Fill Rooms Back Up...Gamble

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I have been in love with pool since a very young age. I started gambling flipping baseball cards at 8 and seriously on pool at 13. Growing up around the docks of NY we gambled on everything, like stickball, street hockey, stoopball, handball, and ragtag teams of baseball and football...everything.

I loved 3 cushion billiards and straight pool. Back in the day (1950’s-1970) you could find players that gambled on both easily. After that, little by little the gambling dried up. First to go was the gambling on 3 cushion. The best you could do was find games for time and a coffee. Then little by little 14.1 dried up, and after COM it was hardly played anymore.

I’ve always thought that as the gambling on these games dried up and the bar leagues started to get big that pool really started to slide. Now I’m a gambler and my opinion shouldn’t count in this, but I still feel that when a lot of the $5- $20 games that were at half the tables in a room and about every table at the bars that pool really lost a lot of the thrill and enjoyment and went on a non-stop slide downward. Johnnyt
 
Agree

I agree with you Johnny. The very first game I played as a kid in a Pool Room was for time and a dollar, nobody played for just fun. When the last good room in my area was open it took an hour to negotiate to play someone for just the time!
 
Good post Johnnyt. Way back you learned to play under pressure.
You could lose all your "Popsicle money" when you didn't play well.
.
 
I blame a lot of this on the casinos, you can through a rock in any direction and hit one now. Once apon a time the pool room was the place to go for action. I sure miss a room full of gamble.
 
Johnnyt said:
I have been in love with pool since a very young age. I started gambling flipping baseball cards at 8 and seriously on pool at 13. Growing up around the docks of NY we gambled on everything, like stickball, street hockey, stoopball, handball, and ragtag teams of baseball and football...everything.

I loved 3 cushion billiards and straight pool. Back in the day (1950’s-1970) you could find players that gambled on both easily. After that, little by little the gambling dried up. First to go was the gambling on 3 cushion. The best you could do was find games for time and a coffee. Then little by little 14.1 dried up, and after COM it was hardly played anymore.

I’ve always thought that as the gambling on these games dried up and the bar leagues started to get big that pool really started to slide. Now I’m a gambler and my opinion shouldn’t count in this, but I still feel that when a lot of the $5- $20 games that were at half the tables in a room and about every table at the bars that pool really lost a lot of the thrill and enjoyment and went on a non-stop slide downward. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

the first paragraph in blue belongs at the start of the book you should be writing, Johnny. :wink:

my father started me playing at a local pool hall around 1970 when I was 12 or 13. His game was straight pool and so that's what we played. Conveniently, there was another pool hall in my hometown called Sams, and it was a seedy place with all the characters you'd expect to find in such an establishment in my dirty, blue collared city.

My friend, Mike, and I became frequent-flyers there skipping school regularly so we could witness the goings-on. It fascinated us.

We weren't even supposed to be in the joint, us being 14 year old squirts but for whatever reason, old man "Sam', the owner, took a liking to us two delinquints and so we became fixtures there.

There was smoking, gambling, and thinly veiled drug deals all around in there. It was a 2nd floor pool hall and there were always a few strange birds hanging on the rickety stairway that took you to Sams.

Sam let Mike and me clear balls off the tables and brush em down when the adults finished up on them, in exchange for free table time, the pure honor of being able to come there as under-agers, and his occasionally running interference and even negotiations on our behalf with our school's truant officer.

It wasn't too long before both mike and I were getting good enough that, on slower days, some of the players would make a game with us and not only were we holding our own, we were actually becoming tough for the mid-level players to beat. I can remember, vividly, some of the times I was slipping some hard-earned twenties into my pants pocket, what a rush that was. Mostly we played for ones and fives and less often a sawbuck, but those twenties when we got that high, holy crap, I felt real good about those. Keep in mind this was the early 70's and twenty bucks could really get you somewhere; a fancy meal and a few 8-track tapes, hell even a four-finger ounce could be had for 20.

It eventually got to the point where Sam would put me or Mike up against out-of-towners who would come in looking for a game and for him to call on one of us was huge. It was validation that our games were good & that we fit in there - that we belonged. :)

watching the revolving door of characters who came in and out of Sams, for me, was a life-lesson that you could never find in any book at the school. It was fun, fascinating, troubling and exhilarating. I learned how to handle myself there, got some street-smarts that has served me well over the years.

Generally speaking, people love to gamble. Not all, but many. That's why casinos keep springing up everywhere Indians have hung their headdresses.

imo, if a room had an atmosphere where there were good money matches played regularly that draw enthusiastic railbirds interested in betting it up, and the room owners could somehow be figured into the equation, then maybe we would no longer have to endure insults and assaults such as karaoke, and the like. :eek:

I think enterprising room owners who possess some of the aforementioned 'street-smarts', with enough warm bodies in their establishment, could figure out a number of ways to make ends meet. Or even flourish. :thumbup:

The excitement felt as kids at Sams, that couldn't have been exclusive to just Mike and me, could it?

