who shall remain unnamed.

For less than a handful of American pro-caliber players who can make a profit in the pool world, I have a great deal of respect for, but for the rest of those who are sharing a hotel room to cut down on expenses, sleeping on the floor, playing challenge matches for a 20- or 30-percent cut now commonplace and offered by stakehorses, and eating at McDonald's, just to keep on the tournament trail, it is quite a different story.

I am sure a pool detective and his buddies will come out of the woodwork and state my opinion is false, but in the words of many a pro player who have read this forum, some members who post here just don't have a clue. They really do not have a clue.

One thing to throw into the fray is the top six women pros in America earn more money playing competitively than an American male pro because they actually have a professional tour. Last time I checked, there is no professional tour for the men in the United States.

 

[watchez]

2008 Player Money List
Player Name 2008 Prize Money
Ralf Souquet $171,852
Mika Immonen $149,582
Shane Van Boening $147,420
Darren Appleton $128,751
Niels Feijen $123,775
Dennis Orcollo $99,942
Francisco Bustamante $83,403
Chia-Ching Wu $72,588
Alex Pagulayan $71,780
Johnny Archer $70,745
Jian-Bo Fu $69,650
Rodney Morris $63,942
Tony Drago $62,444
Ching-Shun Yang $61,400
Karen Corr $61,000
Mark Gray $56,440
Kelly Fisher $54,500
Ronnie Alcano $54,410
Jung-Lin Chang $54,300
Gabe Owen $51,865
Corey Deuel $51,300
Allison Fisher $45,350
Jasmin Ouschan $44,059
Stevie Moore $42,155
Mike Davis $41,515
Jeremy Jones $41,260

(if AZ money list is incorrect, someone please let Mike H. know)

I wish BFDLAD would devulge where Johnny and Earl fit into this year's money list, on the earnings of their Legends Tour. I can fully understand why he wouldn't. I am not going to say how much I personally make.

I agree fully with bfdlad, Earl shouldn't have to play another tournament if he doesn't want to. Take a guess who the highest paid athlete was for years - all due to endorsements. Arnold Palmer. Arnold used his titles and his fan base to make millions beyond his years having the ability to compete.

But getting out there and making a living from pool can be done. Even if you don't want to get out there and sell yourself and do pool exhibitions, etc. Yes, there is expenses to travel and attend. There are expenses to travel and attend any job. Expenses for proper clothing. Expenses for lots of things. If I was a player going to say, the DCC, for a week I would stay at an extended stay hotel nearby. I did a quick search and you could get a room for $275 for 7 days. Split between someone else, that is $137.50 a person.

 

[bfdlad]

When we began the Legends and Champions Pool Tour, we did it for the pool and billiards community and thought we would maybe make a little extra $$ since there wasn't much in the way of Tourneys. We said it has to be affordable for all concerned, the average pool player, the pool room so we can hold an exhibition etc. I believe that is exactly what we have done. And begining by doing it for the love of the game it has turned around and has become very profitable. We have quite a few things that are coming very close to completion that will hopefully again affect the pool and billiards community in a good way.
I know that there are ALOT of people out there doing there part in a much bigger way than I am trying to do and for alot less $$. I hope that one day when the Pool biz turns around and the economy gets better that we don't forget the people out there running weekly tourneys, websites like this one, pool magazines etc. They should be the ones that we all support and not some yahoo who all of a sudden sees $$ but has no passion for the game and tries to step in.

By the way, not everyone sees the value in everything, I personally would pay $100.00 to have Keith run out on me and say "It's like a nightmare isn't it?" half way through. Just to say I did it. Earl and Keith would make a great show I think. Just playing each other everynight in different pool rooms. Sell tee shirts etc with their faces on it. There you see, it just takes someone to set it up. Theres 2 greats with a 7 day job every other month and no need to play. It would not be a great living but less risk than a tourney. Rambling sorry.

