How do the pro's support themselves

[JamisonNeu]

I think I could get by pretty well on $5000/month after taxes, but a small nit: while he might not pay taxes on the money, unless there is some kind of very special arrangement, I think that is taxable income.

I tried to pay taxes on my winnings and sponsor monies a couple of years ago. When on the phone with the IRS they told me that pool is a hobbie and is considered unearned income, until the third consecutive year you can not pay taxes.

Snooker is considered a sport and therfore winnings are taxable. They did say if you make a certain amount in one day it would be taxable or if you are leaving the USA with a certain amount of winnings... for the most part pool is not considered a job by uncle sam, so you don't get to pay your taxes until the third year of profit in a row.

5000 a month isn't enough for sam to blink your way. There are gamblers out there playing for 100,000 k on one hand of black jack ect. Call the IRS they have a list of all the jobs that can be had and pool is not considered a profession, snooker is, pool is not. Glad it's not my fault.

Jamison

 

[JAM]

I tried to pay taxes on my winnings and sponsor monies a couple of years ago. When on the phone with the IRS they told me that pool is a hobbie and is considered unearned income, until the third consecutive year you can not pay taxes.

Snooker is considered a sport and therfore winnings are taxable. They did say if you make a certain amount in one day it would be taxable or if you are leaving the USA with a certain amount of winnings... for the most part pool is not considered a job by uncle sam, so you don't get to pay your taxes until the third year of profit in a row.

5000 a month isn't enough for sam to blink your way. There are gamblers out there playing for 100,000 k on one hand of black jack ect. Call the IRS they have a list of all the jobs that can be had and pool is not considered a profession, snooker is, pool is not. Glad it's not my fault.

Jamison

I did not know that. I hope the IRS won't be calling Keith about his designated occupation. He put "professional pool player." He had to file because he received several 1099 forms. Man, I hate taxes and the unintelligible IRS Code.

JAM

 

[JamisonNeu]

I did not know that. I hope the IRS won't be calling Keith about his designated occupation. He put "professional pool player." He had to file because he received several 1099 forms. Man, I hate taxes and the unintelligible IRS Code.

JAM

Too much money on paper in one year will do that to you. It can be stretched a little. If you factor in the amount of day's you have to attend the job to get the pay. Just for an example of how this has worked for me.

I got a few 1099 from some tourney's and since each one of them is it's own event... I spent five days to get $1500 on one 1099. I only made 300 a day and after my daily expences, I could easily claim no money earned.
un-earned income.

Tell Keith, I want my 2 dollars and that I never knocked his tub either, he implied I had, before I knew what that phrase meant. If you would Jam tell him "His fish wanted a new stream with a better looking current."

Jamison

 

[Fatboy]

What I miss is the poolroom being the center of action, games-making, camaraderie, and pool gossip. Nowadays much of the pool gossip is online, except for distinctly local news. The games-making and the action has been lost significantly to casinos, online gambling, lotteries, etc. Here on the Dixie Riviera, casino gambling has reduced gambling on pool to a very slow crawl. When men don't get together to compete with one another, then excellence in pool diminishes.



Doc

i agree, now the center of action is a keyboard....so it seems. You also make a good point too, casinos dont help either, pool in vegas has awalys been bad, and-because of the casinos now that all most every state has some sort of gaming it puts more pressure on pool, and online poker. its too much work to go to the pool room, where before if you wanted something more than TV you HAD to go somewhere-I wonder if bowling is suffering too?

 

[Fatboy]

The sad irony of this is that while the general viewing audiences apparently find something as endlessly fascinating as pool boring, NASCAR boils down to watching a lot of fast cars drive around in circles. Don't get me wrong, I grew up with an overdeveloped fondness for the internal combustion engine, and I enjoy a wide variety of automotive competition, but NASCAR puts me to sleep. In one respect, it's a lot like playing pool—fascinating to do, but not so much fun to watch.

I think I understand the attraction though. Everyone drives a car, almost every day, and (unfortunately)a good number of them fancy themselves to be competitive drivers, judging from the extreme tailgating and lane-changing on the freeways. NASCAR also provides big events for people to attend, which is probably more entertaining than the race itself.