I miss that joint.

best
brian kc
 
Last edited:
Thought

chalkdust said:
I blame a lot of this on the casinos, you can through a rock in any direction and hit one now. Once apon a time the pool room was the place to go for action. I sure miss a room full of gamble.
Click to expand...

My blame goes to the handicap bar leagues.Nothing against them , you can' t argue with success , but the different handicap levels seeped into everything. Pre 8 Ball leagues people argued who was better and settled it with a bet on the match. Now in any Pool Room players have been taught to ask for weight. They almost have no desire to ever picking up their level of play.
 
What rooms are you trying to fill up? I've spent most of my life in smaller towns and if a room opened, it closed again pretty quickly.

For pool to gain in popularity again, I think it has to take a couple steps back. Open rooms that encourage everyone to come in and play, and yes, that means karaoke nights, and trivia nights, and dart boards, etc. Make it kid-friendly enough to encourage younger ones to play. Make it nice enough to encourage the parents to let their kids in the door (dark and seedy may make you feel like a badass, but no helicopter parent is dropping their kid off while they run errands.)

So to summarize. No one is playing pool anymore. You first have to encourage them to pick up a cue before you can get them to bet on the outcome of the game.
 
Johnnyt said:
I have been in love with pool since a very young age. I started gambling flipping baseball cards at 8 and seriously on pool at 13. Growing up around the docks of NY we gambled on everything, like stickball, street hockey, stoopball, handball, and ragtag teams of baseball and football...everything.

I loved 3 cushion billiards and straight pool. Back in the day (1950’s-1970) you could find players that gambled on both easily. After that, little by little the gambling dried up. First to go was the gambling on 3 cushion. The best you could do was find games for time and a coffee. Then little by little 14.1 dried up, and after COM it was hardly played anymore.

I’ve always thought that as the gambling on these games dried up and the bar leagues started to get big that pool really started to slide. Now I’m a gambler and my opinion shouldn’t count in this, but I still feel that when a lot of the $5- $20 games that were at half the tables in a room and about every table at the bars that pool really lost a lot of the thrill and enjoyment and went on a non-stop slide downward. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

I grew up on the West Coast playing snooker on a 5x10. I started gambling as soon as I could make a ball.

By the time I was a decent player in the early 60's, I had converted to 9 ball and the bar tables were here. There was lots of action through the sixties and into the 70's, in the bars and pool rooms. We even had most of the road players from all over the country coming through. There has always been some action since, but it has slowly gotten tougher and today, daily action is almost non existent, and if you do find some you probably have to take the worst of it.

The new generation of players learn and compete in league play. While APA, BCA and the other organized leagues bring thousands of players to pool, they do not have the gambling mentality to challenge their own skill by betting their money.

At Hard Times in Sacramento, there could be 50 league players out in the main room and not one of them would walk to the back room to watch a gambling match.

If you can't go to Derby City or one of the other big tournaments that is known for action, you have to wait to get lucky at your local room.

I went to four Derby's and always got action, some good, some bad, but it is a $2,000 nut for me before I hit a ball, and I have probably gone to my last one. I do play in a local eight ball league just to hit balls and have a couple beers.
 
It's all a matter of perception I guess... The thrill and excitement
of gambling is what you get out of pool. So when gambling in pool dried up,
you see it as the game going on a downward slide.

I just like the game as-is and can't get into gambling. I enjoy it enough that I want to play
every day and 'settle' for playing maybe 3-4 days a week.

So for me there's no downward slide... no loss of excitement.
Pool has only gotten more enjoyable since I started playing.
Pro pool obviously has gone down the crapper but gambling won't fix that.

I know there are lots of people who love the gambling aspect of pool,
and can't have as much fun without it. That's kind of unfortunate, it means
you must rely on others to get any enjoyment out of it.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
the first paragraph in blue belongs at the start of the book you should be writing, Johnny. :wink:

my father started me playing at a local pool hall around 1970 when I was 12 or 13. His game was straight pool and so that's what we played. Conveniently, there was another pool hall in my hometown called Sams, and it was a seedy place with all the characters you'd expect to find in such an establishment in my dirty, blue collared city.

My friend, Mike, and I became frequent-flyers there skipping school regularly so we could witness the goings-on. It fascinated us.

We weren't even supposed to be in the joint, us being 14 year old squirts but for whatever reason, old man "Sam', the owner, took a liking to us two delinquints and so we became fixtures there.

There was smoking, gambling, and thinly veiled drug deals all around in there. It was a 2nd floor pool hall and there were always a few strange birds hanging on the rickety stairway that took you to Sams.