 

[bfdlad]

2008 Player Money List
Player Name 2008 Prize Money
Ralf Souquet $171,852
Mika Immonen $149,582
Shane Van Boening $147,420
Darren Appleton $128,751
Niels Feijen $123,775
Dennis Orcollo $99,942
Francisco Bustamante $83,403
Chia-Ching Wu $72,588
Alex Pagulayan $71,780
Johnny Archer $70,745
Jian-Bo Fu $69,650
Rodney Morris $63,942
Tony Drago $62,444
Ching-Shun Yang $61,400
Karen Corr $61,000
Mark Gray $56,440
Kelly Fisher $54,500
Ronnie Alcano $54,410
Jung-Lin Chang $54,300
Gabe Owen $51,865
Corey Deuel $51,300
Allison Fisher $45,350
Jasmin Ouschan $44,059
Stevie Moore $42,155
Mike Davis $41,515
Jeremy Jones $41,260

(if AZ money list is incorrect, someone please let Mike H. know)

I wish BFDLAD would devulge where Johnny and Earl fit into this year's money list, on the earnings of their Legends Tour. I can fully understand why he wouldn't. I am not going to say how much I personally make.

I agree fully with bfdlad, Earl shouldn't have to play another tournament if he doesn't want to. Take a guess who the highest paid athlete was for years - all due to endorsements. Arnold Palmer. Arnold used his titles and his fan base to make millions beyond his years having the ability to compete.

But getting out there and making a living from pool can be done. Even if you don't want to get out there and sell yourself and do pool exhibitions, etc. Yes, there is expenses to travel and attend. There are expenses to travel and attend any job. Expenses for proper clothing. Expenses for lots of things. If I was a player going to say, the DCC, for a week I would stay at an extended stay hotel nearby. I did a quick search and you could get a room for $275 for 7 days. Split between someone else, that is $137.50 a person.

Obviously I can't say about what their $$ is but it would maybe suprise you on how well they did with T-Shirt sales, Signed ball sales basically merchansising.
Most of the players on that list have quite a bit of other income.

 

[JAM]

For pro players, especially American pro players, to earn $100,000 per annum playing competitive pool in tournaments, as reflected on AzBilliards Main Page, to use a flat figure of $100,000, they could easily incur close to $50,000, if not more, in related expenses to attend such tournaments, especially overseas tournaments.

Of course, if they are STAKED, their backers get 50 percent (or more sometimes, depending on the stakehorse) after expenses. So, when you read a player earned $100,000, he might have only pocketed $25,000 out of that $100,000, after the stakehorse gets his cut and the expenses are chopped out.

The earnings on AzBilliards Player List, unfortunately, do not -- I repeat -- DO NOT reflect what pro players put into their pockets.

Most Filipino players only receive a portion of their tournament winnings after expenses.

To even make the parallel or analogy that an American pro player's expenses can be compared to traditional jobs is ridiculous. Again, most people don't have a clue when it comes to professional pool.

 

[watchez]

Obviously I can't say about what their $$ is but it would maybe suprise you on how well they did with T-Shirt sales, Signed ball sales basically merchansising.
Most of the players on that list have quite a bit of other income.

Glad to hear that, again, pool is popular enough that the greats of our game can make a decent living. I don't really care if you (meaning your tour) are or not reporting all money as I have worked for tips before and obviously didn't declare it all, but money earned from t-shirt sales and signed ball sales could be 'free' money and non taxed. That would be a nice plus. Every dollar I make, the government takes taxes, about 35% or more out of my check. And I can't write off normal daily travel expenses between home and work on my taxes.

Buddy Hall seems to move every few years. I can imagine it is because he goes to where the money is at - - not because it was his lifelong dream to live in Tulsa Oklahoma.

I don't want to put the $$$ out there, but you would be amazed the deal that Justin Bergman got to be a house pro at a pool room in Cape Giradeau Missouri. Quick, can anyone tell me where Cape Giradeau even is? The $$$ is out there, you just have to go get it.

