Former straight pool champions react to news of John Schmidt's 626

JC

The Thread Stops Here
Gold Member
I don't know -- it's been long enough that I've kinda lost interest.

If what you're really asking is if I'm going to do a forensic analysis of it, no. There are others here that do that kind of thing far better than moi.

Lou Figueroa

I like to play straight pool. Watching high runs is like watching paint dry or grass grow though.

I don't think I'm unusual in this regard. That was my thought about it.

Hope he figures out a way to monetize his accomplishment but that also seems unlikely to me.
 

xradarx

Mosconi_526 Unchallenged_66_years
Silver Member
Mr?? Newflash

No one who views this tape will ever learn anything about straight pool. It won't be displayed anywhere. Guinness will only recognize a record if they secure the proof and the rights to use the proof. Same with the Smithsonian. You can review each for application for a record and none exist for 626 Billiards run. No one can look at the film and comment about each and every shot prior to taking the shot or the next or the next shot. Mosconi planned and played three to seven shots ahead of himself. Not being appreciative of the accomplishment is one thing, but to realize the damage to the game of 14.1 Straight Pool/Continuous is another thing. JS had NOTHING to lose in this run, only a self important gain. It's not like he was scaling Mt. Everest, no danger of being injured by a machine that he was working on, this was just another pool game. He may have fallen asleep, fell on the table and interrupted the pattern that you speak so highly of. He might have broken a fingernail. Who knows. The damage to the game is that JS will not be the last one to just make up any process and pursue that to a new record. The small vocal membership for and against this BS is equally small percentage of AZB's membership, even including the trolls. Sorry, but you're witnessing the facts of life.
 
Last edited:

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good grief, talk about nitpicking.

Lou Figueroa
talk about
beyond ridiculous


I have always had a lot of respect for you on here, always keep it clean and usually you hit the nail on the head on most topics.


I feel shame for all of you who would rather choose to TEAR DOWN/ CALL AN ESTABLISHED PRO A LIAR(and all the industry people who witnessed it and signed off on it) than celebrate such an AWESOME LIFETIME ACCOMPLISHMENT!

Take it or leave it, it is my opinion and it will be my last post here on this topic.

Trent from Toledo
 

JC

The Thread Stops Here
Gold Member
No one who views this tape will ever learn anything about straight pool. It won't be displayed anywhere. Guinness will only recognize a record if they secure the proof and the rights to use the proof. Same with the Smithsonian. You can review each for application for a record and none exist for 626 Billiards run. No one can look at the film and comment about each and every shot prior to taking the shot or the next or the next shot. Mosconi planned and played three to seven shots ahead of himself. Not being appreciative of the accomplishment is one thing, but to realize the damage to the game of 14.1 Straight Pool/Continuous is another thing. JS had NOTHING to lose in this run, only a self important gain. It's not like he was scaling Mt. Everest, no danger of being injured by a machine that he was working on, this was just another pool game. He may have fallen asleep, fell on the table and interrupted the pattern that you speak so highly of. He might have broken a fingernail. Who knows. The damage to the game is that JS will not be the last one to just make up any process and pursue that to a new record. The small vocal membership for and against this BS is equally small percentage of AZB's membership, even including the trolls. Sorry, but you're witnessing the facts of life.


Better take a different angle and re examine life, not sure you got the facts of it straight.


Bizarre reasoning and conclusion.
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
No one who views this tape will ever learn anything about straight pool. It won't be displayed anywhere. Guinness will only recognize a record if they secure the proof and the rights to use the proof. Same with the Smithsonian. You can review each for application for a record and none exist for 626 Billiards run. No one can look at the film and comment about each and every shot prior to taking the shot or the next or the next shot. Mosconi planned and played three to seven shots ahead of himself. Not being appreciative of the accomplishment is one thing, but to realize the damage to the game of 14.1 Straight Pool/Continuous is another thing. JS had NOTHING to lose in this run, only a self important gain. It's not like he was scaling Mt. Everest, no danger of being injured by a machine that he was working on, this was just another pool game. He may have fallen asleep, fell on the table and interrupted the pattern that you speak so highly of. He might have broken a fingernail. Who knows. The damage to the game is that JS will not be the last one to just make up any process and pursue that to a new record. The small vocal membership for and against this BS is equally small percentage of AZB's membership, even including the trolls. Sorry, but you're witnessing the facts of life.


