I would just like to say it's an honor to have you posting here. Although we have disagreed in certain topics, I pay close attention to every word you guys say. You guys are what makes this forum enjoyable for most of us. The stories are fantastic. I would also like to note that Jay and Grady are two of my favorite Accustats commentators, along with Incardona and Nick Varner.
Grady, Jay Helfert, Freddy B.
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
If Freddie isn't on your favorite commentator list, you need to buy more tapes.
He goes into more detail than any other commentator. Billy and Danny D are good, but Grady and Freddie teach you more than anyone else.
For example, watch a couple one pocket matches and compare the commentary when the balls go uptable. Danny D tunes out and starts telling jokes or stories while the players do "nothing moves" or during the "boring" part of the game as he calls it. I like the stories but not when they take over from learning the game.
Freddie will try and give you the best shot and also goes into overall strategy during the slow parts. For example, when the balls are near the uptable pockets, sometimes its right to knock a ball in and sometimes its better to wait until your opponent knocks one in first. This is the kind of detail, the kind of one pocket knowledge that people want to acquire by watching tapes.
Most other commentators say "He wants to bring the balls back downtable..." and leave it at that. Freddie will tell you the best way to bring them down.
I think Jay is easily the best commentator who wasn't a top player. He is also the best new poster over the last year on this site, IMO.
It would be nice if we had a separate section in Ask the Pros for these guys, seems they post more than Archer, Harriman, Hillbilly, (who have their own sections) and about as much as McCready.
He goes into more detail than any other commentator. Billy and Danny D are good, but Grady and Freddie teach you more than anyone else.
For example, watch a couple one pocket matches and compare the commentary when the balls go uptable. Danny D tunes out and starts telling jokes or stories while the players do "nothing moves" or during the "boring" part of the game as he calls it. I like the stories but not when they take over from learning the game.
Freddie will try and give you the best shot and also goes into overall strategy during the slow parts. For example, when the balls are near the uptable pockets, sometimes its right to knock a ball in and sometimes its better to wait until your opponent knocks one in first. This is the kind of detail, the kind of one pocket knowledge that people want to acquire by watching tapes.
Most other commentators say "He wants to bring the balls back downtable..." and leave it at that. Freddie will tell you the best way to bring them down.
I think Jay is easily the best commentator who wasn't a top player. He is also the best new poster over the last year on this site, IMO.
It would be nice if we had a separate section in Ask the Pros for these guys, seems they post more than Archer, Harriman, Hillbilly, (who have their own sections) and about as much as McCready.
I've never seen a tape with Freddy commentating. I've seen alot of one-pocket tapes, and it's usually Grady, Billy, or Danny D.
bud green said:
i have a onepocket tape gabe owen vs cliff. cliff has control of the match the whole time, but in one game the balls go uptable and gabe gets a ball almost hanging and the score is like 0 to 0. before cliff shoots freddy says "give the guy the ball, its one stinken ball and he'll be 9 feet away from the closest ball" cliff tries to take the ball out and freddy disgustingly says "give the guy the stinken ball." cliff lost control of the balls on the take out and proceeds to lose the game from there. amazing insight.
Bud G. & Saurus,
You guys are EXACTLY right. We are privileged to have these players contribute. I hope they realize how appreciative most of us are that they are spending some time here. I hope the "squeaky wheel" trolls don't scare them away.
I hope Freddy will hang out in the AZB room at DCC next year - it was a great pleasure this year. I hope to see Jay H. participate as well.
You guys are EXACTLY right. We are privileged to have these players contribute. I hope they realize how appreciative most of us are that they are spending some time here. I hope the "squeaky wheel" trolls don't scare them away.
I hope Freddy will hang out in the AZB room at DCC next year - it was a great pleasure this year. I hope to see Jay H. participate as well.
Make rep points mean something!
Whats gets me is why do Grady and Freddie only have one rep bar and scrubs like me have 4? Come on everyone give it to em!
Whats gets me is why do Grady and Freddie only have one rep bar and scrubs like me have 4? Come on everyone give it to em!
I'm available
As snobbish and clannish as I am about who should be allowed to chonicle the events of "my" era, those two birds, Grady and Jay would certainly be okey dokey with me. I have no use for guys who were hiding behind a post, watching and sweating while the action events were occurring and then later talking about how "they were there." Jay and Grady are true journeyman with their dues paid up to eternity. I'm sure between us we could come up with enough material to fill a small book, or maybe a small library.
Call me with more.
the Beard
Write on, brothers!