Ken

i dont get NASCAR, I have been to the races a few times and only liked it once i was sitting on top of the tool box in pit raod next to the team owner for 1/4 of the race, that was the dead nuts, I had to move when Reggie Jackson came back, If you listen on the radio's to a team, the pit stragity is about what it all boils down too, and a good crew chief. I got schooled that day I was there, they are up to 39 races a year now-i think.

If pool had enough of an audience then it would feed on itself like NASCAR did, i'm not suggesting that pool will be nearly as popular but a little something to get the ball rolling would be great,

Alan Hopkins who I believe to be trustworthy-I dont knoww him. has a good idea with the qualifyer events, but nobody but a handful of guys are going to post up 2K or 5K to be in the tournment(i dont know the math on his idea) sure a few stake horses will help but there arnt 500 real stake horses in america(what do you think? less than 500?), so to build his field there will have to be a zillion qualifyers-a long slow process and an accounting nightmare, collecting the money and making sure the guy who won gets credited-it will require a strong database, then staying in-touch with the qualifyers, i run a similar business a shopping club with lots of customers(similar in the sence we have to track each account or in Alans case players who won) and while it sounds easy it isnt-to make it error free and that will be costly. There just isnt enough interest in most parts of the country to make it work, i hate to say it but it sounds like a dream to me, the more i think of it, i hope i'm wrong.

 

[JAM]

I never knew that, Jennie. Come to think of it, they each would have been excellent for that part. I wonder if, owing to the then current interest in Minn. Fats, that they preferred an overweight pool player, thereby giving points to Mizerak?

Doc

Could be, thinking fat people are jolly.

As I am reading these older pool media items, especially in the 1970's, there are many Minnesota Fats articles, pictures, et cetera.

The so-called "feud" with Willie Mosconi was a great media ploy, and the audiences loved it. Mosconi, on the other hand, one time put ear plugs in his ears when they were putting on an exhibition together. Even though the reserved Willie Mosconi acted as though it annoyed him, I think he may have appreciated the publicity that their feud created. It attracted mainstream America and not just pool players, something that is sorely missing today. Willie represented the gentleman player characteristic of pool, and Fats, on the other hand, never tried to hide the fact that he was a pool hustler. Two opposites, but yet it worked.

Steve Mizerak brought pool into mainstream America with the Miller commercials. Though Jeanette Lee is probably the most recognizeable American pool player today -- and I know she works very hard to promote pool -- there still isn't a pool personality, so to speak, in the year 2007 to attract the non-pool-playing public. There is a hole there, if you will, that needs to be filled, I think.

How about Minnesota Fats' epitaph on his tombstone?! It reads: Beat everybody living on Earth. Now, St. Peter, rack ’em up.
I just love this guy!

JAM

 

[uwate]

Pretty tough sport to make a living. Just go to any large tournament and you will see 10 guys making a good living and 200 fighting for a chance to make rent and gas money. And all 210 guys will give you and me the last 4. Brutal...

 

[DGunter]

Pretty tough sport to make a living. Just go to any large tournament and you will see 10 guys making a good living and 200 fighting for a chance to make rent and gas money. And all 210 guys will give you and me the last 4. Brutal...

Quoted for truth...

I have long since come to grips with the fact that my skill level for now and the forseeable future will never be high enough to make a living playing this game. Still fun though...perhaps even more fun now that I play for enjoyment and the thrill of competition rather than focusing on the big golden payout in the sky.

 

[JamisonNeu]

Here is the deal! Pool is easy and anyone can play it. It will never pay well again, for that reason. Now that equipment is near perfect people sit around and say I can do that, big deal. Since this is the veiw of the crowd their is no pizzazz in watching grown dorks play a kids game. (NOT all but most) The reason it used to pay well is because it was respected by the masses. They knew the line between good and great not everyoine can run 200 balls without missing. 9 on 9 ft now that's a different story.