I don’t know anything about Guinness records or if he is even looking for that, from what he’s said he wants to put the video out so why wouldn’t anyone learn anything? I learn something all the time watching pool.

JS announced that he was trying to run over 526 and even live streamed his attempts. To me that put mad pressure on him. It was a pretty bold implied statement and he knew he might end up looking silly if he failed. No one likes to look silly.

I see no chance for “damage” to 14.1 lol. What an odd thing to say. His high run attempts were the same format as the DCC high run attempts. It would be a little awkward and tiresome to start a high run by safe breaking and then playing both sides until he sold himself out a shot...or whatever some think he should have done. Maybe have his racker act as tomato can opponent.

Matches are played to 150 or 200 tops normally so it’s not feasible to try it there. It’s a high run. It is a display of what you can do in 14.1 once you get an open shot.

Aaanyway I’m just stalling here before I have to go for a drive.
 

logical

Part of the Conspiracy
Silver Member
No one who views this tape will ever learn anything about straight pool. It won't be displayed anywhere. Guinness will only recognize a record if they secure the proof and the rights to use the proof. Same with the Smithsonian. You can review each for application for a record and none exist for 626 Billiards run. No one can look at the film and comment about each and every shot prior to taking the shot or the next or the next shot. Mosconi planned and played three to seven shots ahead of himself. Not being appreciative of the accomplishment is one thing, but to realize the damage to the game of 14.1 Straight Pool/Continuous is another thing. JS had NOTHING to lose in this run, only a self important gain. It's not like he was scaling Mt. Everest, no danger of being injured by a machine that he was working on, this was just another pool game. He may have fallen asleep, fell on the table and interrupted the pattern that you speak so highly of. He might have broken a fingernail. Who knows. The damage to the game is that JS will not be the last one to just make up any process and pursue that to a new record. The small vocal membership for and against this BS is equally small percentage of AZB's membership, even including the trolls. Sorry, but you're witnessing the facts of life.
I don't think Guinness has anything to do with the old record or the new record...its just some obscure stat, interesting and remarkable to a few, meaningless to most. John didn't set out to do something dangerous or daring and Mosconi didn't either...why even bring up such a thing. What John did is a record. If you want to reason that it doesn't break Mosconi's record then fine...they are two different records. I can't run 7 balls most days but I have a tough time saying running 626 the way John did is any more or less difficult than winning an exhibition match after making 150 and deciding to keep shooting. Did Mosconi break at the beginning of the exhibition match or pick up after his exhibition opponent missed?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

xradarx

Mosconi_526 Unchallenged_66_years
Silver Member
Have a nice Day!

G'head, have a nice drive. Get this BS off your mind. Nothing personal, just passing time anywho.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not bashin ya Lou, but, if you are going to contest someone's already accepted accomplishment, you should at the very minimum use the proper terminology. It is not "tape" and I seriously doubt it will be on any sort of "tape"...

Lou is an old-school PAO.

He wrote Joe Biden's speech about how teachers should get a raise and how parents should have their "record players" on at night to teach their children.

Also, he is a 14.1 expert and Mosconi's record will never be broken, no matter how many balls anybody runs.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Lou is an old-school PAO.

He wrote Joe Biden's speech about how teachers should get a raise and how parents should have their "record players" on at night to teach their children.

Also, he is a 14.1 expert and Mosconi's record will never be broken, no matter how many balls anybody runs.

I have 2 early 1900's Victrola's both in MINT and a Library of Shellac 78's, more than half of my library is new old stock, aka most were never played when I got the collection.

I also have 2 technic 1210'mk3d Turntables and a Urei Dj mixer:)
OLD SKOOL AS HECK!

I still believe John did what accomplished and I am astonished at how many haters there are out there.