Grady said:
As snobbish and clannish as I am about who should be allowed to chonicle the events of "my" era, those two birds, Grady and Jay would certainly be okey dokey with me. I have no use for guys who were hiding behind a post, watching and sweating while the action events were occurring and then later talking about how "they were there." Jay and Grady are true journeyman with their dues paid up to eternity. I'm sure between us we could come up with enough material to fill a small book, or maybe a small library.
Call me with more.
the Beard
Write on, brothers!
Outstanding
I agree with the rest; you three have contributed an astonishing amount to the pool world. Please keep sharing all your knowledge with us and the world. I deeply appreciate the time you men spend talking with us in this community.
I look up to you guys, not only as pool players, but as genuine contributors to the human cause. Fine examples of real men.
Thank You,
5ahead
PS: Ive read both Grady's and Freddie's books; if you guys get together to write, Ill send you pre-order money right now!
I agree with the rest; you three have contributed an astonishing amount to the pool world. Please keep sharing all your knowledge with us and the world. I deeply appreciate the time you men spend talking with us in this community.
I look up to you guys, not only as pool players, but as genuine contributors to the human cause. Fine examples of real men.
Thank You,
5ahead
PS: Ive read both Grady's and Freddie's books; if you guys get together to write, Ill send you pre-order money right now!
Agreed...cheers for the 3 journeymen muskateers 
I too, enjoy the stories from these legends. Relating tales of gambling in days gone by are treasured by your many fans on these boards. Keep 'em coming!
Linda
Linda
Their stories of an era of pool that was unsurpassed are priceless and are tremendously appreciated. I wasn't aware that Jay's background was that extensive and have really enjoyed his input lately. Awhile back I was able to attend a playing seminar that Grady put on at Hard Times. The pace was brisk and hard to chart.About 1/3 of the way through a guy that I knew asked and got premission to video tape everything. The highlight was Grady and "Little Al" Romero playing a game of 1Pocket and before each shot explaining their thinking behind the shot they were planning. Amazing the depth of their thinking! Afterwards several of the guys who played in a league with the guy offered to buy a copy of the guy's video taping at whatever reasonable price he might want and he turned us down flat!
Freddy, I bought your book and am really enjoying and learning from it. Great job!
I envy you guys having experienced an era in pool that will probably never be matched. Thanks for sharing.
Freddy, I bought your book and am really enjoying and learning from it. Great job!
I envy you guys having experienced an era in pool that will probably never be matched. Thanks for sharing.
bud green said:
Thanks for the kind words. I may not be a top player, in fact most people don't know I used to play. I have won matches over "shortstops" like Dan Louie, Mike Lebron, Jimmy Fusco, Keith and a few others you may not know. Oh and one Freddie the Beard in Kentucky playing Banks. lol
And I tortured a few hundred guys who choose to gamble with me, so I'm not exactly a novice. I can play a little. As recently as two years ago when I had my poolroom at Hollywood Park, I took on anyone who walked in the door. If you check the results from Derby City in 2003, you'll see my name in the final 50 in Banks.
Posting on AZ
Thanks to all of you. I really appreciate the kind words. I truly enjoy chatting on here, and rapping with Grady and Freddie.
About these two, let me say this. I first saw Grady play against Ronnie at the old Cue And Cushion in Norwalk in about 1967. Ronnie was giving Grady something like 9-7 and just playing great. Grady was laughing and joking and saying how this was an expensive One Pocket lesson. He hung in there and won his share of games. I was impressed with this gangly character.
After that I saw Grady play several times over the years and he was the one doing the torturing. He eventually became one of the premier One Pocket players in the country. Anyone who could go head to head with Hopkins and Varner and Buddy is a serious player. And Grady played a little 9-Ball also. His reputation for gambling was legendary and he probably played every top player of the last 30 years. I did play Grady in the One Pocket tourney at Red's and he got me in the money round. But I staked Ronnie and he won the tournament and four grand (beat Jeff Carter in the finals).
As for Freddie, we go back to the 60's in L.A hanging around the old Billiard Den and rubbing shoulders with stars like Telly Savalas, Don Adams, Vince Edwards, James Caan, John Brascia, Phil Specter and many more. He was by far the funniest and brightest guy I ever met in a poolroom. Freddies best game was always Banks, but he wasn't too shabby at One Pocket either. Freddie was never afraid to mix it up with anyone and bet it up too.
I did sneak up on Freddie in a Bank Pool tourney in Kentucky in about 1986.
He didn't know Billy had made the line I don't get to three in a Race To Five. Pissed me off and I practiced all night until about 9AM and got in dead stroke on those tables. Earl had beaten me in the first round. So later that evening I bet Billy 300 I would get to Three. As it turned out Freddie was the one who got to three.