The games were harder the tables were harder and a guy had to be good to run balls. Now it's about who plays the first safety and who get's good breaks. If they impossed a no intentional safety rule and breaker shoots no matter what more people would respect pool. For now we get to watch some dorky players bump balls to the rail, how exiting I'll pay money to watch that...lol

The world of pool needs a spine it needs to grow a pair and not have a repeat of women's snooker. Too proper means no veiwers. Have you ever watched a rated G sport besides pool? This sport has been credited for having the most drug users and riff raff of all games and then the pro's try and act like they are in pre school. We know it's fake and so does everyone else.

Golly gee look at that bank shot has no place in the modern world. Take some time to listen to the way a modern ten year old talks. Do you think he think's it's dorky to watch pool? Rated G is killing the pool world. It needs to have a few bleep's and some distorted middle fingers maybe even a punch thrown here and there that's what the masses want. Nowadays violence and chaos this is afterall the truth. They can see that it's all an act to sell tables.

In matters of style swim with the current.
Thomas Jefferson

People think the way of the past is right, well wrong it's always been the same you are the one that changes, with age comes fear of death and violence. The past was violent the future is going to be violent and that is what sells sex, drugs and violence (RAP). You know, the truth behind all the lies. Just start telling the truth about the players and that will sell.

Don't just say one of the greatest players of all time, tell them about his cokaine days and swinger ways, that will sell. Tell them about the kids they left behind to be gay. Tell them about how drunk he was the day he beat his wife. Tell them the truth and it will set pool free. Give them what they want not what makes you look good.

Your's truthfully,
Jamison

 

[BigDaddyInc.]

Well pool is very touched up and they try to make it look pretty yes they should be themselves it's way more entertaining. And on a different note i thought internet gambling was banned by G. Bush not so long ago and i was rather upset about that. Maybe they have figured out how to play using a foriegn bank account? I don't know (not that smart with foriegn banking.)

 

[diller47]

theres a pretty good chance that many of them still live off their stakehorses,
lol

 

[Russ Chewning]

I completely agree. Billiard Club Network was stupid to replace Grady. I figure they probably did it because Grady is not as camera friendly as Billy or Jim Wych, (Sorry Grady.. ), but that is short sighted, IMHO.

Pool is a gritty game. Show that to the public. Let Grady get on the mic and tell some dutty dutty stories, as far as the FCC will allow him to go.

The pool world is retarded, to try to quash the best selling point it has. Who of us hasn't seen some crazy @ss SHIZNIT in a pool hall?

Russ

 

[Ronoh]

I'm sorry, but...

Center of the Universe you are not

Here is the deal! Pool is easy and anyone can play it. It will never pay well again, for that reason. Now that equipment is near perfect people sit around and say I can do that, big deal. Since this is the veiw of the crowd their is no pizzazz in watching grown dorks play a kids game. (NOT all but most) The reason it used to pay well is because it was respected by the masses. They knew the line between good and great not everyoine can run 200 balls without missing. 9 on 9 ft now that's a different story.

The games were harder the tables were harder and a guy had to be good to run balls. Now it's about who plays the first safety and who get's good breaks. If they impossed a no intentional safety rule and breaker shoots no matter what more people would respect pool. For now we get to watch some dorky players bump balls to the rail, how exiting I'll pay money to watch that...lol

The world of pool needs a spine it needs to grow a pair and not have a repeat of women's snooker. Too proper means no veiwers. Have you ever watched a rated G sport besides pool? This sport has been credited for having the most drug users and riff raff of all games and then the pro's try and act like they are in pre school. We know it's fake and so does everyone else.

Golly gee look at that bank shot has no place in the modern world. Take some time to listen to the way a modern ten year old talks. Do you think he think's it's dorky to watch pool? Rated G is killing the pool world. It needs to have a few bleep's and some distorted middle fingers maybe even a punch thrown here and there that's what the masses want. Nowadays violence and chaos this is afterall the truth. They can see that it's all an act to sell tables.

In matters of style swim with the current.
Thomas Jefferson

People think the way of the past is right, well wrong it's always been the same you are the one that changes, with age comes fear of death and violence. The past was violent the future is going to be violent and that is what sells sex, drugs and violence (RAP). You know, the truth behind all the lies. Just start telling the truth about the players and that will sell.