Trent from Toledo :thumbup:
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like to play straight pool. Watching high runs is like watching paint dry or grass grow though.

I don't think I'm unusual in this regard. That was my thought about it.

Hope he figures out a way to monetize his accomplishment but that also seems unlikely to me.


I can understand this sentiment but knowledge and experience is part of being able to appreciate many things in life.

Perhaps it's like wine or cigars -- to some they're just a drink or a smoke. But others are able to detectcect a huge host of fine details and differentiate a slew of small but important details between different tobaccos or grapes. To me, when I watch someone play 14.1, I can pick out all kinds of subtleties. Or in the case of 1pocket, watching a couple of nights of Orcullo and Chohan, I have already learned two subtle but personally important things that I went to the pool table today and immediately incorporated into my own game.

Some guys see stuff like that, others see paint drying. YMMV.

Lou Figueroa
 
Last edited:

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have always had a lot of respect for you on here, always keep it clean and usually you hit the nail on the head on most topics.


I feel shame for all of you who would rather choose to TEAR DOWN/ CALL AN ESTABLISHED PRO A LIAR(and all the industry people who witnessed it and signed off on it) than celebrate such an AWESOME LIFETIME ACCOMPLISHMENT!

Take it or leave it, it is my opinion and it will be my last post here on this topic.

Trent from Toledo


Thanks for the kind words, Trent.

But please, let me set you straight on a couple of things.

First, I have never called anyone in this discussion a liar. And in fact, in a recent post said I do not doubt JS put 626 balls into the pockets. Second, I have also said (and you can check this for yourself in my posting history), that in the words of the Gipper, one should, "Trust but verify." And I have also quoted the late astronomer, Carl Sagan, when he said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." That's not calling anyone a liar, it is asking for proof.

So I guess I will "leave" your opinion given the choice and the slim evidence to date.

Lou Figueroa
 
Last edited:

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the kind words, Trent.

But please, let me set you straight on a couple of things.

First, I have never called anyone in this discussion a liar. And in fact, in a recent post said I do not doubt JS put 626 balls into the pockets. But, I have also said (and you can check this for yourself in my posting history), that in the words of the Gripper, one should "Trust but verify." And I have also quoted the late astronomer, Carl Sagan, when he said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

So I guess I will "leave" your opinion given the choice and the evidence.

Lou Figueroa


Ok I lied, one more post to clarify something for Lou:

Lou,

Gentleman can agree to disagree and move on. I am learning that. I hope this all stops. It is terrible and I am shocked at how much time has been wasted on this, now I will stop wasting mine.

Trent from Toledo
 

UGOTDA7

Ban pending.....
Silver Member
Thanks for the kind words, Trent.

But please, let me set you straight on a couple of things.

First, I have never called anyone in this discussion a liar. And in fact, in a recent post said I do not doubt JS put 626 balls into the pockets. Second, I have also said (and you can check this for yourself in my posting history), that in the words of the Gripper, one should, "Trust but verify." And I have also quoted the late astronomer, Carl Sagan, when he said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." That's not calling anyone a liar, it is asking for proof.

So I guess I will "leave" your opinion given the choice and the slim evidence to date.

Lou Figueroa


I'm sure Reagan had a good hand shake...but he wasn't known as the Gripper Lol.

Anyway, congrats to John Schmidt - he's a fugging stud of epic proportions for accomplishing this, which I and many others to include respected champions trust he did despite how some ankle biters seem desperate to try and minimize it. Another legacy - he has one of the best lines on AZ in regard to uhh, a philosophical disagreement to put it politely, with a player and preferring to be eaten by a goat and shit off a cliff than put two dollars in his pocket.
 

arnaldo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think (and hope) it's a near-certainty that when John's 626 video is released, it will contain a terrifically informative rack-by-rack voice-over narrated by John as to his shot choices, difficulties, and his recently fine-tuned breaking strategies that helped in achieving the 626.. His newest breaking strategies and the rationale behind them is one of the many things I look forward to hearing about (and seeing) on the video when it's released.