Later on I was on the road with Danny Medina and he was beating everybody back then in Ohio and Indiana. We were good winners by the time we got to Chicago. We ran into Freddie at Chris's and he had a big backer who wanted us to play 500 a game full rack Banks with Freddie. Danny was playing super so I gave him the go ahead. He and Freddie played all night and we won five or six games.
Meanwhile the backer (Wayne?) picked on me. He asked me if I played. We ended up playing short rack banks for 50 a game and I pulverized him for about 15 or 20 games. It was brutal as Fats used to say. Do you remember all this Freddie?
The truth be known I was a lifetime shortstop. All the good players gave me weight, like the 7 Ball in 9-Ball or two or three balls in One Pocket. I used to practice with Ronnie for 10 or 20 a game and he gave me 8-4 and I don't think I ever won. But he never won much either. I won many games on my break. Cole gave me 9-6 and I broke him. Brian gave me 9-7 and I couldn't get there. When I traveled with Jimmy Reid, if we couldn't find a game he would try to give me the 8 and the break. He usually ended up very pissed and a little short.
One time at the Den, I said to a group of champions no one can give me the 5 Ball. Ed Kelly looked at me and said really. I regreted that remark an hour or so later. Next time I made any claims I asked for the 5 and the break. I was not a high roller. I just tried to make a living back then and did a good job of it. I pretty much avoided the top players.
The biggest game I have ever played was with Harry Platis for a thousand a game in 1988. I came out on top a couple times with Harry. But he beat me for a grand playing Banks in Louisville in 2003. We played a Race To Five and it went down to the last ball.
I've played a lot of pool with a lot of people over the years. Mostly games like $5 9-Ball and 10 or 20 dollar One Pocket in the 60' and 70's. My big games were a $200 set or $50 a game One Hole. But those were good games back then. I made my share of 400 to 1,000 dollar scores in the days when that was money.
My biggest score back then was when I beat a drug dealer and biker named DJ in Santa Barbara at a biker bar. He could play a little and I went in there with Bob Morris (also a good player). We watched him beat some shlub for 20 a game and then ask if anyone else wanted to play. He said he'd play anyone for 50 a game (8-Ball). I'm sitting right there and say, loud enough for DJ to hear, "I don't think he plays that good". Naturally, he heard me and jumped all over me. "What did you say?". "You want to play". etc. At first I'm quiet like I'm scared. Then finally I look at him and say okay i'll play you for 50 a game.
He throws his money on the table. And we start playing. I remember the first game, because I had to bank the 8 cross side to win. After that it was all downhill. We ended up playing a 100 a game and I won all his money and his Harley. I kept the title and he bought it back for 1,100 a few days later. DJ got busted a few weeks later and it was on the front page of the Santa Barbara newspaper. The cops came to my apartment to question me because my phone number was in his book.
Well that's enough for now. I did play a little pool in my day. As recently as this year I got the best of Tang and the Lizard playing banks on my table. But don't tell anyone please.
Thanks to all of you. I really appreciate the kind words. I truly enjoy chatting on here, and rapping with Grady and Freddie.
About these two, let me say this. I first saw Grady play against Ronnie at the old Cue And Cushion in Norwalk in about 1967. Ronnie was giving Grady something like 9-7 and just playing great. Grady was laughing and joking and saying how this was an expensive One Pocket lesson. He hung in there and won his share of games. I was impressed with this gangly character.
After that I saw Grady play several times over the years and he was the one doing the torturing. He eventually became one of the premier One Pocket players in the country. Anyone who could go head to head with Hopkins and Varner and Buddy is a serious player. And Grady played a little 9-Ball also. His reputation for gambling was legendary and he probably played every top player of the last 30 years. I did play Grady in the One Pocket tourney at Red's and he got me in the money round. But I staked Ronnie and he won the tournament and four grand (beat Jeff Carter in the finals).
As for Freddie, we go back to the 60's in L.A hanging around the old Billiard Den and rubbing shoulders with stars like Telly Savalas, Don Adams, Vince Edwards, James Caan, John Brascia, Phil Specter and many more. He was by far the funniest and brightest guy I ever met in a poolroom. Freddies best game was always Banks, but he wasn't too shabby at One Pocket either. Freddie was never afraid to mix it up with anyone and bet it up too.
I did sneak up on Freddie in a Bank Pool tourney in Kentucky in about 1986.
He didn't know Billy had made the line I don't get to three in a Race To Five. Pissed me off and I practiced all night until about 9AM and got in dead stroke on those tables. Earl had beaten me in the first round. So later that evening I bet Billy 300 I would get to Three. As it turned out Freddie was the one who got to three.
Later on I was on the road with Danny Medina and he was beating everybody back then in Ohio and Indiana. We were good winners by the time we got to Chicago. We ran into Freddie at Chris's and he had a big backer who wanted us to play 500 a game full rack Banks with Freddie. Danny was playing super so I gave him the go ahead. He and Freddie played all night and we won five or six games.