Don't just say one of the greatest players of all time, tell them about his cokaine days and swinger ways, that will sell. Tell them about the kids they left behind to be gay. Tell them about how drunk he was the day he beat his wife. Tell them the truth and it will set pool free. Give them what they want not what makes you look good.

Your's truthfully,
Jamison

You might want to look in the mirror.

I already know I'm an asshole. Just wanting to make sure I'm not the only one.

 

[JamisonNeu]

Center of the Universe you are not



You might want to look in the mirror.

I already know I'm an asshole. Just wanting to make sure I'm not the only one.

Your not, I am, not the center of the universe, but a much bigger a@#hole than you could ever inspire to be. I can't remember the last time I looked in a mirror, never thought it was very important to look in a mirror. That is for the outside of person, I could care less what I look like in someone else's eyes.

My point is, being a polished piece of crap isn't any better than a smelly piece of crap.

Jamison

 

[fish on]

Bad tax Advice!!

[Taxes will be payed on winnings period!!!They withheld 20% IPT players( big winners )money.
Even if they don't withhold you are still obligated to pay taxes on this money.
You are giving bad advice!
This can cause serious financial problems for people who don't report this as income. You will pay penalties , Interest, and IRS will get all the money due . You misunderstood what IRS said.
They were trying to explain when withholding is mandated. Withholding has absolutely no impact on your tax responsibilites!!!
FYI :You can also be subject to additional local and state taxes, as they all share information.
That 1099 says pay taxes on this money, as I am reporting this as taxable income to IRS.

mQUOTE=JamisonNeu]I tried to pay taxes on my winnings and sponsor monies a couple of years ago. When on the phone with the IRS they told me that pool is a hobbie and is considered unearned income, until the third consecutive year you can not pay taxes.

Snooker is considered a sport and therfore winnings are taxable. They did say if you make a certain amount in one day it would be taxable or if you are leaving the USA with a certain amount of winnings... for the most part pool is not considered a job by uncle sam, so you don't get to pay your taxes until the third year of profit in a row.

5000 a month isn't enough for sam to blink your way. There are gamblers out there playing for 100,000 k on one hand of black jack ect. Call the IRS they have a list of all the jobs that can be had and pool is not considered a profession, snooker is, pool is not. Glad it's not my fault.

Jamison[/QUOTE]

 

[diller47]

Here is the deal! Pool is easy and anyone can play it. It will never pay well again, for that reason. Now that equipment is near perfect people sit around and say I can do that, big deal. Since this is the veiw of the crowd their is no pizzazz in watching grown dorks play a kids game. (NOT all but most) The reason it used to pay well is because it was respected by the masses. They knew the line between good and great not everyoine can run 200 balls without missing. 9 on 9 ft now that's a different story.

The games were harder the tables were harder and a guy had to be good to run balls. Now it's about who plays the first safety and who get's good breaks. If they impossed a no intentional safety rule and breaker shoots no matter what more people would respect pool. For now we get to watch some dorky players bump balls to the rail, how exiting I'll pay money to watch that...lol

The world of pool needs a spine it needs to grow a pair and not have a repeat of women's snooker. Too proper means no veiwers. Have you ever watched a rated G sport besides pool? This sport has been credited for having the most drug users and riff raff of all games and then the pro's try and act like they are in pre school. We know it's fake and so does everyone else.

Golly gee look at that bank shot has no place in the modern world. Take some time to listen to the way a modern ten year old talks. Do you think he think's it's dorky to watch pool? Rated G is killing the pool world. It needs to have a few bleep's and some distorted middle fingers maybe even a punch thrown here and there that's what the masses want. Nowadays violence and chaos this is afterall the truth. They can see that it's all an act to sell tables.

In matters of style swim with the current.
Thomas Jefferson

People think the way of the past is right, well wrong it's always been the same you are the one that changes, with age comes fear of death and violence. The past was violent the future is going to be violent and that is what sells sex, drugs and violence (RAP). You know, the truth behind all the lies. Just start telling the truth about the players and that will sell.