Also, it is not so hard to believe that all the hard work of bfdlad has paid off beyond what he imagined. The USA is still a great country and you can make things happen. I, myself, am making more than 4 times what I made 5 years ago. I just put myself out there just like a popular athlete can. Then I invested and re-invested my money to make things happen. I just invested, with a friend, over $30K in Golden Tee machines. We had to hustle to get them placed and will be doing tournaments with the machines all over the country, as far away as Richmond VA or Orlando Fla. I refuse to sit back and wait to find out that I have some long lost aunt or uncle that might have left me a fortune. Fairy tales don't happen.

 

[JAM]

It is a shame that there are those who compare professional pool to traditional jobs. It only emphasizes the fact that these people have no clue about professional pool. There is absolutely no way you can compare the two, none at all, no matter how much one tries to do so. It's idiotic.

I know Buddy Hall's wife and have conversed with her about pool and all of its so-called "rewards." If you speak to Buddy Hall or any other life-long American pro player, some folks might be enlightened to the truth about professional pool and how much one can gain from devoting their life to the sport.

God bless Earl Stickland. I hope he makes a bundle on this pool school tour! :smile:

 

[bfdlad]

I am going to tell you something that I have heard Earl say quite a few times to his students before the class starts. Now you may have to think about this one for a second as it will show you the passion Earl has for the game and for the regular pool player. "I wish I could just touch you and you could play the way I can and feel what I feel when I play, just for a couple of racks" This may sound full of ego but How much would it be worth to just play those 2 racks to feel and think what he does? Its gotta be like going from Clark Kent to Superman for a second.

 

[watchez]

I have a close friend that is 8-time world champion in handball. All it takes to play this sport is a ball and a wall. Many people don't even know what handball is or what the rules are. He is going to do a 4 day 'camp' in Las Vegas associated with the Venetian. 16 people will pay $1,195.00 a piece to play handball with him, receive personalized lessons, dinner each night and hotel. That is pretty good for four days work minus expenses- the right marketing got it done.

 

[Bigtruck]

Skewed

2008 Player Money List
Player Name 2008 Prize Money
Ralf Souquet $171,852
Mika Immonen $149,582
Shane Van Boening $147,420
Darren Appleton $128,751
Niels Feijen $123,775
Dennis Orcollo $99,942
Francisco Bustamante $83,403
Chia-Ching Wu $72,588
Alex Pagulayan $71,780
Johnny Archer $70,745
Jian-Bo Fu $69,650
Rodney Morris $63,942
Tony Drago $62,444
Ching-Shun Yang $61,400
Karen Corr $61,000
Mark Gray $56,440
Kelly Fisher $54,500
Ronnie Alcano $54,410
Jung-Lin Chang $54,300
Gabe Owen $51,865
Corey Deuel $51,300
Allison Fisher $45,350
Jasmin Ouschan $44,059
Stevie Moore $42,155
Mike Davis $41,515
Jeremy Jones $41,260

(if AZ money list is incorrect, someone please let Mike H. know)

Another thing that is skewed on this list is many tournaments include auction money in the payout totals. Many times these players only have 1/2 to none of themselves in those side pots, but still get listed as having won it.

I may have missed one or two, but look at the ones who live in the US.

Ray

 

[Cuebuddy]

We can not give up hope for the game we love. We are in the middle of a Earl thread and there is no Earl bashing, that alone says something. Bigtruck has a very good angle on the game, yes right now things are not the best for the game in this country. It still will not affect most people who play the game. I for one believe that is a cycle like everything else that I have seen including the economy and the weather. There are things that are improving about the game and I for one refuse to ever quit liking it because things are not perfect.

 

[jjollie]

Well in my honest opinion, Earl is one of the best pool players that ever lived...surely in the top 5 !!!

jjollie

 

[chamillionare]

For pro players, especially American pro players, to earn $100,000 per annum playing competitive pool in tournaments, as reflected on AzBilliards Main Page, to use a flat figure of $100,000, they could easily incur close to $50,000, if not more, in related expenses to attend such tournaments, especially overseas tournaments.