Sam let Mike and me clear balls off the tables and brush em down when the adults finished up on them, in exchange for free table time, the pure honor of being able to come there as under-agers, and his occasionally running interference and even negotiations on our behalf with our school's truant officer.

It wasn't too long before both mike and I were getting good enough that, on slower days, some of the players would make a game with us and not only were we holding our own, we were actually becoming tough for the mid-level players to beat. I can remember, vividly, some of the times I was slipping some hard-earned twenties into my pants pocket, what a rush that was. Mostly we played for ones and fives and less often a sawbuck, but those twenties when we got that high, holy crap, I felt real good about those. Keep in mind this was the early 70's and twenty bucks could really get you somewhere; a fancy meal and a few 8-track tapes, hell even a four-finger ounce could be had for 20.

It eventually got to the point where Sam would put me or Mike up against out-of-towners who would come in looking for a game and for him to call on one of us was huge. It was validation that our games were good & that we fit in there - that we belonged. :)

watching the revolving door of characters who came in and out of Sams, for me, was a life-lesson that you could never find in any book at the school. It was fun, fascinating, troubling and exhilarating. I learned how to handle myself there, got some street-smarts that has served me well over the years.

Generally speaking, people love to gamble. Not all, but many. That's why casinos keep springing up everywhere Indians have hung their headdresses.

imo, if a room had an atmosphere where there were good money matches played regularly that draw enthusiastic railbirds interested in betting it up, and the room owners could somehow be figured into the equation, then maybe we would no longer have to endure insults and assaults such as karaoke, and the like. :eek:

I think enterprising room owners who possess some of the aforementioned 'street-smarts', with enough warm bodies in their establishment, could figure out a number of ways to make ends meet. Or even flourish. :thumbup:

The excitement felt as kids at Sams, that couldn't have been exclusive to just Mike and me, could it?

I miss that joint.

best
brian kc
Click to expand...

I grew up in a similar joint and still miss iy. The wasin a small town in Arkansas. NOw it's;gone and the buileing no longer exists All the players ( an there were not that many) heve moved on to crap games and play dominoes i the breezeways of old barns and curse Obama.
I moved on when I wet off to school in 1870and never really wwet back. When I first got to Denver mot of the action was $5 nine ball and in the bars $5 8 balll. Then came the leagues and everything went othell in a hand basket.
Then it became races to 7 for $20 and god knows you had vest win that first one and elminate the time or it was worthless to even play. Fast forward 20 years ok 30 years and it is not muc different. The pool room is filled wih races to 7 for $20 or one pocket for $20 a game with time being $6-47-48 and housr or worse and the end result is about always the same. NOw all of a sudden those betting $40 are big guns and telling stories about yesteryear that nobody really believes and God forbid we talk about where the level of play has gone. They rarely even shoot at their hole and talk about Efrens play like they were old friends and have never been in the same time zone with him. The best player i town where I live wo't even go into the pool hal these days claiming it makes him ill.
At 62 I am reduced to old stories because that is about wht I have left. So may have gone and died or moved on and left some of us in a lonely world and I guess that is just life. POol is about gone and the new owners today pay no attention to the game not bing able to see three feet past the bar. Here the waitress spends mostof her tme waking those asleep on the rail. They fell asleep wathcing races to 7 for $20! or $20 one pocket
 
Creedo is Right on

It's all a matter of perception I guess... The thrill and excitement
of gambling is what you get out of pool. So when gambling in pool dried up,
you see it as the game going on a downward slide.

I just like the game as-is and can't get into gambling. I enjoy it enough that I want to play
every day and 'settle' for playing maybe 3-4 days a week.

So for me there's no downward slide... no loss of excitement.
Pool has only gotten more enjoyable since I started playing.
Pro pool obviously has gone down the crapper but gambling won't fix that.

I know there are lots of people who love the gambling aspect of pool,
and can't have as much fun without it. That's kind of unfortunate, it means
you must rely on others to get any enjoyment out of it.
Click to expand...

I love pool no matter what! I like to gamble, I like league play because it leads to state tourneys and Vegas, I like shooting with my friends and I even like drills. I like teaching my wife and kids how to play pool.

There are so many stories of I came into this bar acting like I can't play a lick and taking down the house for "$10,000" Thats not gambling thats lying or as pool players call it "hustling" If you are going to be billy bad ass and gamble then do it like Johnny Archer and CJ Wiley, they went into the pool halls and said "hey I'm the best so give me your best!" Now that shows guts and drive and character.

Leagues are here to stay all this talk about the 60's and 70's YEA THEY ARE OVER and you can thank all your hustling buddies for that. The economy is also crap in most parts or the majority of the country. 20 bucks is nothing today!. What has really hurt american pool is the invention of the VALLEY BAR BOX no wonder Europe and Asia have more high end caliber players they all play on 9ft tables with tight pockets or deep shelfs VALLEY BAR BOXES are a joke and is one of the main reasons I will never play VNEA again.