Don't just say one of the greatest players of all time, tell them about his cokaine days and swinger ways, that will sell. Tell them about the kids they left behind to be gay. Tell them about how drunk he was the day he beat his wife. Tell them the truth and it will set pool free. Give them what they want not what makes you look good.

Your's truthfully,
Jamison

very well said

 

[JamisonNeu]

[Taxes will be payed on winnings period!!!They withheld 20% IPT players( big winners )money.
Even if they don't withhold you are still obligated to pay taxes on this money.
You are giving bad advice!
This can cause serious financial problems for people who don't report this as income. You will pay penalties , Interest, and IRS will get all the money due . You misunderstood what IRS said.
They were trying to explain when withholding is mandated. Withholding has absolutely no impact on your tax responsibilites!!!
FYI :You can also be subject to additional local and state taxes, as they all share information.
That 1099 says pay taxes on this money, as I am reporting this as taxable income to IRS.

It worked for me. $10,000+ in one tourney is probably taxable. Most however at that time could be tax free if you went to the right accountant. You get what you pay for. A guy on the board in the WPA is the guy that told me about it first. (unearned income)
I checked with the woman who did my taxes she said the same thing. When I didn't believe either of them I called the IRS and they told me the same thing and about pool not being a recognized job in the USA. I could be wrong today, but at that time it was the way it was. I am not giving advise I am shareing my experience. If it helps good, if not good, not my problem either way.

Jamison

 

[Black-Balled]

The sad irony of this is that while the general viewing audiences apparently find something as endlessly fascinating as pool boring, ...—fascinating to do, but not so much fun to watch.
Ken

Excellent post. My sentiment exactly...nobody cares, except us pool-players!

 

[Maniac]

Here is the deal! Pool is easy and anyone can play it. It will never pay well again, for that reason. Now that equipment is near perfect people sit around and say I can do that, big deal. Since this is the veiw of the crowd their is no pizzazz in watching grown dorks play a kids game. (NOT all but most) The reason it used to pay well is because it was respected by the masses. They knew the line between good and great not everyoine can run 200 balls without missing. 9 on 9 ft now that's a different story.

The games were harder the tables were harder and a guy had to be good to run balls. Now it's about who plays the first safety and who get's good breaks. If they impossed a no intentional safety rule and breaker shoots no matter what more people would respect pool. For now we get to watch some dorky players bump balls to the rail, how exiting I'll pay money to watch that...lol

I mostly agree with this part of your post. Without a fan base professional pool is never gonna pay-out big money. And IMO, 9-ball is part of the problem. I recently watched (on ESPN) a 9-ball tournament where neither player could manage a break-and-run (I think there was two in the race to seven). Geez, I can go down to my local poolhall and see LOTS of breaks-and-runs in a nights action. Hell, as bad as I play, I even manage one myself every now and then. So who would want to pay any kind of money to watch the "pros" shoot 9-ball when some damn good action is happening right in your very hometown at your local poolhall and it's FREE to watch??? They need to find a game that is more challenging than 9-ball IMO. Now, when they did the Skins (again, on ESPN) format and awarded ball-in-hand for a missed shot, that was different. No safety play, all offense. I don't know that this is the answer, but at least it's a step in the right direction. They gotta come up with SOMETHING that piques the interest of the average fan (re: non-pool playing fan). I don't know what the answer is to getting pro players paid better, but I can say this: Watching the current state of tournament action is boring to me, and I love and respect the game as much as many persons on this forum. I hope someday this all gets worked out!!!

Maniac

 

[mikeiniowa]

pool is boring to watch

there I said it. I am also a pool addict. I play as much as I can. Every book every video in search of getting better.

I was in vegas last week and had the chance to watch the pros as much as I wanted. I went once. It was late at night and I was very tired. I only watched about an hour and left and never went again. and I am a pool junkie. if I cant watch pool for a very long time without the interaction of the players how can john q public watch on espn? they cant and that is why nobody does.

I love to play 9 ball but I think it is part of the problem. the dumbing down of the sport. too many safeties, alt. break both are bad for the viewer. bring back roll outs and winner breaks lets see some packages and great aggressive shots.

that would make for better tv and reduce the luck factor.