Of course, if they are STAKED, their backers get 50 percent (or more sometimes, depending on the stakehorse) after expenses. So, when you read a player earned $100,000, he might have only pocketed $25,000 out of that $100,000, after the stakehorse gets his cut and the expenses are chopped out.

The earnings on AzBilliards Player List, unfortunately, do not -- I repeat -- DO NOT reflect what pro players put into their pockets.

Most Filipino players only receive a portion of their tournament winnings after expenses.

To even make the parallel or analogy that an American pro player's expenses can be compared to traditional jobs is ridiculous. Again, most people don't have a clue when it comes to professional pool.

your 100% right jam i only played 8 comps a year and was earning around 200grand everyone would say its great money but with expenses tax eating in restaurants taxis etc, and when your a top player travelling and earning you dont wont to stay in crap hotels or live cheap there is not alot left. 100k is absolutely nothing it is comparable to a low wage job. but people have no idea of the ex's associated with being a pro you need to earn 150plus for many years to be able to get ahead a bit and not live like a bum anything less and your not gonna have many options when you quit other than to get another job

 

[chefjeff]

I have a close friend that is 8-time world champion in handball. All it takes to play this sport is a ball and a wall. Many people don't even know what handball is or what the rules are. He is going to do a 4 day 'camp' in Las Vegas associated with the Venetian. 16 people will pay $1,195.00 a piece to play handball with him, receive personalized lessons, dinner each night and hotel. That is pretty good for four days work minus expenses- the right marketing got it done.

...the right marketing got it done​

Marketing is the highest value for a business....any business. It is higher than the idea, than the prototype, than manufacturing/distributing. Without marketing, nothing moves, no values are traded. When no values are traded, no one gains anything. When no one gains, the sport falters. When the sport falters, we beach and some quit and point fingers.

Marketing solves all problems.

Marketing is the missing ingredient in most players' shots, imho.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Rick S.]

If I was a player going to say, the DCC, for a week I would stay at an extended stay hotel nearby. I did a quick search and you could get a room for $275 for 7 days. Split between someone else, that is $137.50 a person.

Well....more than likely, you wouldn't have made it through the first round staying off premises! Especially with the ice storm, and snow that we got hit with. Actually, you probably wouldn't have made it to the hotel to even play.

JAM is right...I spoke with our maid for a minute while at Harrah's. She said she's "never seen so many people staying in one room before".

The way the matches were running behind-long. It would have been very hard to commute between the hotels. Not to mention expensive. A car rental would have been the only way. And with the weather, it wasn't a sure bet you'd make it on time, either.

The tournament trail is tough......

Food was expensisve anywhere at the hotel. Buffet ran anywhere from 14.95 to 24.95. Hamburgers were 8.00. Drinks were astronomical....10.00 for a vodka-red bull, 2.61 for a CAN of coke. And if you smoked, 8.50 a pk at the giftshop.

I can certainly see why the players can't afford it. And, why Earl passed on it. I did hear a couple of the players say this would be the last one, for them.

It's such a shame....

 

[ragbug74]

When we began the Legends and Champions Pool Tour, we did it for the pool and billiards community and thought we would maybe make a little extra $$ since there wasn't much in the way of Tourneys. We said it has to be affordable for all concerned, the average pool player, the pool room so we can hold an exhibition etc. I believe that is exactly what we have done. And begining by doing it for the love of the game it has turned around and has become very profitable. We have quite a few things that are coming very close to completion that will hopefully again affect the pool and billiards community in a good way.
I know that there are ALOT of people out there doing there part in a much bigger way than I am trying to do and for alot less $$. I hope that one day when the Pool biz turns around and the economy gets better that we don't forget the people out there running weekly tourneys, websites like this one, pool magazines etc. They should be the ones that we all support and not some yahoo who all of a sudden sees $$ but has no passion for the game and tries to step in.