Here in the near future I will began lobbying superintendents to offer pool as recreation hour like bowling, the problem is there are not kid friendly pool rooms. Once there is one you can take your small town and challenge another small town or bigger city that has pool as a recreation activity, then you get state championships for high schoolers. It can happen that fast pool can grow again its just a matter of will and initiative.

Times are changing and I hope they change for the better.

Sincerely,
 
casinos

And yes casinos are a big part of people gambling on pool is almost gone. I've always thought casinos should have a pool area. This would generate action!!!!!!!
 
chalkdust said:
I blame a lot of this on the casinos, you can through a rock in any direction and hit one now. Once apon a time the pool room was the place to go for action. I sure miss a room full of gamble.
Click to expand...

Yep, I forgot about them. Johnnyt
 
I don't bad mouth league play, but it's just not for me. It's just not league players that don't gamble on their own skill. IMO it's the new breed (not all don't jump me) that will gamble on sports betting and casinos where 97% are losers in the end.

One of the reasons I had one table for 15 ball rotation going from open to close was it was partners 50 cents a man and you didn't have to call your shot. If you didn't have a pocket for the lowest ball on the table you could just hit and hope. I can't tell you how many young guys learned pool and started gambling on that table and then graduated to the call shot $1 to $5 a man table next to it. Just one of those tables paid the rent for 8 years. By the way, at least 85% of my regulars were under 30 years old. Johnnyt
 
Best time I ever had in pool was playihng on the league, but I also enjoy action. I can watch action all night long, especially if I'm in with one side or have a sweat bet going. I have always enjoyed pool, whether watching it or playing it.

The first time I ever saw snooker played in person was with Keith, and I learned real quickly how many points those colored balls were, because we were betting big. ;)
 
JAM said:
Best time I ever had in pool was playihng on the league, but I also enjoy action. I can watch action all night long, especially if I'm in with one side or have a sweat bet going. I have always enjoyed pool, whether watching it or playing it.

The first time I ever saw snooker played in person was with Keith, and I learned real quickly how many points those colored balls were, because we were betting big. ;)
Click to expand...

Yep, when your own $$ is on the line you learn things fast. Johnnyt
 
For me, I flat refuse to gamble while playing pool, at least with my own money. But there is nothing like watching someone else do it. A couple of accomplished players playing even for a sizable chunk of cash has always been exciting to watch.
My thought is that social media and the internet have played a big part in the down fall of the big money game. A road player has a hard time sneaking into town and cleaning people out anymore. Now a good road player plays somewhere and cashes, an hour later it's posted on AZ billiard or Twitter or Facebook and the next town is dead for him. I think a reputation is too quickly manufactured and broadcast throughout the pool world for a good road player to make any real money. The Saturday night players that go to a pool hall might play for a few bucks, but nothing substantial and the pool players know you before you ever get to town and likely won't play a road player or even another pool player without a good amount of weight. The economy is much worse and the world is a much smaller place now. Both are bad for gambling pool players
 
CreeDo said:
It's all a matter of perception I guess... The thrill and excitement
of gambling is what you get out of pool. So when gambling in pool dried up,
you see it as the game going on a downward slide.

I just like the game as-is and can't get into gambling. I enjoy it enough that I want to play
every day and 'settle' for playing maybe 3-4 days a week.

So for me there's no downward slide... no loss of excitement.
Pool has only gotten more enjoyable since I started playing.
Pro pool obviously has gone down the crapper but gambling won't fix that.

I know there are lots of people who love the gambling aspect of pool,
and can't have as much fun without it. That's kind of unfortunate, it means
you must rely on others to get any enjoyment out of it.
Click to expand...

Well said creedo! I love gambling just as much playing pool! But I do it for the excitement! But I do t need to gamble to have the same fun! When there's nothing on it, I look at it like this, let me try this shot and see what happens:) when I'm gambling, that's different, its all about the win! But either way, I'm still excited playing;) money or no money!
 
New School Boys....

From my crows nest....they are different animals. They seem to be more concerned about the limelight and making sure they ''never lose'' to help keep their image/character and bragging rights intact. The youngsters in our area will play and work out with ya cheap/But I always have to ASK, ALWAYS. But the minute my game starts gelling a little they won't play anymore, its too much work and they might lose:grin:.
Hell a few years ago I was playing a local in his twenties and he quit because he was Tired, I'm in my sixties. And another, we had weekly workouts, three or four hours once a week, after about two months....and mind you I was not winning early on, but NOT getting a total beat down. Eventually I started playing better, and eventually beat him solid ONCE....he now won't play....Period. It seems so FACEBOOKISH....their actions. Not as much character on the inside of the man as there was years ago.
 
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