Does anyone have opinions (or knowledge) about what he may have discovered or changed in regard to beneficially "breaking differently" as highlighted in red fonts in the below excerpt from the full Billiards Digest article about the 626:
--------------------------------------------------------

. . . The Arizona trip proved to be a turning point for Team Schmidt. While Schmidt authored another personal best - 464 - and ran through five more 300-ball runs, it was information away from the table that helped him turn a corner.

"I learned a ton of important things in Phoenix," Schmidt said.

For starters, Schmidt started to change habits, change playing strategies and even change his attire.

"I bought a pair of Hoka shoes," he said. "[Fellow pro] Mike Davis told me about them. They made a huge difference. My feet and legs didn't get nearly as tired. I also started eating differently. I started fasting and drinking these B-12 smoothies from Whole Foods. I started breaking the balls differently. I was improving every day by learning what worked and what didn't."

Just three weeks later, the Schmidts and Desmond were back in Monterey for Challenge IV, a previously scheduled one-month stint. . . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
Full Billiards Digest article here:

https://tinyurl.com/y44u655f

Thanks in advance for any useful opinions regarding my question, hopefully from folks with whom he may have discussed during leisure moments his new, recently-acquired "breaking differently" insights.

Arnaldo (Maybe I'll use the Chat option on his Facebook page and see if he wants to share something regarding my question about his "breaking differently", also any projection he may have about release plans for the video.)
 

game7808

Registered
Mosconi 526 ball run

Sometime in the 80's Roger Boucher former 4 time New England 14.1 champion played a series of 3 200 point exhibitions matches in Fitchburg MA against Irving Crane. I watched the first one held at the Saint Josephs club in Fitchburg. Roger was a little past his prime but still strong Mr. Crane was in his 70's but as he proved over the three nights still deadly. The place was packed and it was a close match with lots of great plays. St. Joes was Rogers home club so the crowd was on Rogers side. After he won Irving spend an hour taking questions from the crowd and telling stories of the old days. He seemed a little miffed that the crowd was on Rogers side and not his.

At some point somebody asked him about Mosconi 526 ball run and Irving got a little tense. He said that he thought it was really suspicious that first Mosconi had tied his 309 ball run that was the record at the time then claimed to have run 526. He also said he had run 309 on a 10 foot table while the Mosconi run was on a 8 foot table and should not have counted. He then speculated that the run might not have happened since he claimed all the people watching were Willie fans. People in the crowd pushed back on him a little on his comments and he moved on to something else. Just thought it was interesting that even 25 or 30 years after the Mosconi run Crane was still throwing shade on it. It seemed a little sad at the time.

Irving Crane won all 3 of those matches running 110 the second match and in the 90's on the third. Crane was in his seventies at the time.

There is no video of the Mosconi run does that mean it did not happen? I have watched the John Schmidt 424 ball run video and another high run video where he does a voice over explaining what he was thinking every shot. Anyone who watches those video's will like me have no doubt he ran 626. I don't need to see the video of either run to know that they happened both the Mosconi and the John Schmidt runs were amazing milestones in pool and should be treated so. But like the Crane story shows there will always be doubters. Just human nature I guess.
 

Chicken Feather

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mosconi & Schmidt

The amazing feat accomplished by John Schmidt just amplifies the feat accomplished by Willie Mosconi. :groucho:
 

bennettspring

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
14.1 record

Fantastic and John is such a great guy!!!!!!

Is there any record of Mosconi trying to set a record, other than his 526?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Fantastic and John is such a great guy!!!!!!

Is there any record of Mosconi trying to set a record, other than his 526?
As mentioned above, the top players of his era knew of and I'm pretty sure tried for both match and exhibition high runs. They went into the record book and newspapers of the time.

One story I heard is that Lassiter didn't much care for the guy who held the high run match record of 150 and would "accidently" take a 2-point foul on the opening break so he would have a chance to run 152.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I've come to the conclusion that those who refuse to accept John's accomplishments, also belong to the FLAT EARTH club, and would argue with anyone that the earth is NOT round, and in fact, the universe revolves around the earth and not the Sun. Way to support a pool player you flat earthers!!!
 
Top