By the way, not everyone sees the value in everything, I personally would pay $100.00 to have Keith run out on me and say "It's like a nightmare isn't it?" half way through. Just to say I did it. Earl and Keith would make a great show I think. Just playing each other everynight in different pool rooms. Sell tee shirts etc with their faces on it. There you see, it just takes someone to set it up. Theres 2 greats with a 7 day job every other month and no need to play. It would not be a great living but less risk than a tourney. Rambling sorry.

I agree, they would make a great show and I totally agree with the "nightmare" scenario!

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Food was expensisve anywhere at the hotel. Buffet ran anywhere from 14.95 to 24.95. Hamburgers were 8.00. Drinks were astronomical....10.00 for a vodka-red bull, 2.61 for a CAN of coke. And if you smoked, 8.50 a pk at the giftshop.

I can certainly see why the players can't afford it. And, why Earl passed on it. I did hear a couple of the players say this would be the last one, for them.

It's such a shame....

Rick,
I've never been to the DCC. But I'm curious if you can answer this question...Are those prices stable for that location the whole year or do they jack up the prices when the DCC is in town? $2.61 for a can of pop is 5 times what it cost here in SW Pa.

Also, can't the promoters (Greg & Diamond Billiards) tell them that if they continue to price gouge, then they'll just move the whole tourney out of Louisville? Lots of times, hotels half REDUCED specials for big events. Sounds like here, they have INFLATED specials.

Thanks for posting those prices. Also, the distance between hotels and match times part was something else I never heard before.

Eye opening post.

 

[gunzby]

It is a shame that there are those who compare professional pool to traditional jobs. It only emphasizes the fact that these people have no clue about professional pool. There is absolutely no way you can compare the two, none at all, no matter how much one tries to do so. It's idiotic.

I know Buddy Hall's wife and have conversed with her about pool and all of its so-called "rewards." If you speak to Buddy Hall or any other life-long American pro player, some folks might be enlightened to the truth about professional pool and how much one can gain from devoting their life to the sport.

God bless Earl Stickland. I hope he makes a bundle on this pool school tour! :smile:

I'm amazed at those who do. For one when you show up for work you are guaranteed money and you didn't have to pay your boss to show up for it either. When you live off the tournament trail ya spend the money to get to the tourney, you spend money to get into the tourney and then ya have to hope you're not having an off day long enough to get into the money.

 

[Rick S.]

Rick,
I've never been to the DCC. But I'm curious if you can answer this question...Are those prices stable for that location the whole year or do they jack up the prices when the DCC is in town? $2.61 for a can of pop is 5 times what it cost here in SW Pa.

Also, can't the promoters (Greg & Diamond Billiards) tell them that if they continue to price gouge, then they'll just move the whole tourney out of Louisville? Lots of times, hotels half REDUCED specials for big events. Sounds like here, they have INFLATED specials.

Thanks for posting those prices. Also, the distance between hotels and match times part was something else I never heard before.

Eye opening post.

I did hear that the room rates were 69.00 before, and after the tourny. As far as the drink prices...no idea if the price remains constant. Food prices are the same, tourny, or no tourny.

I think Greg is doing the best he can...There just isn't any place better, or cheaper to hold it in. Logistics play a big part.

Expensive...yes. But, still one of the best tourny's on the planet. I had a great time, and would do it again in a hearbeat.

 

[watchez]

I'm amazed at those who do. For one when you show up for work you are guaranteed money and you didn't have to pay your boss to show up for it either. When you live off the tournament trail ya spend the money to get to the tourney, you spend money to get into the tourney and then ya have to hope you're not having an off day long enough to get into the money.

Tournaments are not the only way that a professional pool player can earn money. Just ask Archer, Earl or Jeanette that were referenced in this thread.

Also, again I won't divulge personal info, but you can bet that Corey Duel is happy with the sponsorship deal that he got from being out there, promoted himself, and received. It would also leave you amazed if you knew.