Meanwhile the backer (Wayne?) picked on me. He asked me if I played. We ended up playing short rack banks for 50 a game and I pulverized him for about 15 or 20 games. It was brutal as Fats used to say. Do you remember all this Freddie?
The truth be known I was a lifetime shortstop. All the good players gave me weight, like the 7 Ball in 9-Ball or two or three balls in One Pocket. I used to practice with Ronnie for 10 or 20 a game and he gave me 8-4 and I don't think I ever won. But he never won much either. I won many games on my break. Cole gave me 9-6 and I broke him. Brian gave me 9-7 and I couldn't get there. When I traveled with Jimmy Reid, if we couldn't find a game he would try to give me the 8 and the break. He usually ended up very pissed and a little short.
One time at the Den, I said to a group of champions no one can give me the 5 Ball. Ed Kelly looked at me and said really. I regreted that remark an hour or so later. Next time I made any claims I asked for the 5 and the break. I was not a high roller. I just tried to make a living back then and did a good job of it. I pretty much avoided the top players.
The biggest game I have ever played was with Harry Platis for a thousand a game in 1988. I came out on top a couple times with Harry. But he beat me for a grand playing Banks in Louisville in 2003. We played a Race To Five and it went down to the last ball.
I've played a lot of pool with a lot of people over the years. Mostly games like $5 9-Ball and 10 or 20 dollar One Pocket in the 60' and 70's. My big games were a $200 set or $50 a game One Hole. But those were good games back then. I made my share of 400 to 1,000 dollar scores in the days when that was money.
My biggest score back then was when I beat a drug dealer and biker named DJ in Santa Barbara at a biker bar. He could play a little and I went in there with Bob Morris (also a good player). We watched him beat some shlub for 20 a game and then ask if anyone else wanted to play. He said he'd play anyone for 50 a game (8-Ball). I'm sitting right there and say, loud enough for DJ to hear, "I don't think he plays that good". Naturally, he heard me and jumped all over me. "What did you say?". "You want to play". etc. At first I'm quiet like I'm scared. Then finally I look at him and say okay i'll play you for 50 a game.
He throws his money on the table. And we start playing. I remember the first game, because I had to bank the 8 cross side to win. After that it was all downhill. We ended up playing a 100 a game and I won all his money and his Harley. I kept the title and he bought it back for 1,100 a few days later. DJ got busted a few weeks later and it was on the front page of the Santa Barbara newspaper. The cops came to my apartment to question me because my phone number was in his book.
Well that's enough for now. I did play a little pool in my day. As recently as this year I got the best of Tang and the Lizard playing banks on my table. But don't tell anyone please.
jay helfert said:
Ronnie Allen is a name that I remember hearing over and over again in my younger days. Most players considered him a one-pocket legend, but it was his gift of gab that some found entertaining. If there was EVER a book to be written, Ronnie Allen's life story would make for some GREAT reading. As some are up in arms about the IPT player selection of the original 150, in my most humble opinion not having Ronnie Allen included on the list is a gross omission. Unfortunately, Ronnie, like MANY other older players, does not have a computer and most likely heard about the IPT after the fact.
When you look at the list of the 150 IPT players, Ronnie Allen is very deserving to be on this list with his peers, Billy I., Danny D., Fuscos, et cetera. When I think of one-pocket greats, Ronnie Allen's name is tops in my book. JMHO, FWIW.
jay helfert said:
Jeff Carter is another player whose name pops up as winning many a major tournament in the '80s. What is he doing these days? Just curious.
jay helfert said:
Vince Edwards' last wife was my cousin Janet from Virginia. She was Miss Virginia years ago and was very pretty, but quite ambitious. She moved to Hollywood and got herself a few acting gigs on some sit-coms. Then she met Vince and they married. He did enjoy a little gamble from time to time (LOL). Matter of fact, Keith told me he used to see Vince at the horse racetrack all the time, and they were friends. Each year there is an Italian Awards Dinner for prominent Italian Americans here in D.C., and Vince Edwards was invited to each one. I only met him a few times, but he sure was generous to my family, gifting Janet's aunt (my birth mother)with very nice presents. After he passed, my cousin Janet never remarried.
I've heard MANY stories about that Billiard Den and would love to read more! That pool room seemed to attract quite a few celebrities in its day. Keifer Sutherland is another actor who enjoys a little gamble and would back players from time to time, from what I have been told.
JAM
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Yeah I heard Keifer Sutherland staked Parica. I don't remember if I read that in 'Playing off the Rail' or if someone told me that. I heard he isn't too bad of a player himself.